Do you use an airbag? D-Air, Tech Air?

[black-k1]

Salted_Peanut said:

I agree: we're at the point with back protectors where if you can't prove something works after 160+ tests, it probably doesn't. Back protectors aren't up to the job. From the evidence, it appears what's vital is protection from impacts that compress the spine – landing on your arse (or on the top your head!).

Thus, coccyx protection could matter more than back protection. I am convinced enough to have sewed a coccyx protector into my bike trousers (cheap to get done). And I'll try to avoid landing upside-down on my head

Prof Prolapse said:

I'm curious why you bought one?

One thing is clear-cut: we need more independent research into our bike kit and what works in reality. It's coming (e.g. the PIONEERS research into airbags). Meanwhile, Ballester et al's research is the most thorough I've found regarding airbags. I've read the paper and was convinced about the need for torso protection – not only the chest but also the sides of the ribcage. I wear Tech-Air.

I hope that independent research will, eventually, steer how airbags evolve. And I'd like to have more neck protection.

I think it's the lack of studies that are the issue, not the lack of protection from a back-protector.

This Italian study suggests use of a back-protector significantly reduces the risk of injury. I not however, it doesn't look for a specific type of injury as the previous study did.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25342252/

The other thing to remember with back protectors (and other body part protectors) is that there are different levels of protection and none of the research appears to distinguish between those levels. The term "foam insert" us used and raises the question of does this include the bits of foam clothing manufacturers included in the armour slots of some clothing. If it does then that foam was never meant to offer any additional protection and was only there as a space filler.

Finally, none of the studies look at the potential for avoiding minor injury. Armour offers the potential to reduce levels of bruising and other minor injury such as broken ribs. That, I'd suggest, is, for most bikers, where the greatest benefit will be delivered.

[Salted_Peanut]

For interest, here’s what the Afquir team found: back protectors don’t protect us from flexion and torsion forces, which are the main cause of spinal injury in two-wheeled motor vehicle (TWMV) accidents. Worse still, back protectors deflect injury to the thoracic spine – a more damaging outcome!

Though I agree regarding bruises etc, and expect that a back protector would also add abrasion resistance if you’re sliding on your back.

Afquir et al. said:

The injury mechanisms did not differ depending on the use of back protection. The axial compression characteristic of type A lesions, according to the Magerl classification system, is the most common mechanism of thoracolumbar injuries. It occurs due to an impact in the craniocaudal direction. Multiple injury mechanisms with potentially multi-directional force loads can occur during TWMV accidents. Back protectors, which are designed to protect users from impacts in a posterior-anterior direction, do not protect riders from the axial forces that cause compression injuries. among the injury data collected from the riders who were not wearing back protectors, very few injuries linked to posterior-anterior impacts could have been avoided by the use of back protection. Thus, it is difficult to draw any conclusions regarding the effectiveness of back protection, given that this type of protector is designed to prevent posterior injuries, which did not appear in the study population.

Other studies suggest that the majority of spinal injuries that occur during TWMV accidents are caused by flexion and torsion forces and not by direct impacts on the vertebral column (de Rome, 2006). Thus, this study highlights the necessity of preventing compression injuries, which, instead of being prevented by wearing a back protector, are deflected to the thoracic spine (lumbar vertebra-medullary lesions are deflected to the thoracic vertebrae), and the medical implications of these injuries are known to be potentially much more significant. This finding clearly defines the challenge of developing new back protectors that prevent these injuries instead of deflecting them to the adjacent spinal segment.

S Afquir et al. Descriptive analysis of the effect of back protector on the prevention of vertebral and thoracolumbar injuries in serious motorcycle accident. Accident Analysis & Prevention, Volume 135, 2020, 105331, ISSN 0001-4575, DOI: 10.1016/j.aap.2019.105331

Edited by Salted_Peanut on Thursday 4th March 09:12

[WarnieV6GT]

After losing my perfectly fit and healthy Dad to covid last month I feel I need to do my best to avoid a repeat of the utter devastation his loss has left us with.

