Who's going to the TT this year?
Discussion
I am not quite sure why I am bothering to write this, as some people on here do seem to be completely and utterly blinkered to the lure and draw of the TT and the fact that to race on roads such as the TT is somewhat foolhardy, irresponsible and in need of banning.
I have been a road racer, as a privateer, for a good number of years now. I started off doing short circuit stuff but did my first road race in the Isle of Man at the Southern 100. Immediately I was hooked. I have since done virtually no short circuit stuff (not because I am slower on the circuit than the roads) but because I am drawn to the road races. Now I do not consider myself to be a sandwich short of a picnic. I have a regular day job where I run a boating business and petrol station with a great friend of mine. I also play sax in a soul and funk band. So, I consider myself a pretty grounded individual. My piss therefore gets well and truly boiled when accusations are made as to the sanity or ability of us road racers and that we all have a death wish. We all participate in the sport fully aware of the risks and this is something that we do of our own free will. Nobody is pointing a gun to our heads to compete. Nobody is promising huge piles of cash to compete. In fact the sport costs us all dearly. The TT as a privateer will cost in the region of £10-12,000. So, please don't go judging our abilities, our sanity or such like. I have known and lost a good number of friends to the sport, but I can guarantee that none of these felt obliged to participate, they all did it of their own free will and for the love of the greatest sport known to man. Our rationale and mental state is quite normal, in fact a great friend of mine is racing at the TT this year (and doing very well in all his classes) and he is a nuclear engineer. Racing a bike on any road race circuit is not easy, your head is processing so much information and analysing exactly what is going on and how much further you can push, for lap after lap on a circuit that is doing its level best to throw you off the bike, but yet you still have to analyse how much to push with the knowledge that pushing too far can result in some dire consequences.
I apologise for the rant here, but there are a couple of people commenting on here that clearly are totally and utterly clueless and at times quite offensive with their views on road racing and the people like me who compete in it. I would happily talk for hours and relay stories and impart my knowledge with anyone with an interest in the sport, but what I cannot abide is people who think they know everything but in actual fact know everything about nothing.
I have been a road racer, as a privateer, for a good number of years now. I started off doing short circuit stuff but did my first road race in the Isle of Man at the Southern 100. Immediately I was hooked. I have since done virtually no short circuit stuff (not because I am slower on the circuit than the roads) but because I am drawn to the road races. Now I do not consider myself to be a sandwich short of a picnic. I have a regular day job where I run a boating business and petrol station with a great friend of mine. I also play sax in a soul and funk band. So, I consider myself a pretty grounded individual. My piss therefore gets well and truly boiled when accusations are made as to the sanity or ability of us road racers and that we all have a death wish. We all participate in the sport fully aware of the risks and this is something that we do of our own free will. Nobody is pointing a gun to our heads to compete. Nobody is promising huge piles of cash to compete. In fact the sport costs us all dearly. The TT as a privateer will cost in the region of £10-12,000. So, please don't go judging our abilities, our sanity or such like. I have known and lost a good number of friends to the sport, but I can guarantee that none of these felt obliged to participate, they all did it of their own free will and for the love of the greatest sport known to man. Our rationale and mental state is quite normal, in fact a great friend of mine is racing at the TT this year (and doing very well in all his classes) and he is a nuclear engineer. Racing a bike on any road race circuit is not easy, your head is processing so much information and analysing exactly what is going on and how much further you can push, for lap after lap on a circuit that is doing its level best to throw you off the bike, but yet you still have to analyse how much to push with the knowledge that pushing too far can result in some dire consequences.
I apologise for the rant here, but there are a couple of people commenting on here that clearly are totally and utterly clueless and at times quite offensive with their views on road racing and the people like me who compete in it. I would happily talk for hours and relay stories and impart my knowledge with anyone with an interest in the sport, but what I cannot abide is people who think they know everything but in actual fact know everything about nothing.
M666 EVO said:
Too many good sports have had drastic changes (F1, group B completely banned) so maybe it is a good thing to have such a raw sport unchanged but how long can it last? How many deaths is acceptable?
