Why I'll never take a bike to the ring...

[anonymous-user]

y2blade said:

sounds like you're on your own BLACK-K1

everyone else see's this differantly to you!?! surely you cant be wrong?

I don't - i see it exactly as K1 has said.

Wether anyone thinks the rider took a risk or not is irrelevant. The FACT is, that he was not breaking any traffic laws which apply to the Nurburgring, The driver of the BMW was breaking the law.

Also he'd just been overtaken by another bike, just before the incident. If he wasn't paying attention before then, you'd think that a passing bike would've made him look in his mirror for the likely posibility that there was more traffic waiting to pass.

I wonder if many of the "poor observation" brigade, would have the same attitude if they were knocked off their bike by a car on a dual carriage way, that suddenly swapped LANES without any indication or warning - but of course, you'd have seen it coming, wouldn't you?

[trumpet600]

JS99 said:

I don't - i see it exactly as K1 has said.

Wether anyone thinks the rider took a risk or not is irrelevant. The FACT is, that he was not breaking any traffic laws which apply to the Nurburgring, The driver of the BMW was breaking the law.

Also he'd just been overtaken by another bike, just before the incident. If he wasn't paying attention before then, you'd think that a passing bike would've made him look in his mirror for the likely posibility that there was more traffic waiting to pass.

I wonder if many of the "poor observation" brigade, would have the same attitude if they were knocked off their bike by a car on a dual carriage way, that suddenly swapped LANES without any indication or warning - but of course, you'd have seen it coming, wouldn't you?

Make sure the pair of you take your blinkers off before setting out on your bikes.

Forget Fact
Forget Rules
Forget Law

This was Nurburgring FFS.

Get real!

Edited by trumpet600 on Tuesday 4th March 14:37

[Fire99]

I think the camera angle doesnt help much.. as i think the BMW did cut in a bit sharp and not quite as progressively as you would first think.

However, regardless of fault, the very 1st time i watched the clip i could tell the BMW was going to do that and the biker really should of shown some restraint and waited a couple of seconds till the road straightened up..

I think keeping up with mates and stop-watches had as much to do with the accident than the choice of line etc.

IMO both the BMW and the Biker should of both got their knuckles smacked for that one..

[GreenV8S]

JS99 said:

The FACT is, that he was not breaking any traffic laws which apply to the Nurburgring, The driver of the BMW was breaking the law.

Since you've put it in capitals and everything, I assume you MUST be right. And I'm sure it must be a great consolation to his next of kin to know that he wasn't breaking any laws.

[y2blade]

Fire99 said:

I think the camera angle doesnt help much.. as i think the BMW did cut in a bit sharp and not quite as progressively as you would first think.

However, regardless of fault, the very 1st time i watched the clip i could tell the BMW was going to do that and the biker really should of shown some restraint and waited a couple of seconds till the road straightened up..

I think keeping up with mates and stop-watches had as much to do with the accident than the choice of line etc.

IMO both the BMW and the Biker should of both got their knuckles smacked for that one..

i agree with everything you have just said

im sure the biker has learnt his lesson now



anyway videoing laps is banned isnt it???

nurburgring rules

5.4=Photo-, film-, and video-recordings are only allowed to be commercially distributed with written permission of the Nürburgring GmbH. [Since this, a complete ban on photography and video filming on the track has been introduced, and in 2004 offenders will be banned - Ben]

http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/ringrules.html

Edited by y2blade on Tuesday 4th March 15:23

[tim2100]

Regardless of who is right and wrong.

This was an avoidable accident. If the biker had not dived up the inside from way behind he would not have run out of road and hit the deck.

On any road / track when you are going for the overtake you must either make sure the car driver is aware that you are there and will not pull out in front of you OR get past in such a way that the car driver cannot get you.

In this the biker did neither and paid the price.

[Fire99]

well i think we've done the naming and blaming to oblivion.. On a positive note, if the guy wasnt seriously injured, it does highlight what can go wrong when you let your enthusiasm overpower your common sense.

I think most of us have got a bit carried away at some point.. I would like to do the 'ring' this year but i think im gonna play it safe and do it in the car first then take the bike after getting a few laps under my belt.

Hopefully all my crashing will be done on the Playstation before i go.

[Crazycraig]

tim2100 said:

Regardless of who is right and wrong.

This was an avoidable accident. If the biker had not dived up the inside from way behind he would not have run out of road and hit the deck.

On any road / track when you are going for the overtake you must either make sure the car driver is aware that you are there and will not pull out in front of you OR get past in such a way that the car driver cannot get you.

In this the biker did neither and paid the price.

Agreed I think the rider should have hung back, but however I still think he was very unfortunate in this instance and paid the price .

