So has Toseland lived up to his promise this year?
Discussion
JT's a top bloke and with a great blend of intelligence, courage and speed IMHO.
He's spent a year not busting himself up, learning the tyres, tracks and competition at MotoGP level. Look how many other riders have almost ended their careers this year.
Hope the Tech3 team get factory level bikes next year and factory spec tyres (one brand yes, but you really think they'll all get the same choices/testing?).
p.s. Why do Brits seem want to knock people down?
p.p.s. Dodgiest 'private plate' award of the century though
He's spent a year not busting himself up, learning the tyres, tracks and competition at MotoGP level. Look how many other riders have almost ended their careers this year.
Hope the Tech3 team get factory level bikes next year and factory spec tyres (one brand yes, but you really think they'll all get the same choices/testing?).
p.s. Why do Brits seem want to knock people down?
p.p.s. Dodgiest 'private plate' award of the century though
StuB said:
JT's a top bloke and with a great blend of intelligence, courage and speed IMHO.
He's spent a year not busting himself up, learning the tyres, tracks and competition at MotoGP level. Look how many other riders have almost ended their careers this year.
Hope the Tech3 team get factory level bikes next year and factory spec tyres (one brand yes, but you really think they'll all get the same choices/testing?).
p.s. Why do Brits seem want to knock people down?
p.p.s. Dodgiest 'private plate' award of the century though
agreed, he has loked like a man who knows he can compete, only he understands he has a lot to learn first.He's spent a year not busting himself up, learning the tyres, tracks and competition at MotoGP level. Look how many other riders have almost ended their careers this year.
Hope the Tech3 team get factory level bikes next year and factory spec tyres (one brand yes, but you really think they'll all get the same choices/testing?).
p.s. Why do Brits seem want to knock people down?
p.p.s. Dodgiest 'private plate' award of the century though
when someone like the goat says that you are riding like a little devil and that he feels safe racing at close quarters with you, then at that point you know you can do it.
i think he probably will just scrape a top 10 finish this year, and possibly a few podiums next, je was in our garage at donny wsbk and was explaining just how much harder you have to be on the brakes and lighter on the throttle than in wsbk.
all round, good guy, and yes his private plate is bad, saw it a few times last year on his honda lent civic type r.
StuB said:
JT's a top bloke and with a great blend of intelligence, courage and speed IMHO.
He's spent a year not busting himself up, learning the tyres, tracks and competition at MotoGP level. Look how many other riders have almost ended their careers this year.
Hope the Tech3 team get factory level bikes next year and factory spec tyres (one brand yes, but you really think they'll all get the same choices/testing?).
p.s. Why do Brits seem want to knock people down?
p.p.s. Dodgiest 'private plate' award of the century though
He certainly took on Rossi at the weekend - and did reasonably well keeping the factory bikes at bay when Rossi inevitably got past him. That ride alone showed real racing spirit.He's spent a year not busting himself up, learning the tyres, tracks and competition at MotoGP level. Look how many other riders have almost ended their careers this year.
Hope the Tech3 team get factory level bikes next year and factory spec tyres (one brand yes, but you really think they'll all get the same choices/testing?).
p.s. Why do Brits seem want to knock people down?
p.p.s. Dodgiest 'private plate' award of the century though
Will be interesting to see him perform when he knows the circuits better. I reckon it's too early to tell whether he's a championship contender or a perpetual also-ran (which is still one hell of an achievement to be 4th - 7th in MotoGP, let's not forget).
There's also wisdom in riding within your limits a bit to acclimatise to the different tracks and the difference between MotoGP prototypes and WSB bikes - he could easily have ridden like a nutball from day one and had a large, important injury. He probably knows he's marketable and hasn't got quite so much to prove (sponsorship won't be a problem for him, even my girlfriend recognises the Toseland name) so it's a mature approach.
Whether one interprets this as lacking that last 0.01% of 'desire' and 'drive' to win - if I knew I'd get two MotoGP seasons in and wouldn't be booted out after one year... I'd be spending the first year learning, staying in one piece and getting to know the competitors and playing mind games with them. He's got a 2 year contract, hasn't he?