How long can it last? Well I went to the TT in 1990 (only time I've managed to get over there and loved it) and the very same (but pre-internet obviously) discussion was going on via the TV, letters to MCN and other bike mags...I can't remember how many racers (or visitors) were killed that year although I do recall racing being delayed when a German rider, not a racer, was killed taking an early morning fast lap and went head on into a milk delivery van he obviously didn't expect to be around (the bike was on the wrong side of the road taking the racing line I guess)
Every year the TT comes round and every year there's a discussion about how dangerous it is and that it should be stopped. I, for one, hope it never does and as long as the IOM make their own decisions I think it will carry on.
peterg1955 said:
M666 EVO said:
Too many good sports have had drastic changes (F1, group B completely banned) so maybe it is a good thing to have such a raw sport unchanged but how long can it last? How many deaths is acceptable?
How long can it last? Well I went to the TT in 1990 (only time I've managed to get over there and loved it) and the very same (but pre-internet obviously) discussion was going on via the TV, letters to MCN and other bike mags...I can't remember how many racers (or visitors) were killed that year although I do recall racing being delayed when a German rider, not a racer, was killed taking an early morning fast lap and went head on into a milk delivery van he obviously didn't expect to be around (the bike was on the wrong side of the road taking the racing line I guess)
Every year the TT comes round and every year there's a discussion about how dangerous it is and that it should be stopped. I, for one, hope it never does and as long as the IOM make their own decisions I think it will carry on.
robinh73, I for one would love to hear more about your experiences at the TT and road racing in general. I've always wanted to know whether there are certain sections that a rider will be much more careful on because they would not crash well, or is it all treated the same and crashing generally put out of mind.
TurbosSuck said:
robinh73, I for one would love to hear more about your experiences at the TT and road racing in general. I've always wanted to know whether there are certain sections that a rider will be much more careful on because they would not crash well, or is it all treated the same and crashing generally put out of mind.
Cheers for that! Well, to start off then, any questions, please let me know and I will do my best to answer them. As for certain sections on a road race and the crash prospect, I personally do have some corners on some circuits that I do commit with a little bit less conviction, maybe go in at something like 85-90%. One is Joey's Windmill at the Ulster Grand Prix which is a right to left combination with a banking either side and hedge, so no room for error. In terms of speed, it is a 3rd/4th gear corner so probably entering at about 100-120 or so I guess. It just puts the willies up me, as I have seen the results of it going wrong and it can cause carnage. Another is the left hander entering memorial at Oliver's Mount in Scarborough. You approach down the back straight, the cafe (which is remarkably solid looking) dead ahead of you flat out in top gear. Hard on the brakes and bang down the gearbox from 6th to 2nd and then drop the bike in. I had a low side there in 2016 and since then I have always been a bit wary of the actual corner ever since. Having said that, in September last year there, I managed to knock 3 seconds off my lap time and was going in to that corner hotter than I had done previously.
Robinh73, excellent write up and honest piece.
There are hundreds of thousands of people who are in awe of what road racers do and that is why we all travel to the IOM, Ireland etc year after year to watch this fantastic sport.
The Chunders etc of this world are in the minority and their opinion does not matter. If you enjoy your sport carry on and those of us that love watching will carry on. There is no point worrying about those that feel the need to comment on this, when if it bothered them that much they would not go seeking out the forum and making comment.
There are hundreds of thousands of people who are in awe of what road racers do and that is why we all travel to the IOM, Ireland etc year after year to watch this fantastic sport.
The Chunders etc of this world are in the minority and their opinion does not matter. If you enjoy your sport carry on and those of us that love watching will carry on. There is no point worrying about those that feel the need to comment on this, when if it bothered them that much they would not go seeking out the forum and making comment.
Edited by the_nurse46 on Tuesday 5th June 12:14
robinh73 said:
I cannot abide is people who think they know everything but in actual fact know everything about nothing.
This is PH and the place is full of them. Like the bloke on the other TT thread who declared his Renault Megane 225 would match the 134mph bike lap record. Until somebody pointed out the bikes are making about the same power as his car. Somebody else thought their M4 BMW would be comepetive. Idiots. The main reason I hang around as I enjoy mocking them.
wormus said:
This is PH and the place is full of them. Like the bloke on the other TT thread who declared his Renault Megane 225 would match the 134mph bike lap record. Until somebody pointed out the bikes are making about the same power as his car. Somebody else thought their M4 BMW would be comepetive. Idiots.
The main reason I hang around as I enjoy mocking them.
