Specific recommendation on bike - Touring and Track
Discussion
Andybow said:
The problem I had with bikes like the k1300s and ZZR etc is they are great bikes but I tended to cruise at 130 everywhere and apparently the old bill don’t like that, also more of a lump when you’re abroad in the mountains and smaller roads
^ agreedThe K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
spareparts said:
^ agreed
The K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
Good shout Ade, great bike the RS, strange why there isn’t more aboutThe K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
Andybow said:
spareparts said:
^ agreed
The K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
Good shout Ade, great bike the RS, strange why there isn’t more aboutThe K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
The R1200RS is a good shoot, but don't forget about the ZZR little brother, aka Z1000SX.
I went around Corsica two months ago and it did very well. It is no lightweight at 230kgs but it's still light enough to be thrown around corners, and you can put some hard luggage on it.
It's just such a shame that there are now very few offers on this segment, everybody is doing trails but I'm a bit short and I just don't like the position :/
I went around Corsica two months ago and it did very well. It is no lightweight at 230kgs but it's still light enough to be thrown around corners, and you can put some hard luggage on it.
It's just such a shame that there are now very few offers on this segment, everybody is doing trails but I'm a bit short and I just don't like the position :/
6pi said:
The R1200RS is a good shoot, but don't forget about the ZZR little brother, aka Z1000SX.
Z1000SX also a nice looking bike. Isn’t it one of Kawasaki’s best sellers? Key downside for me as a touring bike is the chain drive, and lack of BMW modcons which come as standard on the SE version of the R1200RS; plus the far better BMW Motorrad network when touring around Europe should you need if anything goes wrong.
spareparts said:
Andybow said:
spareparts said:
^ agreed
The K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
Good shout Ade, great bike the RS, strange why there isn’t more aboutThe K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
Triumph were doing super cheap, fully loaded Sprint GTs a little while back, are there any of them left for sale?
From what i remember they were full colour coded luggage, exhaust, comfort seat, heated grips etc for £8k brand new! one of my friends has one and he loves it.
ETA:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Sprint-GT-SE/23...
From what i remember they were full colour coded luggage, exhaust, comfort seat, heated grips etc for £8k brand new! one of my friends has one and he loves it.
ETA:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Sprint-GT-SE/23...
Edited by AceOfHearts on Tuesday 13th November 08:42
spareparts said:
Andybow said:
spareparts said:
^ agreed
The K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
Good shout Ade, great bike the RS, strange why there isn’t more aboutThe K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
I'd have a KTM SD1290 GT in preference to a R1200RS any day.
black-k1 said:
spareparts said:
Andybow said:
spareparts said:
^ agreed
The K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
Good shout Ade, great bike the RS, strange why there isn’t more aboutThe K13s is a lovely bike to own with a low standover height and good weather protection. It is a great bike for touring - especially if you enjoy motorways and such like. When you push it in the twisties, however, it’s geometry, weight, and chassis dynamics shout stability, and you need to muscle it to hustle. On hindsight after my K13S, I think the K13GT is more appealing as a proper tourer if you want the same drivetrain. But they are still heavy machines that feel their weight.
After the H2, I think the K13 engine will feel like it’s trying too hard... you could probably set the H2 up for touring duties and get more compared to the K13.
For what you are looking for, I think the R1200RS is a great option. ChipChap has toured on his with me, and it is a great bike with low standover height, great dynamics in the twisties, and the R1200 boxer is as fast as you want it for road riding. You can find them in budget.
I'd have a KTM SD1290 GT in preference to a R1200RS any day.
spareparts said:
You have never thought well of the R1200 platform from a performance perspective and yet most of Europe and global sales would say otherwise based on sales alone. I have yet to see someone need more than the R1200's 130bhp when touring or fast road riding. Maybe the Ducati Supersport series is a natural competitor to the R1200RS. I do not think KTM offer a natural competitor, especially at the price point of the R1200RS. Can you get a SD1290GT for 8k? Apart from horsepower output at top of the rev range, what does the Ducati/KTM offer that the BMW does not?