Then again I've only recently started following the sport. I know Rossi has been winning at all levels all the time - but what was he like on circuits he didn't know? (this may be a dumb question since his 125 and 250 racing will have given him ample circuit knowledge when moved up to the big beasts). Has Rossi been given a WSB bike to ride as a wildcard and raced at, say, Brands? (I've watched Toseland race and win there, was a great day other than losing my sunglasses and getting bad sunburn)
He certainly didn't look either slow, unconfident or passive at Philip Island, even with heavy pressure from faster bikes...
He said himself this year would be a tough year as he had to get to grips with a new bike, adapt his riding style and learn new tracks,
All in all he hasnt done a bad job of it, I would like to see him challenging for a top 5 spot next season though.
I did enjoy seeing him tussle with Rossi last weekend, shows that he is up for a battle no matter what or who, but was gonna be a no brainer as you could guarantee Rossi's bike is 1 or 2 versions/updates ahead of JT's.
All in all he hasnt done a bad job of it, I would like to see him challenging for a top 5 spot next season though.
I did enjoy seeing him tussle with Rossi last weekend, shows that he is up for a battle no matter what or who, but was gonna be a no brainer as you could guarantee Rossi's bike is 1 or 2 versions/updates ahead of JT's.
cyberface said:
I know Rossi has been winning at all levels all the time - but what was he like on circuits he didn't know? (this may be a dumb question since his 125 and 250 racing will have given him ample circuit knowledge when moved up to the big beasts). Has Rossi been given a WSB bike to ride as a wildcard and raced at, say, Brands? ...
I dont think Rossi would have anything to prove by stepping down to race a wildcard WSBK When Colin Edwards was WSBK world champion for Honda , he was paired with Vale to ride the 8 hour on Edwards wsb bike.
Rossi and Edwards won the event , and i believe Rossi was lapping quicker than Colin on a bike similar to what Colin had been riding all year .
Toselands biggest problem this year was that his loyal fans bit off more than he could chew in his first year .
I would like to see him get a couple of podiums next year , but any better than 3rd is going to require a huge number of dnf's from the top boys
Toseland was only beaten by factory bikes at Phillip Island.
Before you all say Nakano, then consider he has a full works pnuematic engine in that so called factory bike to support Pedrosa with data.
It was a fantastic performance and showed that he fully deserves his slot on the grid. I've not been a huge JT fan historically, but he has done a great job this year. He has remained injury free largely which is one key to a successful rookie season.
Circuit knowledge is so important. At Sepang in testing Toseland was over 2secs off the pace behind Edwards. Edwards offered to show him the lines admitting it ws really difficult and within an afternoon Toseland was on his pace.
How many satellite bikes on Michelins with a rookie on board have we seen on the podium this year ?
2 - Edwards at Le Mans and Assen being the only Michelin shod satellite rider to get on the podium and he is certainly not a rookie.
Dovi and Lorenzo know the circuits after years of riding them.
Let's say Toseland gets 10th overall for the season (could maybe do 9th) and that there are 10 full works bikes on the grid, even if you take off the Kawasaki's he has done extremely well.
PI proved given the circuit knowledge and working tyres he can run with the front runners, which he needs to do to get better to then challenge for wins.
As for being the most marketable rider on the grid after Rossi, I think there are much better contenders. Youonly need to look at which countries pour the money into sponsorship and where the bike culture is focussed on GP's versus WSB. Spain, Lorenzo, springs to mind immediately.
Before you all say Nakano, then consider he has a full works pnuematic engine in that so called factory bike to support Pedrosa with data.
It was a fantastic performance and showed that he fully deserves his slot on the grid. I've not been a huge JT fan historically, but he has done a great job this year. He has remained injury free largely which is one key to a successful rookie season.
Circuit knowledge is so important. At Sepang in testing Toseland was over 2secs off the pace behind Edwards. Edwards offered to show him the lines admitting it ws really difficult and within an afternoon Toseland was on his pace.
How many satellite bikes on Michelins with a rookie on board have we seen on the podium this year ?
2 - Edwards at Le Mans and Assen being the only Michelin shod satellite rider to get on the podium and he is certainly not a rookie.