From how I see it, it looks as if the BM may have been trying to do the right thing and had possibly spotted the 1st rider, pulled over to the R/H/S before the bend putting the second rider way into his blind spot (see around 00:05 the rider is at 45' to the R/O/S) before then cutting back acrosss to the L/H/S of the track prior to the next right hander.

In my eyes a combination of driver been blindsided and rider over keenness.

[Neezer]

Morally the Rider was at fault, technically the Driver was at fault. Thankyou.

[hornetrider]

Neezer said:

Morally the Rider was at fault, technically the Driver was at fault. Thankyou.

/endthread

[monthefish]

Ive just looked at the clip again - was there even contact between the car and the bike?? The bike certainly goes down prior to reaching the back of the car...

[TPS]

monthefish said:

Ive just looked at the clip again - was there even contact between the car and the bike?? The bike certainly goes down prior to reaching the back of the car...

I think he locked up and went down without hitting the car.However the car caused him to lock up and bin it by cutting in on him.

Im with Black k1 on this though.The rules are quite simple and the bike broke the road laws by cutting across when the law states you stay to the right unless overtaking.If it were you out there riding at speed and the same thing happened would you say oh well i should have known he was going to break the law and cut me up so i will take the blame.
To put this into context it would be the same as you going out for a ride one weekend and as you approach a long right hand sweeping bend with good visability you overtake a car all on its own only for the car to pull across cut the bend and wipe you out.

[StuB]

I have to comment after watching the clip, but haven't read all of the 'discussion', but here goes;

Rider 100% in the wrong, assuming car had seen him. Car could be seen turning into the corner and the rider tried to dive up the inside with no alternative/escape options.

Actually, I doubt the car driver even knew anything had happened behind him as he'd have been concentrating on the turn in and clipping point and the next corner!

[black-k1]

StuB said:

I have to comment after watching the clip, but haven't read all of the 'discussion', but here goes;

Rider 100% in the wrong, assuming car had seen him. Car could be seen turning into the corner and the rider tried to dive up the inside with no alternative/escape options.

Actually, I doubt the car driver even knew anything had happened behind him as he'd have been concentrating on the turn in and clipping point and the next corner!

You need to read the rest of the thread!

[TPS]

StuB said:

I have to comment after watching the clip, but haven't read all of the 'discussion', but here goes;

Rider 100% in the wrong, assuming car had seen him. Car could be seen turning into the corner and the rider tried to dive up the inside with no alternative/escape options.

Actually, I doubt the car driver even knew anything had happened behind him as he'd have been concentrating on the turn in and clipping point and the next corner!

You need to read the thread.More to the point you need to understand the road laws for the ring.
The ring is when open to the public a german road and the road laws state you must keep to the right hand side,even on bends unless overtaking.Now as the car was not overtaking it should have stayed on the right hand side.Hence the biker would have expected it to stay there and in it cutting across the car driver was to blame.
The simple fact is the car driver broke the law.

[black-k1]

TPS said:

The simple fact is the car driver broke the law.

But the biker didn't read the car drivers mind so it must be the bikers fault!!!

[Fire99]

black-k1 said:

TPS said:

The simple fact is the car driver broke the law.

But the biker didn't read the car drivers mind so it must be the bikers fault!!!

To be fair the rider didn't need to read the drivers mind.. If i could see from the clip what the BMW driver was about to do then the rider definitely should.. And if he couldnt then he shouldn't of been approaching the tail of the BMW that fast.

At the end of the day regardless of rules the biker is still a biker and in the event of an accident will always come off worse.
You should always put your own safety first before 'standing your ground'

Blame is debatable but the accident was avoidable if the biker took reasonable caution.

[trumpet600]

But we are talking about the ring.

Irrespective of who is to blame technically, the rider made a big big mistake. And it cost him.

All of you throwing in different scenario's is futile. The ring may be subject to laws, but who takes any notice. Get it into your heads that people only go there to open their motors up, whether it be a beemer, bike or transit.

[TPS]

black-k1 said:

TPS said:

The simple fact is the car driver broke the law.

But the biker didn't read the car drivers mind so it must be the bikers fault!!!

ah i see..yep bikers fault 100%

[black-k1]

trumpet600 said:

But we are talking about the ring.

Irrespective of who is to blame technically, the rider made a big big mistake. And it cost him.

All of you throwing in different scenario's is futile. The ring may be subject to laws, but who takes any notice. Get it into your heads that people only go there to open their motors up, whether it be a beemer, bike or transit.

An it is exactly that type of view that will get the 'Ring closed to the public. There is a huge amount of pressure from various 'do gooders' to have the 'Ring closed for 'our own protection' and views like that do not help. The 'Ring is covered by German road law, like it or not.

As I have said before, I have been to the 'Ring and I did not go to open my motor up. I have riden faster on public roads than I rode at the 'Ring.