Will there be a next gamechanger?

[Zoot_C]

cmaguire said:

Changed the world of 750s more like. By cheating. But that's par for the course. Cue the V4 already mentioned, although the cheating is at least only on the road now.

Hey. I'm not about to get into a pissing contest seeing as I only just arrived here ( never knew PH had a bikes section and I'm pretty blasé about my cars ) so you see it how you see it. Enjoy your riding

[cmaguire]

Zoot_C said:

Hey. I'm not about to get into a pissing contest seeing as I only just arrived here ( never knew PH had a bikes section and I'm pretty blasé about my cars ) so you see it how you see it. Enjoy your riding

I'm only stating facts and my dick is still in my trousers.

If this were about purely standout bikes then the 916 would have to qualify.

[Plinth]

Not a game changer in terms of technology, but the Yamaha RD250LC “helped” to bring in the 125cc learner bike.
Certainly “changed the game” for the young L-plate riders at the time!

(Though it could be argued that the Suzuki X7 was also involved...)

[Kneedragger95]

mckeann said:

The most advanced moto gp inspired machine yet, and it breaks the rules regarding 600 and 1000. Game changer.

It won't really be breaking the rules though as the top version V4R is going to have a 1000cc engine.
I think the only way it'll change the game with regards to breaking the 1000cc rules will be if every other manufacturer decides to up the capacity of their bikes.

[mckeann]

Zoot_C said:

I'm baffled why the Ducati 916 didn't get a mention. That changed the world of litre superbikes forever.

I'm a bit 'meh' about the Ducati V4 as of yet. I will wait for the homologation version as usual.

but, well..


https://youtu.be/S0JYB4aI3-c

Edited by Zoot_C on Sunday 21st January 17:14

How can a 916cc twin change the world of litre bikes??

Also, it's was 114bhp, 98 less than the V4. I know which I'm more excited about

[King Herald]

Gnits said:

.
Perhaps the next game changer will be a change in direction from them and encourage more biking as a way of easing congestion / parking etc.

Aren’t they doing the exact polar opposite with this congestion/emission charges crap in London though?

Or is that more of a ploy bought in/brought in by manufacturers keen to sell more new bikes, and nothing to actually do with pollution?

[BobSaunders]

Electric will be the next big game changer.

[mckeann]

Kneedragger95 said:

It won't really be breaking the rules though as the top version V4R is going to have a 1000cc engine.
I think the only way it'll change the game with regards to breaking the 1000cc rules will be if every other manufacturer decides to up the capacity of their bikes.

Breaks the rules as in, doesn't follow the accepted guidelines that road bikes have to be hamstrung by racing rules.

[srob]

cmaguire said:

Totally disagree with this.
Monocoque chassis, engines as stressed members, latest Ducati that barely has a frame.
These aren't the result of slight refinements over the pressed steel frames or cradle steel frames of yesteryear.

Really?

1921 Neracar, complete with monocoque frame:



Engines as a stressed member is almost as old as motorcycling. Bradbury had frame tubes cast into the engine in the 1900s.

P&M (later to become Panther) from the 1920s:





Vincent frame:

[Zoot_C]

mckeann said:

How can a 916cc twin change the world of litre bikes??

Also, it's was 114bhp, 98 less than the V4. I know which I'm more excited about

Really? Do you recall what came before? In form alone it redefined what a superbike should look like, as seen in all that came after it.

But as I said, didn't come for an argument, especially over subjective opinion.

[King Herald]

srob said:

Really?

1921 Neracar, complete with monocoque frame.....

A visit to the National Motorcycle Museum is an eye opener to how far we haven’t really progressed in the last 100 years.

[moto_traxport]

cmaguire said:

poo at Paul's said:

1998 R1 was a game changer too

Ultimately the stacked gearbox is the main talking point on that though, the bike represents a marked step forward in performance/capability but I would say that is only a refinement of the ethos that the FireBlade set.
It is a standout bike though

TDM850 had a stacked gearbox in 1991 and srob will find something from 1928 I'm sure!

R1 was overrall package thing with engineers just using what was appropriate.

I thought the list went:

CB750
GPZ900
GSXR750
FireBlade
916
R1
GSXR1000K5
S1000RR
Bosch IMU


On a related topic why we've had pretty much the same wheel & tyre sizes for 30 years seems odd to me. Particularly as people always talk about contact patch when having one of those pointless car vs bike conversations.

