Jap 600 vs Ducati 748/916/996 etc
Discussion
Yep sorry thats what I meant I brought one in 2000 loved the grunt but they say (lot of road testers) that this is one of the few bikes that need suspension setting up asap for the rider, I got rid of it after 6 months so possibly did't give it enough time, no doubt famtastic bike but I still prefer look noise ownership of a Ducati.........
virgil said:
wassy said:
What about an RSV Mille. I'm on my third, this one's the R version with Ohlins, OZ wheels etc.
You can pick one up for next to nowt at the moment.
Never had any reliability issues whatsoever.
You can pick one up for next to nowt at the moment.
Never had any reliability issues whatsoever.
Yeah - funnily enough was reading about them in an article just last night...didn't really know anything about them. Look good on paper, but If I remember correctly did seem to suggest that they'd be more for an experienced rider than a numpty newbie...
Is theis what is meant by 'a bit top heavy'?? I.e. - need experience to handle the handling...
Some riders find them a bit tall and I know what they mean about a feeling of dropping into slower corners but you soon get used to it.
If you can afford a bit extra go for the 'R' version.
wassy said:
virgil said:
wassy said:
What about an RSV Mille. I'm on my third, this one's the R version with Ohlins, OZ wheels etc.
You can pick one up for next to nowt at the moment.
Never had any reliability issues whatsoever.
You can pick one up for next to nowt at the moment.
Never had any reliability issues whatsoever.
Yeah - funnily enough was reading about them in an article just last night...didn't really know anything about them. Look good on paper, but If I remember correctly did seem to suggest that they'd be more for an experienced rider than a numpty newbie...
Is theis what is meant by 'a bit top heavy'?? I.e. - need experience to handle the handling...
Some riders find them a bit tall and I know what they mean about a feeling of dropping into slower corners but you soon get used to it.
If you can afford a bit extra go for the 'R' version.
When you say a bit tall, you mean the seat hight? If so, I'm bang on 6 foot, so I guess that's not so bad - or is it to do with the centre of gravity?
And is this why it "drops quick into slower corners"? If so, does thsi mean it is very easy to over lean it in a corner if you are not concentrating, and just fall over?
Without wishing to sound patronising (I hate it when people start sentences like that)If it's your first bike are you really notice the difference in handling and performance??
VTwin or screaming four will be noticably different as will styles.
My advice would be to go out and try as many as possible then ignore them all and get the prettiest, so long as it's comfortable enough for what you intend using it for.
New GSXRs look great
Old dukes sound great
VTwin or screaming four will be noticably different as will styles.
My advice would be to go out and try as many as possible then ignore them all and get the prettiest, so long as it's comfortable enough for what you intend using it for.
New GSXRs look great
Old dukes sound great
At six foot it will probably feel quite comfortable with the seat height and seat to bar ratio, the Mille is quite a big bike.
I have only experienced the 'dropping into slow corner thing' on a closed throttle, if your on the gas or a constant throttle opening it doesnt happen.
Best get a ride on one, most Aprilia dealers are pretty good with test rids and stuff.
I have only experienced the 'dropping into slow corner thing' on a closed throttle, if your on the gas or a constant throttle opening it doesnt happen.
Best get a ride on one, most Aprilia dealers are pretty good with test rids and stuff.
Twinpipe said:
Without wishing to sound patronising (I hate it when people start sentences like that)If it's your first bike are you really notice the difference in handling and performance??
VTwin or screaming four will be noticably different as will styles.
My advice would be to go out and try as many as possible then ignore them all and get the prettiest, so long as it's comfortable enough for what you intend using it for.
New GSXRs look great
Old dukes sound great
VTwin or screaming four will be noticably different as will styles.
My advice would be to go out and try as many as possible then ignore them all and get the prettiest, so long as it's comfortable enough for what you intend using it for.
New GSXRs look great
Old dukes sound great
Nope - won't notice the difference at all...but if one is MUCH easier to fall off when you are not paying attention then I may want to steer clear of one until I know what I am really doing
wassy said:
At six foot it will probably feel quite comfortable with the seat height and seat to bar ratio, the Mille is quite a big bike.
I have only experienced the 'dropping into slow corner thing' on a closed throttle, if your on the gas or a constant throttle opening it doesnt happen.
Best get a ride on one, most Aprilia dealers are pretty good with test rids and stuff.
I have only experienced the 'dropping into slow corner thing' on a closed throttle, if your on the gas or a constant throttle opening it doesnt happen.
Best get a ride on one, most Aprilia dealers are pretty good with test rids and stuff.
Test rides...good advice...though always nice to go into something armed with a little back ground info. Never forget the shock of the unservoed brakes in a Lotus Elise first time I drove one, even though I'd read all about it, It was like "ah, so you really DO have to shove quite hard" as I nearly didn't stop at the first junction!