Having ridden both the R1200RS and the SD1290 GT reasonably recently I’d suggest the RS is lacking in quite a lot. While the very low rev characteristics of the RS are better than those of the KTM, the KTM wipes the floor with the RS everywhere else. While I accept that for most road use, large power outputs are mostly unused, in the cases of rapid overtakes and auotbahn cruising, the RS is totally out gunned. For general riding the SD is lighter, has more torque and is generally “more fun”. (Has a higher totally unscientific “smiles per mile” rating
) It’s quicker to flick through the corners yet lacks none of the RSs stability. The only place the RS wins for me is in overall weather protection and the fact it’s a bit cheaper than the SD when new. Given the requirement for the thread is for “Specific recommendation on bike - Touring and Track” I’d suggest that you may consider the RS to be close to the SD in the touring requirements but the SD will knock spots off the RS on the track.
The RS is a great bike if performance is not your main requirement but, it doesn’t perform any better than a GS yet has few of the GS “advantages”, from telelever front end to Jedi endorsement.
If the adventure look is not your thing and you want to load the Mrs on the back, set off across Europe but are not interested in “having a blast” then the RS offers a sporty, more fun alternative to the RT or the likes of an FJR. If you’re looking for a bike you can ride to the Alps comfortably, with all your luggage, blasting down the Autobahns at silly mph, can then run with the sports bikes up and down the passes before returning for a track day or 2 then KTM wins hands down.
As for the price requirement of £8k from earlier in the thread, then you might just find a SD at that price but you’d also struggle to get an RS for that sort of money.
Ok here is my outlook on this. Like the OP and a number of others I too have a fast bike in the garage, however my "go to" bike always seems to be the R1200RS and perhaps that says something about the useability of the bike.
I can have my choice of H2 SX SE or SE Plus / KTM 1290GT / ZZR1400 / et all but I don't even look at them [much] and why is that then ?
Can you track one. Yes but it will scrape and it may even wallow a bit but its not a ZX10RR.
Mine has been to Hilltop. Not the one in Walking Dead but the one near Leicester. Its a Euro 3 and has been mapped. It makes terrific torque.
Is it a 1290GT no so therefore it just wont accelerate with one end of. However ask 3DP or Spareparts if they can ride away from me when I am on the RS ? Answer is they can ride away from me whatever they are riding [lol]
It is difficult to define a segment where the RS fits however what I do know is that I have had mine almost 30 months now and I really cannot see what I would change it for. I toyed with an H2 SX SE and DWR remap/decat and thought 225 bhp at the tyre would be fun but then I realised that I get all my fun in the twisties or from covering distance.
This year we did 3300 miles in 13.5 days of riding down as far as Sarajevo. Bike was faultless. Then I did 6 days / 1800 miles solo to The Scottish Highlands. 5000 miles like it was nothing.
The R1250RS will be here in spring. I will borrow one and run it on the dyno to compare power curves. I don't imagine it will offer much more in exchange for my £7,000 plus my bike.
I can have my choice of H2 SX SE or SE Plus / KTM 1290GT / ZZR1400 / et all but I don't even look at them [much] and why is that then ?
- Bearing in mind that I am coming up 61 and am a fat knacker.
- BMW is comfortable for 400 mile days. Multiple days on the trot too.
- BMW has a 200 mile tank range.
- BMW has proper integrated QS luggage or fitted inner bags.
- BMW has the best heated grips of any make. Both in function and looks. Those Oxford things are s
te to look at. - BMW has integrated idrive thingy. Shows everything on the Nav 6 screen
- BMW has a factory integrated Nav holder and info.
- BMW Nav acts as a bridge for Spotify/Telephone/Navigation/SMS etc
- BMW has sports bike tyre sizes if that's your fancy
- BMW has electronic suspension
- BMW have dealers everywhere
- BMW has great European support
- BMW is not Orange or Green and has a face that more than its own mother could love.
- BMW does not suffer from depreciation of such epic proportions as some makes. Also they tend not to "Fire Sale them" so RV's hold up
Can you track one. Yes but it will scrape and it may even wallow a bit but its not a ZX10RR.
Mine has been to Hilltop. Not the one in Walking Dead but the one near Leicester. Its a Euro 3 and has been mapped. It makes terrific torque.
Is it a 1290GT no so therefore it just wont accelerate with one end of. However ask 3DP or Spareparts if they can ride away from me when I am on the RS ? Answer is they can ride away from me whatever they are riding [lol]
It is difficult to define a segment where the RS fits however what I do know is that I have had mine almost 30 months now and I really cannot see what I would change it for. I toyed with an H2 SX SE and DWR remap/decat and thought 225 bhp at the tyre would be fun but then I realised that I get all my fun in the twisties or from covering distance.
