Nortons current state

[Iminquarantine]

A Brexiter wrecked by, amongst other things, Brexit. "peaking about the collapse of the company, Norton chief executive Stuart Garner said it had “become increasingly difficult to manufacture in the UK, with a growing tax burden and ongoing uncertainties over Brexit affecting many things like, tariffs, exports and availability of funding.”" Quite a different story to when he said Brexit offers "huge opportunities"

[rigga]

Iminquarantine said:

A Brexiter wrecked by, amongst other things, Brexit. "peaking about the collapse of the company, Norton chief executive Stuart Garner said it had “become increasingly difficult to manufacture in the UK, with a growing tax burden and ongoing uncertainties over Brexit affecting many things like, tariffs, exports and availability of funding.”" Quite a different story to when he said Brexit offers "huge opportunities"

Stick to the Brexit thread you throbber .. you're bloody obsessed.

[bloomen]

Easy to say in hindsight, but going on the track record of the cottage British performance machine industry I would've sat on my hands and waited until there was something physically present in front of me to obtain.

And of course even when that happened it didn't turn out too great. I'd hang mine over the fireplace.

[Motorsport3]

lukeyman said:

Someone venting... for sale: 'Norton V4SS 2019 the one with 35 defects; read description'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313730972375

Beautiful looking bike but people bidding over 30k for what is currently an ornament, are they aiming to fix/use it?

[Max5476]

As an automotive engineer I occasionally spend time at various proving grounds, and was excited to see the new Norton actually running some tests on the V4, they've probably already done more testing than happened under the previous regime.

Excited to see what else they announce over the coming years, but I do worry about the continued input of Simon Skinner, considering the negativity that has come out around the previous designs.

[Mortgage_tom]

Factory tour Lamp Chop Rides

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzS-XkE8Fvs

Impressive, looks like a different level of professionalism and investment. TVS must have deep pockets.

Going a lot better than the new TVR...hahaa

[UnluckyTimmeh]

Mortgage_tom said:

Factory tour Lamp Chop Rides

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzS-XkE8Fvs

Impressive, looks like a different level of professionalism and investment. TVS must have deep pockets.

Going a lot better than the new TVR...hahaa

Michael Mann from BikeSocial went on a tour too. Interesting hearing what they are up to. I wish them every success

https://youtu.be/U7UIdEnYyvU

[rigga]

Seems the owners of the now non roadworthy v4ss bikes, can, after the liquidation process is completed, hand over £10k for a new, fully developed v4, but they must hand back their original bike to be destroyed.

Whilst its a chunk of extra cash to find, its a way out of their current dilemma of having an expensive ornament. And TVS are not obliged to sort out previous Norton's fk ups ...... so I think there will be interest.

[Krikkit]

Motorsport3 said:

lukeyman said:

Someone venting... for sale: 'Norton V4SS 2019 the one with 35 defects; read description'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313730972375

Beautiful looking bike but people bidding over 30k for what is currently an ornament, are they aiming to fix/use it?

As above - they might want to exchange it for the re-engineered bike when it's ready, until then it's an interesting curio. Will they become like the Foggy Petronas?

Personally I think TVS are doing this the right way - properly facilities, not trying to launch 50 models in 5 years. Start off sensible by sorting the near-finished bikes they've inherited

Edited by Krikkit on Friday 12th November 21:06

[Pothole]

boyse7en said:

What would you do? Garner took deposits and then said they wouldn't build the machine until he had got the balance in full and you wouldn't get a refund on the deposit.
You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Lose the deposit or pay up and hope the bike turns up.

Seems like losing the deposit wouldn't be a big deal to that particular punter. Were I in the position to spunk forty bags on a new bike, I think I'd feel much the same. It's not even the cost of a weekend away at that level.

[poo at Paul's]

I read they are looking to produce 8000 bikes per year….presumably in a new factory on Fantasy Island!

[Esceptico]

poo at Paul's said:

I read they are looking to produce 8000 bikes per year….presumably in a new factory on Fantasy Island!

Triumph make more than 60,000 bikes a year and they are a resurrected brand so started with zero. If Norton gets it right this time around (they are least have the backing of a proper, large group and not a maverick criminal this time) I don’t see why that isn’t potentially achievable.

[Tango13]

poo at Paul's said:

I read they are looking to produce 8000 bikes per year….presumably in a new factory on Fantasy Island!

Fantasy Island Skegness? Sounds legit

If Wikipedia is to be believed John Bloor invested somewhere between £70 and £100 million before Triumph broke even, I hope TVS have deep pockets and plenty of patience

[mak]

Tango13 said:

Fantasy Island Skegness? Sounds legit

If Wikipedia is to be believed John Bloor invested somewhere between £70 and £100 million before Triumph broke even, I hope TVS have deep pockets and plenty of patience

Very small minded thought, TVS are in the billions. There not fking about in la la land.
As for offering the old customers anything at all is commendable

[Tango13]

mak said:

Tango13 said:

Fantasy Island Skegness? Sounds legit

If Wikipedia is to be believed John Bloor invested somewhere between £70 and £100 million before Triumph broke even, I hope TVS have deep pockets and plenty of patience

Very small minded thought, TVS are in the billions. There not fking about in la la land.
As for offering the old customers anything at all is commendable

Not small minded at all, John Bloor who is also a billionare btw aquired Triumph in 1983 and broke even around 2000, so 17 years and £70~£100m invested to break even.

John Bloor built Triumph with his own cash, the buck stopped with him. Do the board of TVS have the stomach to throw £100m+ at a business with a break even date years in the future whilst all the time having big institutional shareholders second guessing their every move?

I hope Norton succeed but they will need to shift a lot more than 8,000 bikes a year to make any money, Triumphs best year was 2020 when they sold just over 60,000 bikes.

[Motorsport3]

£100m in the 80s is maybe 5x that now?

[Esceptico]

Tango13 said:

mak said:

Tango13 said:

Fantasy Island Skegness? Sounds legit

If Wikipedia is to be believed John Bloor invested somewhere between £70 and £100 million before Triumph broke even, I hope TVS have deep pockets and plenty of patience

Very small minded thought, TVS are in the billions. There not fking about in la la land.
As for offering the old customers anything at all is commendable

Not small minded at all, John Bloor who is also a billionare btw aquired Triumph in 1983 and broke even around 2000, so 17 years and £70~£100m invested to break even.

John Bloor built Triumph with his own cash, the buck stopped with him. Do the board of TVS have the stomach to throw £100m+ at a business with a break even date years in the future whilst all the time having big institutional shareholders second guessing their every move?

I hope Norton succeed but they will need to shift a lot more than 8,000 bikes a year to make any money, Triumphs best year was 2020 when they sold just over 60,000 bikes.

Presumably the board of TVS approved the acquisition of Norton based on a plan to make them profitable. So why do you think they are not going to back the plan they signed off on? Or perhaps you have inside knowledge of TVS that we don’t?

[rigga]

TVS are massive, and unlikely to be in this for sts and giggles, they will be expecting to make a return on their investment.

[Pothole]

rigga said:

TVS are massive, and unlikely to be in this for sts and giggles, they will be expecting to make a return on their investment.

They're advertising for a head of merch, so that's one guaranteed income stream if they can get some influencers on board wearing their stuff.

[crofty1984]

rigga said:

TVS are massive, and unlikely to be in this for sts and giggles, they will be expecting to make a return on their investment.

Aren't they an Indian company? Look at Royal Enfield's turnaround over the last 15 years or so. I imagine they're aware of what they're in for.

Personally, I'm hoping Mahindra make something of BSA as well.