Ofcourse now someone will come along and say that was just a knackerd Elise!
Last thing I'd want to do is test ride a Mille and just fall off it on the first corner
Hi virgil,
Welcome aboard!
I had no issue's at all with build quality on my Ducati, and they really arn't unreliable if you look after them properly. Just about all the Ducati reliability problems I've seen is from owners that simply didn't look after them properly or ride them with a degree of mechanical sympathy.
I agree with aeropilot; I ride a Ducati and mine's been reliable, including winter commuting. If you want a Ducati, then my tips to keep it running without hassle include:
- Only buy a bike with a full service history.
- Many bike dealers will sell second-hand bikes with 3-12 months warranty, which is brilliant piece of mind.
- Keep the bike serviced properly.
- Ride it regularly; many Ducatis seem to go wrong when barely ridden.
- A coating of ACF50 spray before the start of winter will prevent rust:
www.sounddistribution.co.uk/produc
However, you are also buying your first big bike. So I'd rule out any litre-bike
Equally, why not take a variaety of bikes for a test ride? You sometimes have to pay for test rides, but it's peanuts compared to getting the right bike. What suits one person can be dramatically different from another.
To be honest, the poor steering lock of Ducati 748/749 wouldn't make it the easiest of first bikes. However, regular riding and investing in some advanced training would give you the tools to get the most out of a 748/749. I've done various race schools and advanced training, from which I'd highly recommend 1-2 days with the like of www.ridedrive.co.uk/motorcycle-onp or ideally www.rapidtraining.co.uk 
Hope this is helpful and have fun, whatever you choose in the end.
Cheers
Welcome aboard!
aeropilot said:
I had no issue's at all with build quality on my Ducati, and they really arn't unreliable if you look after them properly. Just about all the Ducati reliability problems I've seen is from owners that simply didn't look after them properly or ride them with a degree of mechanical sympathy.
I agree with aeropilot; I ride a Ducati and mine's been reliable, including winter commuting. If you want a Ducati, then my tips to keep it running without hassle include:
- Only buy a bike with a full service history.
- Many bike dealers will sell second-hand bikes with 3-12 months warranty, which is brilliant piece of mind.
- Keep the bike serviced properly.
- Ride it regularly; many Ducatis seem to go wrong when barely ridden.
- A coating of ACF50 spray before the start of winter will prevent rust:
www.sounddistribution.co.uk/produc
However, you are also buying your first big bike. So I'd rule out any litre-bike
Equally, why not take a variaety of bikes for a test ride? You sometimes have to pay for test rides, but it's peanuts compared to getting the right bike. What suits one person can be dramatically different from another. To be honest, the poor steering lock of Ducati 748/749 wouldn't make it the easiest of first bikes. However, regular riding and investing in some advanced training would give you the tools to get the most out of a 748/749. I've done various race schools and advanced training, from which I'd highly recommend 1-2 days with the like of www.ridedrive.co.uk/motorcycle-onp or ideally www.rapidtraining.co.uk
Hope this is helpful and have fun, whatever you choose in the end.
Cheers
For a first bike, I'd steer away from sportsbike as a whole and go for something more road orientated, like an SV650. Sportsbikes have such capability that anyone new to bikes can't get anywhere near the limits of the machine. Many can feel intimidated and ultimately learn less and have less fun.
On a less capable machine you can find out how a bike reacts when you push it and that knowledge will help massively when you move up to something like an R1.
It's why you see ex-motocross riders doing so well when they start road riding or racing, they aren't in awe of a bike and they are used to feeling a bike moving around underneath them. If you never experienced a bike sliding, then when it happens on a powerful sportsbike on the road, then bad things are likely to happen.
I started on 50cc field bikes and learnt how to thrash the nuts off something in (relative) safety, some of the lessons I learnt then would have been terrifying on the road at 5x the speed!
Whatever you ride though, just get out and have some fun!
On a less capable machine you can find out how a bike reacts when you push it and that knowledge will help massively when you move up to something like an R1.
It's why you see ex-motocross riders doing so well when they start road riding or racing, they aren't in awe of a bike and they are used to feeling a bike moving around underneath them. If you never experienced a bike sliding, then when it happens on a powerful sportsbike on the road, then bad things are likely to happen.
I started on 50cc field bikes and learnt how to thrash the nuts off something in (relative) safety, some of the lessons I learnt then would have been terrifying on the road at 5x the speed!
Whatever you ride though, just get out and have some fun!
Cheers for the replies guys.
Mrs Virgil has given me the thumbs up...just got to tell mother now
So will be on the hunt proper in a couple of weeks time. Will get some gear first so I can 'go equiped' for any test rides...
