Real world performance
Discussion
Strangely, the zx10r I have now is by far the easiest bike to make progress on I've ever ridden.
That includes large twins, 600 lightweight inline 4s and single cylinders.
However, it's geared for about 150mph and tuned to over 160hp so it'll accelerate in any gear (apart from 150 in top when I'm generally flailing around attempting to find 7th gear).
That includes large twins, 600 lightweight inline 4s and single cylinders.
However, it's geared for about 150mph and tuned to over 160hp so it'll accelerate in any gear (apart from 150 in top when I'm generally flailing around attempting to find 7th gear).
I'm very much someone who loves useable power. I've got the Versys now which is a great real world tool particularly on tight back roads. Ideally though I'd like something with a little more urgency, a little more top end and better brakes. That sounds like a ktm 950 but I don't think the KTM is quite as refined in the motor dept.
Rob13 said:
I'm very much someone who loves useable power. I've got the Versys now which is a great real world tool particularly on tight back roads. Ideally though I'd like something with a little more urgency, a little more top end and better brakes. That sounds like a ktm 950 but I don't think the KTM is quite as refined in the motor dept.
Sounds like you want a long stroke short geared IL4. CB1000, or new Z1000.3doorPete said:
Rob13 said:
I'm very much someone who loves useable power. I've got the Versys now which is a great real world tool particularly on tight back roads. Ideally though I'd like something with a little more urgency, a little more top end and better brakes. That sounds like a ktm 950 but I don't think the KTM is quite as refined in the motor dept.
Sounds like you want a long stroke short geared IL4. CB1000, or new Z1000.3doorPete said:
Rob13 said:
I'm very much someone who loves useable power. I've got the Versys now which is a great real world tool particularly on tight back roads. Ideally though I'd like something with a little more urgency, a little more top end and better brakes. That sounds like a ktm 950 but I don't think the KTM is quite as refined in the motor dept.
Sounds like you want a long stroke short geared IL4. CB1000, or new Z1000.3doorPete said:
Rob13 said:
I'm very much someone who loves useable power. I've got the Versys now which is a great real world tool particularly on tight back roads. Ideally though I'd like something with a little more urgency, a little more top end and better brakes. That sounds like a ktm 950 but I don't think the KTM is quite as refined in the motor dept.
Sounds like you want a long stroke short geared IL4. CB1000, or new Z1000.the thing people always underrate in these comparisons is how familiar the rider is with their particular bike. i've had my blade for a decade. could buy something with another 30bhp, but in a race i'd beat myself using the old blade very time until i'd owned the other one for quite a while.
To be honest, if you were not used to the power, for instance you had jumped off of a mid 90's Gsxr or 'blade then any of the bikes listed will try and tear your arms off, regardless of revs. Compared to a big single or twin no they probably aren't as punchy but will still be more than capable of a swift overtake almost regardless of the initial revs.
MC Bodge said:
3doorPete said:
Bloody hell - reading this thread I feel like I'm on a Harley Davidson forum.
Why, are you wearing studded leather and a handlebar moustache or do you disagree with the arguments about real world performance?I have the same cross country pace/real world performance on a torquey bike as I do on a revvy bike - I just have more fun on the revvy bike.
3doorPete said:
Rawwr said:
My bike has the optional gearbox.
As an owner of a singles and IL4's, with a single it's great blatting around on the torque on road and lugging about off road spinning the rear. I love the sound of my single on an Arrow race pipe...
but - they are breathless and run out of revs on the road if you want to crack on. Great for popping wheelies, but crap for carrying them unless you are a 'through the box'legend. Short gearing also flatters their power and torque outputs.
Real world performance better than an IL4? Maybe on country lanes, but nowhere else.
I could hustle my DRZ through the woods quicker than I'd get through them on the Blade
the section is question is single cyl heaven, very steep up and down single track with gravel/mud/s
t all over the place, tight twisty no open sections...all sub 60mph for about 4 milesthe DRZ was a hoot, the blade was like a shark in a paddling pool
_DeeJay_ said:
Strangely, the zx10r I have now is by far the easiest bike to make progress on I've ever ridden.