So to continue doing something I love I've decided to get an airbag vest.

I'm trying to decide between the black helite turtle e-vest and the alpinestars tech air 5.

The advantage of the alpinestars is the shoulder protection and it goes underneath the jacket. But it has no neck protection.

The helite seems to offer better protection including the neck, but has no shoulder protection. It is also the cheapest to maintain, but to be honest if i have a few offs then I'll probably consider packing it in anyway. It also doesn't look great as its on top of the jacket but I'm 41 so might be past that stage now....

[anonymous-user]

I'm going to go for the new RST jacket. Looks good value.

[Iminquarantine]

WarnieV6GT said:

After losing my perfectly fit and healthy Dad to covid last month I feel I need to do my best to avoid a repeat of the utter devastation his loss has left us with.

So to continue doing something I love I've decided to get an airbag vest.

I'm trying to decide between the black helite turtle e-vest and the alpinestars tech air 5.

The advantage of the alpinestars is the shoulder protection and it goes underneath the jacket. But it has no neck protection.

The helite seems to offer better protection including the neck, but has no shoulder protection. It is also the cheapest to maintain, but to be honest if i have a few offs then I'll probably consider packing it in anyway. It also doesn't look great as its on top of the jacket but I'm 41 so might be past that stage now....

Sorry to hear about your dad.

I have had the Helite tethered best for a while now, although only in cold weather months. The electronic version appears the same vest, but with electronics. I like it’s simplicity. I find it unobtrusive. You are not committed to a particular jacket. It is big if you plan to put it in your bike luggage.


Sorry again a little you dad; hope you got to spend some good times with him.

[Bungleaio]

Dorry about your dad.

I have the helite turtle which I've covered about 15k miles wearing it, never needed its protection qualities but who knows how much the high viz element has helped me out. I'm too old to worry about what people think about what I look like when I'm wearing it.

I wore it through the really hot summer of 2018 over the top of a mesh jacket and didn't suffer with the heat.

[arcticGT]

Looking at the various in&motion vests at the moment. All of them seem expensive when RST can produce a jacket with the same bag sewn in for less?

Prices are more reasonable if buying from Europe but then there’s VAT to add now.

[Pazuzu]

I actually have the Helite Touring Jacket for the colder months and a Helite Mesh Jacket for warm months.

Same lanyard on the bike for both so can just bung whichever one on.

Suited me better than an over vest personally and they are nice jackets.

[Salted_Peanut]

WarnieV6GT said:

I'm trying to decide between the black helite turtle e-vest and the alpinestars tech air 5.

Firstly, I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. My deepest sympathies.

While I haven't crash tested it, I have had an Alpinestars Tech-Air and have been extremely happy with it. I'm a fan of the shoulder protection because, from what I've read, a big hit on the shoulder can cause spinal injury through twisting. But I'd rather it had neck protection too.

Regarding the Heltite E-Turtle (which looks excellent with the fork sensors), MotoVibes did a review on YouTube: E-TURTLE Airbag Vest Initial Review & Comparision.

MotoVibes previously wore a tethered Helite but it didn't inflate quickly enough in a crash. He was filming at the time, and you can see the tethered airbag inflate after he's already hit the ground. Hence the upgrade to the E-Turtle.

Edited by Salted_Peanut on Sunday 7th March 15:36

[Bob_Defly]

I'm torn on these.

I think I would like one, like everyone else I want to keep riding/living for years to come. But where I live in the Summer it regularly gets up to 40C, so anything that adds any sort of unbreathable layer isn't going to be good for concentration. Plus I don't like the hi viz.

Maybe I'll wait until the tech gets a bit better/smaller/cheaper. I like the thought of just buying one and using it with multiple jackets.

[Janluke]

Bob_Defly said:

I'm torn on these.

I think I would like one, like everyone else I want to keep riding/living for years to come. But where I live in the Summer it regularly gets up to 40C, so anything that adds any sort of unbreathable layer isn't going to be good for concentration. Plus I don't like the hi viz.

Maybe I'll wait until the tech gets a bit better/smaller/cheaper. I like the thought of just buying one and using it with multiple jackets.

HiViz isnt an issue as you can get the helite in black but the heat maybe, while its comfortable on, it is quite bulky. In the very warm weather I wear mine over my knox armour shirt but you don't get the same airflow on your torso

[3nduro]

Salted_Peanut said:

While I haven't crash tested it, I have had an Alpinestars Tech-Air and have been extremely happy with it. I'm a fan of the shoulder protection because, from what I've read, a big hit on the shoulder can cause spinal injury through twisting. But I'd rather it had neck protection too.

Regarding the Heltite E-Turtle (which looks excellent with the fork sensors), MotoVibes did a review on YouTube: E-TURTLE Airbag Vest Initial Review & Comparision.

MotoVibes previously wore a tethered Helite but it didn't inflate quickly enough in a crash. He was filming at the time, and you can see the tethered airbag inflate after he's already hit the ground. Hence the upgrade to the E-Turtle.

Edited by Salted_Peanut on Sunday 7th March 15:36

I crashed a helite track version last year and didnt have any major issues ....low speed highside in the wet - it was a tethered model.

but i am interested in the tech 5 for the shoulder cover you mentioned. - now more confused than ever cos i like the neck protection from the helite

[teddosan]

3nduro said:

I crashed a helite track version last year and didnt have any major issues ....low speed highside in the wet - it was a tethered model.

but i am interested in the tech 5 for the shoulder cover you mentioned. - now more confused than ever cos i like the neck protection from the helite

I think the Tech 5, when inflated, does provide some neck protection, purely by dint of how much shoulder protection it provides. I also like the fact it will work when rear-ended which not all the electric ones do.

[gland]

Great to see the thread still going! I ended up buying the Alpinestars Street air vest and used it for around 20,000 miles.

Then about six months ago I got the TechAir 5 vest so I could use it under any jacket I wanted. The difference in comfort is massive! The original was heavy, inflexible and never really fitted the curve of my back but I kept wearing it and got used to it. I think I have an odd shaped back...

The Tech 5 has a much smaller thinner rigid area for the hardware leaving the rest of the back to feel and flex just like a normal back protector. I miss not seeing the lights on my arm and it won't recalibrate for track but I still have the TechAir Street which will take Race firmware. I don't look forward to wearing it again though. The Tech 5 really is brilliant.

The Helite vests might be better protection in some respects, but the best protection is the one you wear. I still can't abide the look of the Helites, black or yellow, so Alpinestars is the best one for me. I've never needed it, I don't intend to fall much and if I ever do the cost of recharge/repair will fall into insignificance.

Edited by gland on Monday 8th March 14:51

[gland]

You can now switch between Race and Street on the Tech Air 5 vest. Switches in seconds. My original Tech Air might never be worn again.

If anyone has one: go the phone app > settings > software. Then choose to download the new firmware.

[Krikkit]

Great info, thanks!

Do you take the original back protector out when using it?

Edit: Never mind, just seen a picture of it and it does have a back protector too. Nice.

Edited by Krikkit on Thursday 18th March 12:21

[hellsbuddha]

I maybe in the market for one but as one of those over vests. Has anyone tried the hit-air? Apparently they have improved the inflation times and there seems to be more neck protection than the Helite.

Also I don’t know much about cleaning the hit air as the back of my jacket gets filthy in winter, despite the OEM tail bits. Nor can I find out about what to do post inflation.

Thanks

[Salted_Peanut]

Now that electronic airbags are well-established, I think the value of Hit-Air has deflated. Price permitting, why not get a Helite E-Turtle? The inflation time is far more rapid than Hit-Air and previous Helite airbags. And the E-Turtle's neck protection looks good to me.

[lukeyman]

Is the Tech Air 5 tempting anyone else at the £520 mark?

[Krikkit]

lukeyman said:

Is the Tech Air 5 tempting anyone else at the £520 mark?

It's certainly tempting me, although maybe over winter rather than right now.