The latest five minute fancy is an '04 onward Aprilia 1000 R - yes - too powerfull, and will probably have to look for something else once I get an insurance quote, but in 'Aprilia Black' pretty damned sexy!
http://images.nxgn-ltd.com/getimg.asp
Either that or a Monster...or 916...or a yellow 748...or a....
Good god there are a lot of nice bikes to choose from...
Mrs Virgil has given me the thumbs up...just got to tell mother now
So will be on the hunt proper in a couple of weeks time. Will get some gear first so I can 'go equiped' for any test rides...
The latest five minute fancy is an '04 onward Aprilia 1000 R - yes - too powerfull, and will probably have to look for something else once I get an insurance quote, but in 'Aprilia Black' pretty damned sexy!
http://images.nxgn-ltd.com/getimg.asp
Either that or a Monster...or 916...or a yellow 748...or a....
Good god there are a lot of nice bikes to choose from...
Hi again,
That's the funniest thing I've read here in ages! You definitely want some advanced training if you get either of those.
iforb's right. You'll actually have less fun if you start on a supersports. You'll learn less too, for the reasons iforb points out.
I agree that an SV650 is a cracking big bike I had one for a while and it was belting; just one of those grin-inducing bikes that comes together on-road far better than its spec suggests it should. It handled track days with aplomb too 
Very highly recommended as a first bike - go test ride one!
However, if you must have Italian exotica, then test ride a Monster 620ie too. (Or the Monster 695 if you can afford a new bike.) Either of these would be much better than the old 600 version.
virgil said:
The latest five minute fancy is an '04 onward Aprilia 1000 R - yes - too powerfull ... Either that or a Monster...or 916...or a yellow 748...or a....
Jeez, thinking of an Aprilla 1000R or a 916 for a first bike ... and you haven't even got any gear yet That's the funniest thing I've read here in ages! You definitely want some advanced training if you get either of those. iforb said:
For a first bike, I'd steer away from sportsbike as a whole and go for something more road orientated, like an SV650. Sportsbikes have such capability that anyone new to bikes can't get anywhere near the limits of the machine. Many can feel intimidated and ultimately learn less and have less fun.
iforb's right. You'll actually have less fun if you start on a supersports. You'll learn less too, for the reasons iforb points out.
I agree that an SV650 is a cracking big bike
I had one for a while and it was belting; just one of those grin-inducing bikes that comes together on-road far better than its spec suggests it should. It handled track days with aplomb too Very highly recommended as a first bike - go test ride one! However, if you must have Italian exotica, then test ride a Monster 620ie too. (Or the Monster 695 if you can afford a new bike.) Either of these would be much better than the old 600 version.
Edited by SVS on Thursday 22 February 19:33
Wassy - seen it - twas what got me thinking - reading all the reviews to see what is about and it got me looking at the Aprilias...
SVS - It's far too easy to go...yeah I don't want a Jap 1000 as it's 160hp, I'll get something more sensible for a first bike. That Duke 748 only has 90ish HP - but that review did say it could do with a little more power so the older 916 may make a better bet...it 'only has' 110...but the newer one may be a better buy and it's 'only' 120/130, then trhe Aprilia's 'only' 130/140...and it comes in satin black....
Before you know it, your back to thinking about road rockets again
Had considered a Monster - a 900 though....
SVS - It's far too easy to go...yeah I don't want a Jap 1000 as it's 160hp, I'll get something more sensible for a first bike. That Duke 748 only has 90ish HP - but that review did say it could do with a little more power so the older 916 may make a better bet...it 'only has' 110...but the newer one may be a better buy and it's 'only' 120/130, then trhe Aprilia's 'only' 130/140...and it comes in satin black....
Before you know it, your back to thinking about road rockets again
Had considered a Monster - a 900 though....
Heya Virgil, something that may very well make your mind up on the bike you end up with will be insurance. I found that there was a massive difference in the cost of big bike insurance between zero and one years bike NCB. I was this >.< away from trading my Fazer in for a Sprint ST recently until I clocked that waiting until October would save me nearly a grand! 
I know it's a toy for you and you want something sporty so a "sensible" bike like mine (not the rider
) is out, but what about something like an Aprilia (good start).... RS250? Two stroke tearaway fun in a sexy Italian package??
Or.... the little Honda NC30/RVF400's sound gorgeous with race cans on them. I'd have bought one but I think they're just too small for me and didn't suit the riding I do anyway.
BTW you shouldn't be looking at BHP figures to try and get an idea of how quick a bike might be, torque figures are far more significant: BHP=top speed, torque=acceleration.