Which thread is that?The main reason I hang around as I enjoy mocking them.
wormus said:
robinh73 said:
I cannot abide is people who think they know everything but in actual fact know everything about nothing.
This is PH and the place is full of them. Like the bloke on the other TT thread who declared his Renault Megane 225 would match the 134mph bike lap record. Until somebody pointed out the bikes are making about the same power as his car. Somebody else thought their M4 BMW would be comepetive. Idiots. The main reason I hang around as I enjoy mocking them.
ash73 said:
robinh73 said:
TurbosSuck said:
robinh73, I for one would love to hear more about your experiences at the TT and road racing in general. I've always wanted to know whether there are certain sections that a rider will be much more careful on because they would not crash well, or is it all treated the same and crashing generally put out of mind.
Cheers for that! Well, to start off then, any questions, please let me know and I will do my best to answer them. As for certain sections on a road race and the crash prospect, I personally do have some corners on some circuits that I do commit with a little bit less conviction, maybe go in at something like 85-90%. One is Joey's Windmill at the Ulster Grand Prix which is a right to left combination with a banking either side and hedge, so no room for error. In terms of speed, it is a 3rd/4th gear corner so probably entering at about 100-120 or so I guess. It just puts the willies up me, as I have seen the results of it going wrong and it can cause carnage. Another is the left hander entering memorial at Oliver's Mount in Scarborough. You approach down the back straight, the cafe (which is remarkably solid looking) dead ahead of you flat out in top gear. Hard on the brakes and bang down the gearbox from 6th to 2nd and then drop the bike in. I had a low side there in 2016 and since then I have always been a bit wary of the actual corner ever since. Having said that, in September last year there, I managed to knock 3 seconds off my lap time and was going in to that corner hotter than I had done previously.
p.s. You can block trolls using TamperMonkey rather than wasting time replying to them:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
As I say, I am more than happy to share my experiences on here.
Excellent, thanks for the reply! I do have a few more questions if you don't mind...
In yesterday's race there was a fatal crash on the third lap, how does a race continue in these circumstances considering that the other races must come back around to the accident spot?
When you first decided to take part in road racing how did your friends & family react? Did anyone tell you not do to it?
Have you had any 'moments' / near misses that you think would have been particularly nasty crashes?
Thanks
In yesterday's race there was a fatal crash on the third lap, how does a race continue in these circumstances considering that the other races must come back around to the accident spot?
When you first decided to take part in road racing how did your friends & family react? Did anyone tell you not do to it?
Have you had any 'moments' / near misses that you think would have been particularly nasty crashes?
Thanks
TurbosSuck said:
Excellent, thanks for the reply! I do have a few more questions if you don't mind...
In yesterday's race there was a fatal crash on the third lap, how does a race continue in these circumstances considering that the other races must come back around to the accident spot?
When you first decided to take part in road racing how did your friends & family react? Did anyone tell you not do to it?
Have you had any 'moments' / near misses that you think would have been particularly nasty crashes?
Thanks
Not at all, only too happy to answer.In yesterday's race there was a fatal crash on the third lap, how does a race continue in these circumstances considering that the other races must come back around to the accident spot?
When you first decided to take part in road racing how did your friends & family react? Did anyone tell you not do to it?
Have you had any 'moments' / near misses that you think would have been particularly nasty crashes?
Thanks
With a big incident, it really depends on where and how it happened and how this will affect the oncoming riders. The TT is unique in the fact that it is a staggered start rather than a mass start and as such takes a lot more marshalling power and communication. If the incident is clear of the circuit and does not affect marshalls or riders, then the racing will continue. From my own experience, last year at the Ulster GP, one of the races I was in, a friend of mine and his brother were battling for a place, when unfortunately they came together. Jamie Hodson sadly lost his life at the scene, but his brother Rob carried on unaware. The race was red flagged as it was on a section of the circuit where it just gets too tight for medical attention and an ambulance. In all honesty, the TT is unique in the fact that it does take quite a lot for a race to be stopped/red flagged. At Oliver's Mount another friend Billy Redmayne lost his life in the sighting lap and that resulted in the meeting being abandoned. In terms of a personal and emotional thing, the first time you pass the scene of a crash, particularly one where a rider has lost their life, it does give you a strange sensation, but from thereon in, you put it to the back of your mind and almost think "it won't happen to me".