Dovi and Lorenzo know the circuits after years of riding them.
Let's say Toseland gets 10th overall for the season (could maybe do 9th) and that there are 10 full works bikes on the grid, even if you take off the Kawasaki's he has done extremely well.
PI proved given the circuit knowledge and working tyres he can run with the front runners, which he needs to do to get better to then challenge for wins.
As for being the most marketable rider on the grid after Rossi, I think there are much better contenders. Youonly need to look at which countries pour the money into sponsorship and where the bike culture is focussed on GP's versus WSB. Spain, Lorenzo, springs to mind immediately.
Busamav said:
Toselands biggest problem this year was that his loyal fans bit off more than he could chew in his first year .
The fans didnt help, but he has himself to blame, it was his own OTT exuberance at finishing 6th and seconds away from Rossi in the opening race and subsequent races thereafter proceeded to talk up his chances of podium finishes, race wins and being a title contender, he set himself up for a fall. Every week there was some new quote in the paper or website of his predictions, normally BBC and Suzie Perry, lets not ignore that when defending him, he deserves some of the criticism.
He is more humble now, and good on him.
What do we want him to say.
I'm going to try and finish 6th at every race and hope i win the championship on consistency ?
He has been our first genuine chance of a top leel race winner in a long time and I for one am glad he's thinking big. Also lets be fair, most of the comments came from the media and not James, he's never been that front foot in his comments.
Yes he does suffer a little over exuberance on occassion, but he set himself a target of top 6 at the start of the year as i remember which was ambitious, but that's what I want from our riders, not accepting the fate so many of them have had hsitorically. Crud bikes, no sponsorship etc etc
I'm going to try and finish 6th at every race and hope i win the championship on consistency ?
He has been our first genuine chance of a top leel race winner in a long time and I for one am glad he's thinking big. Also lets be fair, most of the comments came from the media and not James, he's never been that front foot in his comments.
Yes he does suffer a little over exuberance on occassion, but he set himself a target of top 6 at the start of the year as i remember which was ambitious, but that's what I want from our riders, not accepting the fate so many of them have had hsitorically. Crud bikes, no sponsorship etc etc
Johno said:
What do we want him to say.
I'm going to try and finish 6th at every race and hope i win the championship on consistency ?
He has been our first genuine chance of a top leel race winner in a long time and I for one am glad he's thinking big. Also lets be fair, most of the comments came from the media and not James, he's never been that front foot in his comments.
Yes he does suffer a little over exuberance on occassion, but he set himself a target of top 6 at the start of the year as i remember which was ambitious, but that's what I want from our riders, not accepting the fate so many of them have had hsitorically. Crud bikes, no sponsorship etc etc
I dont think you can attribute most of those outlandish claims to journalists, as most of them were emblazoned across the BBC website as Toseland "quotes".I'm going to try and finish 6th at every race and hope i win the championship on consistency ?
He has been our first genuine chance of a top leel race winner in a long time and I for one am glad he's thinking big. Also lets be fair, most of the comments came from the media and not James, he's never been that front foot in his comments.
Yes he does suffer a little over exuberance on occassion, but he set himself a target of top 6 at the start of the year as i remember which was ambitious, but that's what I want from our riders, not accepting the fate so many of them have had hsitorically. Crud bikes, no sponsorship etc etc
His experience should have taught him to be more humble, keep the quotes to a minimum, be realistic and dont get british fans hopes up too high, as we have a history of being let down by our nations finest.
that was then and now I for one am glad to see he is out of the news for the right reasons.
Quinny said:
castrolcraig said:
Busamav/ said:
would like to see him get a couple of podiums next year , but any better than 3rd is going to require a huge number of dnf's from the top boys
but how many of us said that about stoner before the start of the 07 season??If he gets the right kit I see no reason that he shouldn't stand at the top of the podium, and on his own merit, not cos half the field DNF's
The lesser machines are dished out as a test for riders to prove themselves, because once you step up, you have no excuse then.
castrolcraig said:
Busamav/ said:
would like to see him get a couple of podiums next year , but any better than 3rd is going to require a huge number of dnf's from the top boys
but how many of us said that about stoner before the start of the 07 season??