This year we did 3300 miles in 13.5 days of riding down as far as Sarajevo. Bike was faultless. Then I did 6 days / 1800 miles solo to The Scottish Highlands. 5000 miles like it was nothing.
The R1250RS will be here in spring. I will borrow one and run it on the dyno to compare power curves. I don't imagine it will offer much more in exchange for my £7,000 plus my bike.
Some lovely responses here. I get where most are coming from, although it is funny reading Black-K1 arguing for a chain drive 160bhp KTM and Spareparts arguing that a fat shafty BM with 125bhp is all you need.... 
Anyhoo FWIW, my 2 pence:
With a modified H2, most other things will feel flaccid, so perhaps character, practicality and fun need to be important.
I'm very close to buying an MT10 new at the moment. With a comfort seat they are all day comfortable, they are laugh out loud fun, have a decent slug of power, but more importantly feel like they are over-engined, without being a hand full like an 1198. They can be tailored for track or touring use too, with as Andybow says, just the shuffling around of a few accessories. That firmly ticks the fun and versatile boxes.
Chipchap makes some good points and the latest BMWs with excellent TFTs, quality feel, ease of use and competent dealers. I very much look forward to buying one when I am 60 and just want something with turn key all day ease (not a criticism, just changing priorities as you get older). BMWs are pretty much the only bikes you can buy that give you a Porsche or Mercedes ownership feel from what I can see. That holistic sales and support experience.
However if you are touring or hustling around mountains, a race track or a fast bit of road, that's a bit irrelevent at the time and whether you need more than 125bhp or not, I personally use the extra a lot and like it. 125bhp and 225kg+ just lacks a bit of.... fizz... once you have sampled bikes with sub 200kg wet weights and 150+bhp. That fizz is what I buy fun bikes for. I believe you had a Speed Triple, as did I and if you found the top end a bit flat and the bike a little portly, I can only imaging the BMWs will be that and then some.
Saying all this, I rode an Africa Twin Adventure sports recently and loved it!! 100bhp and 230kg, but bags of character!
Ride them all and draw your own conclusions, but at the price point and for fun and versatility with sports bike performance, the MT10 is my favourite. Coming from an avid non-Yamaha man, that's high praise I think!
Anyhoo FWIW, my 2 pence:
With a modified H2, most other things will feel flaccid, so perhaps character, practicality and fun need to be important.
I'm very close to buying an MT10 new at the moment. With a comfort seat they are all day comfortable, they are laugh out loud fun, have a decent slug of power, but more importantly feel like they are over-engined, without being a hand full like an 1198. They can be tailored for track or touring use too, with as Andybow says, just the shuffling around of a few accessories. That firmly ticks the fun and versatile boxes.
Chipchap makes some good points and the latest BMWs with excellent TFTs, quality feel, ease of use and competent dealers. I very much look forward to buying one when I am 60 and just want something with turn key all day ease (not a criticism, just changing priorities as you get older). BMWs are pretty much the only bikes you can buy that give you a Porsche or Mercedes ownership feel from what I can see. That holistic sales and support experience.
However if you are touring or hustling around mountains, a race track or a fast bit of road, that's a bit irrelevent at the time and whether you need more than 125bhp or not, I personally use the extra a lot and like it. 125bhp and 225kg+ just lacks a bit of.... fizz... once you have sampled bikes with sub 200kg wet weights and 150+bhp. That fizz is what I buy fun bikes for. I believe you had a Speed Triple, as did I and if you found the top end a bit flat and the bike a little portly, I can only imaging the BMWs will be that and then some.
Saying all this, I rode an Africa Twin Adventure sports recently and loved it!! 100bhp and 230kg, but bags of character!
Ride them all and draw your own conclusions, but at the price point and for fun and versatility with sports bike performance, the MT10 is my favourite. Coming from an avid non-Yamaha man, that's high praise I think!
3DP said:
Some lovely responses here. I get where most are coming from, although it is funny reading Black-K1 arguing for a chain drive 160bhp KTM and Spareparts arguing that a fat shafty BM with 125bhp is all you need....
Anyhoo FWIW, my 2 pence:
With a modified H2, most other things will feel flaccid, so perhaps character, practicality and fun need to be important.
I'm very close to buying an MT10 new at the moment. With a comfort seat they are all day comfortable, they are laugh out loud fun, have a decent slug of power, but more importantly feel like they are over-engined, without being a hand full like an 1198. They can be tailored for track or touring use too, with as Andybow says, just the shuffling around of a few accessories. That firmly ticks the fun and versatile boxes.
Chipchap makes some good points and the latest BMWs with excellent TFTs, quality feel, ease of use and competent dealers. I very much look forward to buying one when I am 60 and just want something with turn key all day ease (not a criticism, just changing priorities as you get older). BMWs are pretty much the only bikes you can buy that give you a Porsche or Mercedes ownership feel from what I can see. That holistic sales and support experience.
However if you are touring or hustling around mountains, a race track or a fast bit of road, that's a bit irrelevent at the time and whether you need more than 125bhp or not, I personally use the extra a lot and like it. 125bhp and 225kg+ just lacks a bit of.... fizz... once you have sampled bikes with sub 200kg wet weights and 150+bhp. That fizz is what I buy fun bikes for. I believe you had a Speed Triple, as did I and if you found the top end a bit flat and the bike a little portly, I can only imaging the BMWs will be that and then some.
Saying all this, I rode an Africa Twin Adventure sports recently and loved it!! 100bhp and 230kg, but bags of character!
Ride them all and draw your own conclusions, but at the price point and for fun and versatility with sports bike performance, the MT10 is my favourite. Coming from an avid non-Yamaha man, that's high praise I think!
When you get your mt give me a shout, I’ve got some stuff you can haveAnyhoo FWIW, my 2 pence:
With a modified H2, most other things will feel flaccid, so perhaps character, practicality and fun need to be important.
I'm very close to buying an MT10 new at the moment. With a comfort seat they are all day comfortable, they are laugh out loud fun, have a decent slug of power, but more importantly feel like they are over-engined, without being a hand full like an 1198. They can be tailored for track or touring use too, with as Andybow says, just the shuffling around of a few accessories. That firmly ticks the fun and versatile boxes.
Chipchap makes some good points and the latest BMWs with excellent TFTs, quality feel, ease of use and competent dealers. I very much look forward to buying one when I am 60 and just want something with turn key all day ease (not a criticism, just changing priorities as you get older). BMWs are pretty much the only bikes you can buy that give you a Porsche or Mercedes ownership feel from what I can see. That holistic sales and support experience.
However if you are touring or hustling around mountains, a race track or a fast bit of road, that's a bit irrelevent at the time and whether you need more than 125bhp or not, I personally use the extra a lot and like it. 125bhp and 225kg+ just lacks a bit of.... fizz... once you have sampled bikes with sub 200kg wet weights and 150+bhp. That fizz is what I buy fun bikes for. I believe you had a Speed Triple, as did I and if you found the top end a bit flat and the bike a little portly, I can only imaging the BMWs will be that and then some.
Saying all this, I rode an Africa Twin Adventure sports recently and loved it!! 100bhp and 230kg, but bags of character!
Ride them all and draw your own conclusions, but at the price point and for fun and versatility with sports bike performance, the MT10 is my favourite. Coming from an avid non-Yamaha man, that's high praise I think!
I agree with Pete, the supernakeds are where its at for riders wanting touring ability but with decent handling , light is right when it comes to bikes and the supernakeds are just as comfortable as something like a K1300S (as agreed by a K1300 rider...) but have loads of power and the handling to match.
Agreed you cant carry quite as much luggage on way but how long do you want to go away for?
Give the S1000R a shot as well Pete, I was about to sign on the line for one but the BMW surprised me, it was cheaper than an MT10 too...
Only negative about the BMW is reliability/build, Vs a Japanese bike , your more likely to have a dabble with the warranty at some stage from mine and friends experiences with them.
Agreed you cant carry quite as much luggage on way but how long do you want to go away for?
Give the S1000R a shot as well Pete, I was about to sign on the line for one but the BMW surprised me, it was cheaper than an MT10 too...
Only negative about the BMW is reliability/build, Vs a Japanese bike , your more likely to have a dabble with the warranty at some stage from mine and friends experiences with them.
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