When I did start road racing, I didn't really talk about it with people, especially my parents. I still to this day don't really discuss it. I just get on with it and make sure that my dad is the first to know I am safe and sound after a race. I lost my mum about 18 months ago and her and dad used to love coming to watch when I started racing at circuits, but I didn't really want them to come to see the road racing. I did show them clips when I was on TV at meetings and they loved that though.
I have had quite a few moments, a few hefty crashes and the 2 incidents that really got me were last year, both at the Ulster GP, where a bike decided to try for an overtake on a very fast bit of the course, but he didn't take into account the S bend coming up and he ran wide. The edge of the circuit is surrounded by earth banks and there is no room for error. He just scraped the bank, kicked up a load of dust, but at this point was only about 15 feet in front of me or so. I just remember thinking that this is going to be a big one as we would have both come off, along with the 8 or so lads behind me. Luckily, he held it together, got back on line and I nipped past him to gain a place!
Again at the Ulster, beginning of lap 2, I was with a group of about 6 others and we were just starting the long straight up towards Deer's Leap. It is a first gear corner, then hard on the gas and through the gears right up into top. Anyway, lad leading the pack gives it too much welly, and highsides right in front of me. There are 2 bikes in front of me, the fallen bike going one way and the fallen rider the other way. I hit the front brake and pick my line to avoid hitting him or his bike. Again and luckily, I avoid all contact and was able to get back on the power as he slid out of my way. Very lucky indeed. The following pictures show me (number 32) trying to avoid the mayhem.
Wow those pictures are insane! Thank you for such an in depth answer and sorry to hear about your mum. I'm not sure whether you have mentioned it, but do you still race?
I'm hoping to do my first track day next year, nothing like the adrenalin rush of road racing of course but I can't wait!
I'm hoping to do my first track day next year, nothing like the adrenalin rush of road racing of course but I can't wait!
TurbosSuck said:
Wow those pictures are insane! Thank you for such an in depth answer and sorry to hear about your mum. I'm not sure whether you have mentioned it, but do you still race?
I'm hoping to do my first track day next year, nothing like the adrenalin rush of road racing of course but I can't wait!
Some of the photos that come back are just superb! Cheers for the wishes about mum, it was a massive loss, but for the best for her sadly. I'm hoping to do my first track day next year, nothing like the adrenalin rush of road racing of course but I can't wait!
I do still race but I am taking a bit of time out to save some cash in preparation for changing class up to the 1000cc machines next year.
I am sure you will love doing track days. It is simply the most amazing feeling being able to use a bike properly. What bike will you be using? Any tips you need, let me know (and I don't mean to be patronising there, but first track days can be daunting).
ash73 said:
TurbosSuck said:
Wow those pictures are insane!
Yup, brilliant. Finally the thread is delivering. What a great opportunity to chat with racers first hand.
robinh73 said:
Not at all, only too happy to answer.
With a big incident, it really depends on where and how it happened and how this will affect the oncoming riders. The TT is unique in the fact that it is a staggered start rather than a mass start and as such takes a lot more marshalling power and communication. If the incident is clear of the circuit and does not affect marshalls or riders, then the racing will continue. From my own experience, last year at the Ulster GP, one of the races I was in, a friend of mine and his brother were battling for a place, when unfortunately they came together. Jamie Hodson sadly lost his life at the scene, but his brother Rob carried on unaware. The race was red flagged as it was on a section of the circuit where it just gets too tight for medical attention and an ambulance. In all honesty, the TT is unique in the fact that it does take quite a lot for a race to be stopped/red flagged. At Oliver's Mount another friend Billy Redmayne lost his life in the sighting lap and that resulted in the meeting being abandoned. In terms of a personal and emotional thing, the first time you pass the scene of a crash, particularly one where a rider has lost their life, it does give you a strange sensation, but from thereon in, you put it to the back of your mind and almost think "it won't happen to me".
When I did start road racing, I didn't really talk about it with people, especially my parents. I still to this day don't really discuss it. I just get on with it and make sure that my dad is the first to know I am safe and sound after a race. I lost my mum about 18 months ago and her and dad used to love coming to watch when I started racing at circuits, but I didn't really want them to come to see the road racing. I did show them clips when I was on TV at meetings and they loved that though.