I know it's a toy for you and you want something sporty so a "sensible" bike like mine (not the rider
) is out, but what about something like an Aprilia (good start).... RS250? Two stroke tearaway fun in a sexy Italian package?? Or.... the little Honda NC30/RVF400's sound gorgeous with race cans on them. I'd have bought one but I think they're just too small for me and didn't suit the riding I do anyway.
BTW you shouldn't be looking at BHP figures to try and get an idea of how quick a bike might be, torque figures are far more significant: BHP=top speed, torque=acceleration.
virgil said:
Had considered a Monster - a 900 though....
For a first bike, I'd really suggest a Monster 800, depending on your budget, either an older M800 or a newer S2R 800 if you can afford that.
The wet clutch on those are more user friendly and you can progressivley mod them easily (Sil Motor exhausts are a must) as you need.
It will allow you to learn and grow into the bike more easily. Insurance will be a lot cheaper too.
5 years ago when I was about to get my Monster, (when you only had a choice of M600, M750 and M900) everything I read pointed to the M750 as the one to get and that's what I did, and it was the right decision IMHO.
They are huge fun, and there's also a great very sociable UK club for all your Monster needs.
[url]www.ukmonster.co.uk/[/url]
Edited by aeropilot on Friday 23 February 10:10
Hi again virgil,
If you don't mind me asking here, what's your budget?
Also, people differ in what they want to get out of motorcycling. What are you looking for out of biking?
Cheers
hiccy said:
Heya Virgil, something that may very well make your mind up on the bike you end up with will be insurance. I found that there was a massive difference in the cost of big bike insurance between zero and one years bike NCB. I was this >.< away from trading my Fazer in for a Sprint ST recently until I clocked that waiting until October would save me nearly a grand!
If you don't mind me asking here, what's your budget?
Also, people differ in what they want to get out of motorcycling. What are you looking for out of biking?
Cheers
hiccy - insurance is a real bugger - 1500 for a litre (probably quite sensible) 900 for a 750 and 500 for a 600 - all racy types. Not looked into the monter types yet.
Aeropilot - 800 monster sounds great - though only really seen the 600 or 900s in autotrader...nice looking bike though and if I went naked (bike that is!) i'd go for the duke...
Wassy - looks good and nice cans...been saying that a lot recently - currently in Sydney after 2 days in Singapore (oooh!)
odyssey2200 - to be honest it would either be a Jap 4 or an italian 2...not sure why...just seems right, though I'm sure the jAP 2s are fantastic bikes...
SVS - don't mind at all - when I first passed had a nine grand budget in mind and a wife that would have killed me...now have a more realistic budget of 4-5k, a suportive wife but still a reluctant mother!
Bike wise - this is the hard bit - really not sure. Part of me thinks, Monster style....part of me goes race style. I'm 6 foot, 15 stone and like a bit of speed. Not too reckless (made it to 35 so far) but not sure if a monster would be too boring flat out on a straight, or a Duke 916/996 too taxing for a newbie...
Will be puerly a Sunday fun bike. Will take it into work probably twice...just to show off, so commuting/touring not an issue.
I do pick things up pretty quick, but also know my worldly limits!
Really is a quandry....and yes...everyone does say "don't buy a litre as a first"...
Saw a Senna 916 when I went down to Bondi beach yesterday and looked F***ing great...Hmmm...916 - really too much?
Aeropilot - 800 monster sounds great - though only really seen the 600 or 900s in autotrader...nice looking bike though and if I went naked (bike that is!) i'd go for the duke...
Wassy - looks good and nice cans...been saying that a lot recently - currently in Sydney after 2 days in Singapore (oooh!)
odyssey2200 - to be honest it would either be a Jap 4 or an italian 2...not sure why...just seems right, though I'm sure the jAP 2s are fantastic bikes...
SVS - don't mind at all - when I first passed had a nine grand budget in mind and a wife that would have killed me...now have a more realistic budget of 4-5k, a suportive wife but still a reluctant mother!
Bike wise - this is the hard bit - really not sure. Part of me thinks, Monster style....part of me goes race style. I'm 6 foot, 15 stone and like a bit of speed. Not too reckless (made it to 35 so far) but not sure if a monster would be too boring flat out on a straight, or a Duke 916/996 too taxing for a newbie...
Will be puerly a Sunday fun bike. Will take it into work probably twice...just to show off, so commuting/touring not an issue.
I do pick things up pretty quick, but also know my worldly limits!
Really is a quandry....and yes...everyone does say "don't buy a litre as a first"...
Saw a Senna 916 when I went down to Bondi beach yesterday and looked F***ing great...Hmmm...916 - really too much?
Is that budget just for the bike or total? If so, that leaves about 3k for a bike as even if you go for a 600 insurance as you say will be £500. Between the kit you need and other bits n bobs you're probably going to spend the best part of £2k on stuff other than the bike I'd reckon.
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