That includes large twins, 600 lightweight inline 4s and single cylinders.
However, it's geared for about 150mph and tuned to over 160hp so it'll accelerate in any gear (apart from 150 in top when I'm generally flailing around attempting to find 7th gear).
I think you answered the question. Gearing. For some reason sports or other powerful bikes are geared for stupid top end ultimate MPH that generally can't be legally used let alone pulled. If you re-gear (well sprocket changes) a bike it can make a world of a difference. I did this with my first bike ZX-6R after about 15k miles, took 1 off the front and +2 on the rear sprockets when changing the chain, you won't believe the difference this makes to 'real' world performance for a road only bike. That includes large twins, 600 lightweight inline 4s and single cylinders.
However, it's geared for about 150mph and tuned to over 160hp so it'll accelerate in any gear (apart from 150 in top when I'm generally flailing around attempting to find 7th gear).
sjtscott said:
I think you answered the question. Gearing. For some reason sports or other powerful bikes are geared for stupid top end ultimate MPH that generally can't be legally used let alone pulled. If you re-gear (well sprocket changes) a bike it can make a world of a difference. I did this with my first bike ZX-6R after about 15k miles, took 1 off the front and +2 on the rear sprockets when changing the chain, you won't believe the difference this makes to 'real' world performance for a road only bike.
While adjusting the gearing does make things "quicker" for most road bikes it does have a couple of significant down sides. Firstly, (for me) the bike always feels like you are revving the nuts off it and that you need to change up to a higher gear, even when you're already in top. Secondly, it tends to hit the fuel consumption, especially if you are doing any high speed runs.As has been said, "real world performance" is delivered by lots of torque and broad spread of torque will be even more usable. A single will be quicker/more usable in some circumstances but on the open road a single will run out of breath before you reach the performance levels the road cane safely support. Twins and triples are probably a better solution as they offer a very good compromise with lots of usable real world performance but still with enough top end to ensure you don't run out of go too often.
My "real world" pace is determined far more strongly by respect for the speed limits.... or at least keeping my licence - more than 30mph over = possible instant ban - so I don't want to exceed 100mph, ever (track days are not "real world"). I know it's not "cool", but there you go.
Bikes geared to hit the NSL in first just leave me wondering .
To me, the thing with bikes is not getting held up by the ditherers (apart from the joy of corners, but that can be had in cars, too. Honest!) and pretty much any bike over 125 will sort them out... so ride what you like!
Bikes geared to hit the NSL in first just leave me wondering .
To me, the thing with bikes is not getting held up by the ditherers (apart from the joy of corners, but that can be had in cars, too. Honest!) and pretty much any bike over 125 will sort them out... so ride what you like!
black-k1 said:
While adjusting the gearing does make things "quicker" for most road bikes it does have a couple of significant down sides. Firstly, (for me) the bike always feels like you are revving the nuts off it and that you need to change up to a higher gear, even when you're already in top. Secondly, it tends to hit the fuel consumption, especially if you are doing any high speed runs.
As has been said, "real world performance" is delivered by lots of torque and broad spread of torque will be even more usable. A single will be quicker/more usable in some circumstances but on the open road a single will run out of breath before you reach the performance levels the road cane safely support. Twins and triples are probably a better solution as they offer a very good compromise with lots of usable real world performance but still with enough top end to ensure you don't run out of go too often.
Yep agreed.As has been said, "real world performance" is delivered by lots of torque and broad spread of torque will be even more usable. A single will be quicker/more usable in some circumstances but on the open road a single will run out of breath before you reach the performance levels the road cane safely support. Twins and triples are probably a better solution as they offer a very good compromise with lots of usable real world performance but still with enough top end to ensure you don't run out of go too often.
Naturally the point comes back that gearing changes are not possible easily on shaft drive bikes.