There are lots of ways you can compare relative stats. If you take the measure of points between team mates, it draws a fun comparison with some huge disparities:
Stoner -> 194pts -> Melandri
Rossi -> 150pts -> Lorenzo
Pedrosa -> 78pts -> Hayden
Nakano -> 51pts -> De Angelis
Edwards -> 25pts -> Toseland
Vermeulen -> 16pts -> Capirossi
Obviously you to take different tyres into account for Fiat Yamaha and to a lesser degree Repsol Honda. On that scale, you could argue that Toseland has done amazingly well and, results aside, MotoGP needs people like Toseland, in the same way it needs people like Rossi: they lure in unsuspecting F1 fans.
Stoner -> 194pts -> Melandri
Rossi -> 150pts -> Lorenzo
Pedrosa -> 78pts -> Hayden
Nakano -> 51pts -> De Angelis
Edwards -> 25pts -> Toseland
Vermeulen -> 16pts -> Capirossi
Obviously you to take different tyres into account for Fiat Yamaha and to a lesser degree Repsol Honda. On that scale, you could argue that Toseland has done amazingly well and, results aside, MotoGP needs people like Toseland, in the same way it needs people like Rossi: they lure in unsuspecting F1 fans.
Toseland will run with the top 5 next year if his bike is competitive again, he will have to learn new tyres, but he has winter testing for that, and with edwards who is signed by yamaha not tech3 im guessing they will have near on factory support again, edwards is there for his fantastic devolpment skills, and yamaha wont wanna give away that title again.
All i know is next year is possibly gonna be a year to remember back to our glory days, we got toseland possibly contending near the front in motogp, rea, sykes, byrne, hill and haslam all at the worlds, with king cal in WSS also joined by possibly eugene laverty with parkalgar.
Smith and scott redding on factory aprilias.
And ofcourse BSB, the next crop of stars to come through...
I dont like wishing my life away... but bring on march 2009.
All i know is next year is possibly gonna be a year to remember back to our glory days, we got toseland possibly contending near the front in motogp, rea, sykes, byrne, hill and haslam all at the worlds, with king cal in WSS also joined by possibly eugene laverty with parkalgar.
Smith and scott redding on factory aprilias.
And ofcourse BSB, the next crop of stars to come through...
I dont like wishing my life away... but bring on march 2009.
What do we want as MotoGP fans in this country?
Toseland has done superbly this season. A very, very impressive debut year. When he's been at tracks he's known, he's been up there (apart from Donington of course!) but this latest ride at Phillip Island was absolutely superb. He's riding at the absolute highest level and was only beaten by the absolute cream all of whom are on either "factory" machines or are significantly more experienced on the bikes. Let's face it at their level, we are only talking about a tiny % difference between any of them.
I don't think he'll ever be world champ unless he gets a factory ride or unless Rossi decides to walk away, but he thoroughly deserves his place on the grid.
Toseland has done superbly this season. A very, very impressive debut year. When he's been at tracks he's known, he's been up there (apart from Donington of course!) but this latest ride at Phillip Island was absolutely superb. He's riding at the absolute highest level and was only beaten by the absolute cream all of whom are on either "factory" machines or are significantly more experienced on the bikes. Let's face it at their level, we are only talking about a tiny % difference between any of them.
I don't think he'll ever be world champ unless he gets a factory ride or unless Rossi decides to walk away, but he thoroughly deserves his place on the grid.
Jetl3on said:
I dont think you can attribute most of those outlandish claims to journalists, as most of them were emblazoned across the BBC website as Toseland "quotes".
His experience should have taught him to be more humble, keep the quotes to a minimum, be realistic and dont get british fans hopes up too high, as we have a history of being let down by our nations finest.
that was then and now I for one am glad to see he is out of the news for the right reasons.
You're absolutely correct. If he'd just accept that he's really sHis experience should have taught him to be more humble, keep the quotes to a minimum, be realistic and dont get british fans hopes up too high, as we have a history of being let down by our nations finest.
that was then and now I for one am glad to see he is out of the news for the right reasons.
t and retire before next season, then someone else can have a go. You seem to have a bit of thing about JT. Did he shag your bird or something?
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff