New bike sales not looking very good.
Discussion
Biker's Nemesis said:
Why condem people who wear leathers and want to enjoy their sports bikes and don't have chicken strips.
If you want too wear nice gear and look good well find a busy Main Street with a coffee shop and sit outside stroking your beard looking all windswept and interstering.
I'm sure they must be other men looking to meet other men who like looking good.
Oh my, that got a nibble If you want too wear nice gear and look good well find a busy Main Street with a coffee shop and sit outside stroking your beard looking all windswept and interstering.
I'm sure they must be other men looking to meet other men who like looking good.
Did you get out of bed on the wrong side today?Horses for courses and all that. Swings and roundabouts.
Just FYI, I absolutely love sports bikes, and follow the racing. I just dont have any desire to own one, or scrape my knees on every roundabout.
Also, as I said, I'd rather go out for a ride than stroke my beard at a coffee shop
To me the issue is the growing age of the people having the income to buy these things.
Dealers and punters are embraced in the same ego trip.So its either 200hp bikes or a big
gay custom cruiser.
Its not like driving a car so the thing will just set idle most of the year as a conversation starter as its way too
painful to contort into the riding position.
I dont know what feedback they get back in japan but its all false as they keep pumping out the same things.
They need to look at what triumph have done and mine their own history.
Honda should be making a 1960s cb750 sohc with all the rad pipes gizmos and brackets hidden away.
Trouble is what they think is retro is the usual dohc engine look from their dross 80s era.
Youth are to poor to buy anything but tiddlers and a whole culture of scooter morons has developed
probably because they are easy to steal.
Obiously in Japan they are all conformist drones so no bike theft problem there but they need
to look at the bikes they make which are an easily sold on collection of parts.
I think people are sick of painting a target on their back by getting something nice.
Dealers and punters are embraced in the same ego trip.So its either 200hp bikes or a big
gay custom cruiser.
Its not like driving a car so the thing will just set idle most of the year as a conversation starter as its way too
painful to contort into the riding position.
I dont know what feedback they get back in japan but its all false as they keep pumping out the same things.
They need to look at what triumph have done and mine their own history.
Honda should be making a 1960s cb750 sohc with all the rad pipes gizmos and brackets hidden away.
Trouble is what they think is retro is the usual dohc engine look from their dross 80s era.
Youth are to poor to buy anything but tiddlers and a whole culture of scooter morons has developed
probably because they are easy to steal.
Obiously in Japan they are all conformist drones so no bike theft problem there but they need
to look at the bikes they make which are an easily sold on collection of parts.
I think people are sick of painting a target on their back by getting something nice.
I read a statistic the other day that says a large proportion of people who have their bike stolen, don't replace it, and certainly not with a nice new desirable shiny one. Insurance becomes prohibitive due to the theft claim, particularly in large cities and towns.
With bike theft at epidemic levels in the UK at the moment this must factor strongly in the new sales statistics.
With bike theft at epidemic levels in the UK at the moment this must factor strongly in the new sales statistics.
Re the safety aspect, its always the same, non riders who are ignorant of the true facts, repeating the mantra "bikes are more dangerous than cars" .....errr...yeah....thats common sense....so are horses, cycling and just plain walking. 20 times more people die in DIY accidents around the home than do on bikes, so I guess we should stay away from the window cleaning and power tools too 
In some years in the 1960s >10000 bikers died in a year....hardly surprising, riding with no helmets and 250cc bikes on L plates and no training....It does not take a scientist to work out why lots of youngsters died in motorcycle accidents in the 60s and 70s, which eventually led to helmet laws and multi part tests. Much of this negative safety aspect is ingrained in a generation and passed down to the next. Its seems all your older relatives know a friend of a friend who was killed or walks with a limp due to a bike RTA.
Now In recent years motorcycle KSI have steadily reduced to be at an all time low; with 1.5 million riders, just a few hundred per year die on the roads. So it would appear that the focus on more training and education has paid off. Sure, the tiered multi test licence system is not perfect, but it does appear to be working from a safety perspective.
What we need is to break the negative public perception with some positive media messaging from the motorcycle industry and the government, we need to explains the facts and the benefits of 2 wheeled transport.
In the meanwhile we have had 30 years of Volvo and other car manufacturers telling us how safe cars are these days, creating such a perception of safety that some people feel that they can spend more time focused on the gadget in their hand than the act of driving the car.......mobile phones are killing more people per year than motorcycles....we should introduce some strict laws to control the use of those death machines
In some years in the 1960s >10000 bikers died in a year....hardly surprising, riding with no helmets and 250cc bikes on L plates and no training....It does not take a scientist to work out why lots of youngsters died in motorcycle accidents in the 60s and 70s, which eventually led to helmet laws and multi part tests. Much of this negative safety aspect is ingrained in a generation and passed down to the next. Its seems all your older relatives know a friend of a friend who was killed or walks with a limp due to a bike RTA.
Now In recent years motorcycle KSI have steadily reduced to be at an all time low; with 1.5 million riders, just a few hundred per year die on the roads. So it would appear that the focus on more training and education has paid off. Sure, the tiered multi test licence system is not perfect, but it does appear to be working from a safety perspective.
What we need is to break the negative public perception with some positive media messaging from the motorcycle industry and the government, we need to explains the facts and the benefits of 2 wheeled transport.
In the meanwhile we have had 30 years of Volvo and other car manufacturers telling us how safe cars are these days, creating such a perception of safety that some people feel that they can spend more time focused on the gadget in their hand than the act of driving the car.......mobile phones are killing more people per year than motorcycles....we should introduce some strict laws to control the use of those death machines
garylythgoe said:
Oh my, that got a nibble Did you get out of bed on the wrong side today?
Horses for courses and all that. Swings and roundabouts.
Just FYI, I absolutely love sports bikes, and follow the racing. I just dont have any desire to own one, or scrape my knees on every roundabout.
Also, as I said, I'd rather go out for a ride than stroke my beard at a coffee shop
I just picked the tar brush up after you'd finished with it. Did you get out of bed on the wrong side today?Horses for courses and all that. Swings and roundabouts.
Just FYI, I absolutely love sports bikes, and follow the racing. I just dont have any desire to own one, or scrape my knees on every roundabout.
Also, as I said, I'd rather go out for a ride than stroke my beard at a coffee shop
CoolHands said:
30,000 thefts. 85,000 sales.
Hate to get all Tory, (I’m now middle-aged, & had my Tmax stolen) but build more prisons
CH
signing off
bloody hell, some scary numbers there. 1/3 of the market sales is stolen every year. No wonder. Hate to get all Tory, (I’m now middle-aged, & had my Tmax stolen) but build more prisons
CH
signing off
FYI I would not have a bike in the UK if I didn't have a secure garage. No chance.
I am now paranoid to the point I wouldn't even ride into London and stop.
Rest of the country isn't so f
ked up and amazing roads here in the North. cbmotorsport said:
I read a statistic the other day that says a large proportion of people who have their bike stolen, don't replace it, and certainly not with a nice new desirable shiny one
I did, 2008 R1 nicked and replaced it the next week with an MV F4 and just changed that for a new R1* however I've never replaced the KTM enduro that was nicked and probably never will - they're even worse theft magnets.If the bike ever gets stolen again I won't replace it; since I got robbed I live in real fear of them coming back, at least a couple of nights a week I can't sleep at all and I'm up almost every night looking out of the window at the garage (even on holiday I'm checking the cctv) which stays permanantly lit, it's all alarmed, 11 locks per garage door, window and personal access door bricked up, bike with two pragmasis chains, tracker.
And I still can't sleep for worry three and a half years later despite all that. Living in a nice semi-rural location is no help if they know where you live. No idea how people in London cope at all. I'd not even have a bike tbh.
- 260 fully comp for 2014 F4 including commuting, 880 fully comp for R1 excluding commuting - what the fk?
Biker's Nemesis said:
I just picked the tar brush up after you'd finished with it.
You've pretty much confirmed my view, so good work. As a noobie who isn't looking to kill himself at the first opportunity, a large percentage of the 'veterans' display non-encouraging behaviour for anyone who wants to hop on a bike and enjoy themselves at whatever level.This differs greatly from another interest I have, Mountain Biking.
It's friendly no matter what discipline you ride - enduro, downhill, xc, etc.
People are encouraging, and non-judgemental.
I ride DH/Enduro stuff, and if I saw a guy in xc gear, with his seat raised too high. I wouldn't sneer at him, I'd go and suggest he lowers his seat and buys some pads, and offer him to follow me down a run for an idea of the lines etc.
Horses for courses and all that. Just posting my personal observations.
I rarely post on here these days. I think I've just remembered why.
Edited by garylythgoe on Wednesday 25th October 11:32
As someone who would've been the ideal target market as a 'new biker' (petrolhead, loves fast noisy things) there are a lot of reasons why I never took the plunge (I'm 38 now). Cost was the main thing; I need a car, but a bike would therefore be a toy. It's expensive to learn, not to mention I also - rightly or wrongly - perceive it as complex/confusing. It involves buying a lot of gear for something I may not end up being able to do/pass.
The roads were another big part, both in terms of the state of them and the fact that various groups seem determined to ensure that driving or riding should in no way be perceived as fun or enjoyable.
Risk is a big one... Not my own (I'm a driving god naturally) but that presented by everyone else. The standards of driving have declined massively and I would be terrified to be out on something as exposed as a bike as the risk of injury is amplified greatly compared to a car. If I have a crash in the car I might be a bit sore or achey for a few days - on a bike I might have broken limbs. I can't risk injuring myself to that degree and being off work for weeks. It would cause significant issues if I broke a leg; I live on my own in a second floor flat with no lift and aside from any pain involved, the hassle would be enormous from a mobility perspective.
If I bought one, a bike would have to live outside which would be less than ideal. Finally the sometimes snotty or haughty attitude of many bikers puts me off (again, this may be perception but it's how it comes across to me).
I love the idea and a couple of mates are dyed-in-the-wool bikers who say I should get into it but for the hassle, cost and risk involved I'd rather chuck that money into a car.
The roads were another big part, both in terms of the state of them and the fact that various groups seem determined to ensure that driving or riding should in no way be perceived as fun or enjoyable.
Risk is a big one... Not my own (I'm a driving god naturally) but that presented by everyone else. The standards of driving have declined massively and I would be terrified to be out on something as exposed as a bike as the risk of injury is amplified greatly compared to a car. If I have a crash in the car I might be a bit sore or achey for a few days - on a bike I might have broken limbs. I can't risk injuring myself to that degree and being off work for weeks. It would cause significant issues if I broke a leg; I live on my own in a second floor flat with no lift and aside from any pain involved, the hassle would be enormous from a mobility perspective.
If I bought one, a bike would have to live outside which would be less than ideal. Finally the sometimes snotty or haughty attitude of many bikers puts me off (again, this may be perception but it's how it comes across to me).
I love the idea and a couple of mates are dyed-in-the-wool bikers who say I should get into it but for the hassle, cost and risk involved I'd rather chuck that money into a car.
Edited by Funk on Wednesday 25th October 11:34
garylythgoe said:
You've pretty much confirmed my view, so good work. As a noobie who isn't looking to kill himself at the first opportunity, a large percentage of the 'veterans' display non-encouraging behaviour for anyone who wants to hop on a bike and enjoy themselves at whatever level.
This differs greatly from another interest I have, Mountain Biking.
It's friendly no matter what discipline you ride - enduro, downhill, xc, etc.
People are encouraging, and non-judgemental.
I ride DH/Enduro stuff, and if I saw a guy in xc gear, with his seat raised too high. I wouldn't sneer at him, I'd go and suggest he lowers his seat and buys some pads, and offer him to follow me down a run for an idea of the lines etc.
Horses for courses and all that. Just posting my personal observations.
I rarely post on here these days. I think I've just remembered why.
Fkn hang on, power rangers, riding gods etc etc, you're the one that came out with that.This differs greatly from another interest I have, Mountain Biking.
It's friendly no matter what discipline you ride - enduro, downhill, xc, etc.
People are encouraging, and non-judgemental.
I ride DH/Enduro stuff, and if I saw a guy in xc gear, with his seat raised too high. I wouldn't sneer at him, I'd go and suggest he lowers his seat and buys some pads, and offer him to follow me down a run for an idea of the lines etc.
Horses for courses and all that. Just posting my personal observations.
I rarely post on here these days. I think I've just remembered why.
Edited by garylythgoe on Wednesday 25th October 11:32
Anyway, don't let the door catch your arse on the way out.
As I said in that previous thread, there's an awful lot of ex-motorcyclists amongst the people I cycle with. The cost of a new 125 will get you a very nice pushbike that costs very little to run, and pedalling for a few hours on a Sunday morning in the fresh air can be at least as nice as biking. There was a big cycling boom around 2012 and it will have pushed out some other leisure pursuits for some people.
I wonder too how much better the bikes in showrooms are compared to the stuff of 10+ years ago. Are sportsbikes now genuinely more exciting than a decade ago? Is a current R1200GS that much better at carrying people and things than one of the early ones? Is a current Monster a much better bike than my (now 10 years old) 695?
Maybe it's just a perception thing but there's a glut of really good used bikes about that are more appealing to me than what's in the showrooms. Much more so than when I passed my test nearly a decade ago and the 10-year-old stuff seemed really dated.
I wonder too how much better the bikes in showrooms are compared to the stuff of 10+ years ago. Are sportsbikes now genuinely more exciting than a decade ago? Is a current R1200GS that much better at carrying people and things than one of the early ones? Is a current Monster a much better bike than my (now 10 years old) 695?
Maybe it's just a perception thing but there's a glut of really good used bikes about that are more appealing to me than what's in the showrooms. Much more so than when I passed my test nearly a decade ago and the 10-year-old stuff seemed really dated.
Funk said:
Risk is a big one... Not my own (I'm a driving god naturally) but that presented by everyone else. The standards of driving have declined massively and I would be terrified to be out on something as exposed as a bike as the risk of injury is amplified greatly compared to a car. If I have a crash in the car I might be a bit sore or achey for a few days - on a bike I might have broken limbs. I can't risk injuring myself to that degree and being off work for weeks. It would cause significant issues if I broke a leg; I live on my own in a second floor flat with no lift and aside from any pain involved, the hassle would be enormous from a mobility perspective.
I actually think I felt the same for ages. My Mum passed away 2 years ago and one of her big things throughout my years, was her not wanting me to have a bike because of the risk etc. It resonated massively for ages. But when I did a few lessons I realised the standard of education/teaching is so high that it feels quite relieving once you finally do it. It doesn't remove the risk of plonkers on the road, but massively educates you to anticipating situations and what to look out for. Certainly in my experience anyway. I found it liberating to be 'learning' again, and I think it's contributed towards my driving awareness too, which is no bad thing.You should go and do your CBT and get a 'taster' for it, and if it's not for you, then treat it as a day out. You dont need to buy any gear, as a good riding school should provide everything you need.
Funk said:
Finally the sometimes snotty or haughty attitude of many bikers puts me off (again, this may be perception but it's how it comes across to me).
It's not true - I mean there's no evidence in this thread what-so-ever Yipper said:
Death, theft, police clampdowns, Brexit and cost are turning people away from motorbikes. It is also seen as an activity for old people, which puts off younger folk getting on the ladder.
You've mentioned something very important there, Yipper - Brexit.One of my best mates is in the bike trade - one of his "arms" is bike retail and the effect that's had on him is very pronounced - the pound crash has really f
ked him up by pushing up prices and the other side is that consumer confidence is hammered - bikes aren't selling. So he's stopping the bikes sales - with the redundancies that entails.I don't think the effects of this can be underestimated - I don't know about anyone else on here but I'm worried about the economy and hence my job (although I work in gaming, which is generally "recession-proof").