I think MotoGP are up to 4" front wheels now. Stop fiddling and stick 6" on the front and 10" on the back!

(Power steering shortly after presumably)

[CoolHands]

Honda x-adv. cross between scooter and bike, semi-auto, love it.

[srob]

King Herald said:

A visit to the National Motorcycle Museum is an eye opener to how far we haven’t really progressed in the last 100 years.

Absolutely.

I learned the other day that the first disc braked motorcycle was built in 1906. I knew that Douglas made a disc style brake in the 20s but the 'pad' acted radially on the disc on that. In 1906 a company called Imperial made a bike with a current design disc, pad and calliper arrangement.

[LuS1fer]

cmaguire said:

LuS1fer said:

In my obviously longer life, the CB750F and the Gold Wing GL1000 were gamechangers.

This isn't really about the bikes specifically, but the technological changes they represented.
So the C50 is irrelevant too

Water cooled flat four, shaft drive, belt driven ohc, dummy tank to keep c of g low, refinement hitherto unknown for swallowing continents?

[cmaguire]

srob said:

cmaguire said:

Totally disagree with this.
Monocoque chassis, engines as stressed members, latest Ducati that barely has a frame.
These aren't the result of slight refinements over the pressed steel frames or cradle steel frames of yesteryear.

Really?

1921 Neracar, complete with monocoque frame:



Engines as a stressed member is almost as old as motorcycling. Bradbury had frame tubes cast into the engine in the 1900s.

P&M (later to become Panther) from the 1920s:





Vincent frame:

I half expected this what with you being an old bike nerd, and it doesn't particularly surprise me that many if not all have appeared previously. But in over a century it is in some ways inevitable that all manner of different variations will have been tried, perhaps many only for the sake of doing something different.
What is relevant and important in my opinion is where those choices have been made and the result has been a significant performance advantage over what went before, with the result that what comes after is then influenced by that choice. Alloy beam frames for example.

[cmaguire]

Srob, feel free to say what you think were previous gamechangers. I only mentioned a couple of bikes specifically (particularly the FireBlade as I would say that is still the most influential bike in my lifetime so far) because my thoughts were more about what is next rather than what came before.

Somewhere along the line telescopic front suspension in its current guise would likely be an obvious one

[srob]

cmaguire said:

Srob, feel free to say what you think were previous gamechangers. I only mentioned a couple of bikes specifically (particularly the FireBlade as I would say that is still the most influential bike in my lifetime so far) because my thoughts were more about what is next rather than what came before.

Somewhere along the line telescopic front suspension in its current guise would likely be an obvious one

Contrary to what you clearly think, I'm as - if not more - interested in what's coming next than what's been before. You may think I'm an old bike 'nerd' but I just have an interest in anything to do with motorcycling.

The next obvious game changer will be a significant improvement in battery operated bikes. I also think that variable wheelbase, two wheel drive, adaptive aero' and even two wheel steer bikes will appear at some point.

I can see a day when you buy a bike frame, a set of battery cells and various body kits that you can put onto the frame. Quick Sunday blast; put two cells in to save weight at the cost of range. The handlebars and footrests could easily adapt into a sports position, you clip your sports fairing on and away you go.

Off-roading; set the suspension to long travel, put your off-road bodywork on and away you go.

Touring; put that bodywork on, set your bars and pegs and put all ten (or whatever) battery cells in and away you go.

[cmaguire]

It appears to me that batteries (electricity storage to be specific) are the solution to many of the problems society believes important.

[Pothole]

cmaguire said:

Kneedragger95 said:

I think Forced Induction could well become the norm in the next decade. We're already seeing Kawasaki pushing supercharging with their H2 series of bikes.
Energy recovery systems are also another good shout, these would have to become a lot more compact and lighter though for it to really take off.

I wonder if we'll begin to see these technologies in MotoGP in the near future?

There is supposed to be electric racing at MotoGP events from 2019. Capirossi is testing, one make series with Energica .

I thought their bikes looked superb and felt great to sit on at the NEC the other month. Surely at the rate materials tech is moving battery life (and therefrom, range) and quick charging can't be far off, can they?