It irrelevant now for me as I've moved on from 600cc rev tastic inline 4s where this gearing change makes the most difference to low down go. Having already done my time with a 1000cc twin, the 1050 triumph triple for me makes the ideal road engine, which is why I'm most likely to own one as my next bike. A quick look at the essentially flat torque curve of a dyno plot from one of these engines will tell you this.
sjtscott said:
Yep agreed.
Naturally the point comes back that gearing changes are not possible easily on shaft drive bikes.
It irrelevant now for me as I've moved on from 600cc rev tastic inline 4s where this gearing change makes the most difference to low down go. Having already done my time with a 1000cc twin, the 1050 triumph triple for me makes the ideal road engine, which is why I'm most likely to own one as my next bike. A quick look at the essentially flat torque curve of a dyno plot from one of these engines will tell you this.
Yep, I've had a couple of 955 speed trips, it is a fantastic engine, gearbox is pretty much redundant!Naturally the point comes back that gearing changes are not possible easily on shaft drive bikes.
It irrelevant now for me as I've moved on from 600cc rev tastic inline 4s where this gearing change makes the most difference to low down go. Having already done my time with a 1000cc twin, the 1050 triumph triple for me makes the ideal road engine, which is why I'm most likely to own one as my next bike. A quick look at the essentially flat torque curve of a dyno plot from one of these engines will tell you this.
sjtscott said:
_DeeJay_ said:
Strangely, the zx10r I have now is by far the easiest bike to make progress on I've ever ridden.
That includes large twins, 600 lightweight inline 4s and single cylinders.
However, it's geared for about 150mph and tuned to over 160hp so it'll accelerate in any gear (apart from 150 in top when I'm generally flailing around attempting to find 7th gear).
I think you answered the question. Gearing. For some reason sports or other powerful bikes are geared for stupid top end ultimate MPH that generally can't be legally used let alone pulled. If you re-gear (well sprocket changes) a bike it can make a world of a difference. I did this with my first bike ZX-6R after about 15k miles, took 1 off the front and +2 on the rear sprockets when changing the chain, you won't believe the difference this makes to 'real' world performance for a road only bike. That includes large twins, 600 lightweight inline 4s and single cylinders.
However, it's geared for about 150mph and tuned to over 160hp so it'll accelerate in any gear (apart from 150 in top when I'm generally flailing around attempting to find 7th gear).
I've never had trouble maxing out any of the bikes I've ridden (400/600/750/900/1000/1200/1300/1400 singles/twins/fours/triples....everything worth riding to date)...have you tried turning the throttle a bit further?
I use my 750 K7 for my daily commute and generally in town tend to pull away quite quickly and short shift through the gears. Progress seems fairly effortless, fuel consumption is quite good (averaged 48mpg over 33k miles) and nothing gets too much of a hammering. I've found the engine very flexible and pulls strongly from almost any revs but naturally it all goes banzai higher up. It's also nice to have the option of leaving it in first or second and just winding the throttle on and off from standstill to 100+ leptons.
Just depends what mood I'm in.
I really need to scratch my Ducati itch, but whilst I like the way a big twin punches out of corners etc, the lazy delivery seems a bit dull in some ways. Although that does seem to be a bit double edged as when I last rode one i found I was going a lot quicker than I realised due to the lazy sounding engine.
I've ridden and owned a couple of two strokes and have to say whilst they are great on the track for the rode they are just a pain in the rear.
As others have said a lot of it comes down to how you like to ride, even a 125 is pretty quick these days.
Just depends what mood I'm in.
I really need to scratch my Ducati itch, but whilst I like the way a big twin punches out of corners etc, the lazy delivery seems a bit dull in some ways. Although that does seem to be a bit double edged as when I last rode one i found I was going a lot quicker than I realised due to the lazy sounding engine.
I've ridden and owned a couple of two strokes and have to say whilst they are great on the track for the rode they are just a pain in the rear.
As others have said a lot of it comes down to how you like to ride, even a 125 is pretty quick these days.
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