I have had quite a few moments, a few hefty crashes and the 2 incidents that really got me were last year, both at the Ulster GP, where a bike decided to try for an overtake on a very fast bit of the course, but he didn't take into account the S bend coming up and he ran wide. The edge of the circuit is surrounded by earth banks and there is no room for error. He just scraped the bank, kicked up a load of dust, but at this point was only about 15 feet in front of me or so. I just remember thinking that this is going to be a big one as we would have both come off, along with the 8 or so lads behind me. Luckily, he held it together, got back on line and I nipped past him to gain a place!
Again at the Ulster, beginning of lap 2, I was with a group of about 6 others and we were just starting the long straight up towards Deer's Leap. It is a first gear corner, then hard on the gas and through the gears right up into top. Anyway, lad leading the pack gives it too much welly, and highsides right in front of me. There are 2 bikes in front of me, the fallen bike going one way and the fallen rider the other way. I hit the front brake and pick my line to avoid hitting him or his bike. Again and luckily, I avoid all contact and was able to get back on the power as he slid out of my way. Very lucky indeed. The following pictures show me (number 32) trying to avoid the mayhem.
Awesome detailed write up that demonstrates the risks v reward of road racing - really enjoyed reading that! With a big incident, it really depends on where and how it happened and how this will affect the oncoming riders. The TT is unique in the fact that it is a staggered start rather than a mass start and as such takes a lot more marshalling power and communication. If the incident is clear of the circuit and does not affect marshalls or riders, then the racing will continue. From my own experience, last year at the Ulster GP, one of the races I was in, a friend of mine and his brother were battling for a place, when unfortunately they came together. Jamie Hodson sadly lost his life at the scene, but his brother Rob carried on unaware. The race was red flagged as it was on a section of the circuit where it just gets too tight for medical attention and an ambulance. In all honesty, the TT is unique in the fact that it does take quite a lot for a race to be stopped/red flagged. At Oliver's Mount another friend Billy Redmayne lost his life in the sighting lap and that resulted in the meeting being abandoned. In terms of a personal and emotional thing, the first time you pass the scene of a crash, particularly one where a rider has lost their life, it does give you a strange sensation, but from thereon in, you put it to the back of your mind and almost think "it won't happen to me".
When I did start road racing, I didn't really talk about it with people, especially my parents. I still to this day don't really discuss it. I just get on with it and make sure that my dad is the first to know I am safe and sound after a race. I lost my mum about 18 months ago and her and dad used to love coming to watch when I started racing at circuits, but I didn't really want them to come to see the road racing. I did show them clips when I was on TV at meetings and they loved that though.
I have had quite a few moments, a few hefty crashes and the 2 incidents that really got me were last year, both at the Ulster GP, where a bike decided to try for an overtake on a very fast bit of the course, but he didn't take into account the S bend coming up and he ran wide. The edge of the circuit is surrounded by earth banks and there is no room for error. He just scraped the bank, kicked up a load of dust, but at this point was only about 15 feet in front of me or so. I just remember thinking that this is going to be a big one as we would have both come off, along with the 8 or so lads behind me. Luckily, he held it together, got back on line and I nipped past him to gain a place!
Again at the Ulster, beginning of lap 2, I was with a group of about 6 others and we were just starting the long straight up towards Deer's Leap. It is a first gear corner, then hard on the gas and through the gears right up into top. Anyway, lad leading the pack gives it too much welly, and highsides right in front of me. There are 2 bikes in front of me, the fallen bike going one way and the fallen rider the other way. I hit the front brake and pick my line to avoid hitting him or his bike. Again and luckily, I avoid all contact and was able to get back on the power as he slid out of my way. Very lucky indeed. The following pictures show me (number 32) trying to avoid the mayhem.
A few You Tube links to the Ulster GP, my favourite of all the road races.
In the first clip, I am the bike that is just passing at about 35 seconds as the camera pans round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF3YIKWnd6E
This clip shows a mix of the Ulster GP and Dundrod races. The incident I mentioned with one guy running wide in my earlier post can be seen at 7.05 here with me having a squeaky bum moment for a few seconds after that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB8zu7s5BaU
In the first clip, I am the bike that is just passing at about 35 seconds as the camera pans round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF3YIKWnd6E
This clip shows a mix of the Ulster GP and Dundrod races. The incident I mentioned with one guy running wide in my earlier post can be seen at 7.05 here with me having a squeaky bum moment for a few seconds after that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB8zu7s5BaU
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