Dog Star said:
I don't think the effects of this can be underestimated - I don't know about anyone else on here but I'm worried about the economy and hence my job (although I work in gaming, which is generally "recession-proof").
True, the PCP's which people would normally take out - might be being 'held back' just in case of interest rates going up, etc.I certainly have a healthy buffer at the minute which I wouldn't want to sacrifice on a new bike/car/expense til the future feels more resolved.
P.s. I work in gaming too, the biggest worry is the shift from physical to digital!
garylythgoe said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
I just picked the tar brush up after you'd finished with it.
You've pretty much confirmed my view, so good work. As a noobie who isn't looking to kill himself at the first opportunity, a large percentage of the 'veterans' display non-encouraging behaviour for anyone who wants to hop on a bike and enjoy themselves at whatever level.This differs greatly from another interest I have, Mountain Biking.
It's friendly no matter what discipline you ride - enduro, downhill, xc, etc.
People are encouraging, and non-judgemental.
I ride DH/Enduro stuff, and if I saw a guy in xc gear, with his seat raised too high. I wouldn't sneer at him, I'd go and suggest he lowers his seat and buys some pads, and offer him to follow me down a run for an idea of the lines etc.
Horses for courses and all that. Just posting my personal observations.
I rarely post on here these days. I think I've just remembered why.
Edited by garylythgoe on Wednesday 25th October 11:32
I actually think the BB forum is generally very friendly and a lot of people are very helpful and knowledgeable.
sjg said:
As I said in that previous thread, there's an awful lot of ex-motorcyclists amongst the people I cycle with. The cost of a new 125 will get you a very nice pushbike that costs very little to run, and pedalling for a few hours on a Sunday morning in the fresh air can be at least as nice as biking. There was a big cycling boom around 2012 and it will have pushed out some other leisure pursuits for some people.
I wonder too how much better the bikes in showrooms are compared to the stuff of 10+ years ago. Are sportsbikes now genuinely more exciting than a decade ago? Is a current R1200GS that much better at carrying people and things than one of the early ones? Is a current Monster a much better bike than my (now 10 years old) 695?
Maybe it's just a perception thing but there's a glut of really good used bikes about that are more appealing to me than what's in the showrooms. Much more so than when I passed my test nearly a decade ago and the 10-year-old stuff seemed really dated.
Having recently bought my first bike with full electronics, I would say that is really the only significant difference between now and ten years ago.I wonder too how much better the bikes in showrooms are compared to the stuff of 10+ years ago. Are sportsbikes now genuinely more exciting than a decade ago? Is a current R1200GS that much better at carrying people and things than one of the early ones? Is a current Monster a much better bike than my (now 10 years old) 695?
Maybe it's just a perception thing but there's a glut of really good used bikes about that are more appealing to me than what's in the showrooms. Much more so than when I passed my test nearly a decade ago and the 10-year-old stuff seemed really dated.
If that isn't a major factor in your buying decision, and you're not a vanity buyer that has to always have the latest offering, then I think going for a decent used bike where someone else has taken the hit makes sense. And now there are used bikes with all the electronics available anyway.
Attracting younger people to bikes is definitely an issue. Theft must be having a massive impact. The sheer amount of bikes stolen in London alone must put many people off. I would be priced off the road by insurance if I didn't have a garage.
Another factor seems to be cheap finance on "performance" cars. Using the apprentices at our company as a sample group, even just a few years ago they were blatting around on DR125s, sv650s and the likes of hornets. This current lot all seem to have audi s lines, golf gtis and even an M2! I can sort of see why they wouldn't want all the hassle that comes along with getting a bike these days with the alternatives available!
Another factor seems to be cheap finance on "performance" cars. Using the apprentices at our company as a sample group, even just a few years ago they were blatting around on DR125s, sv650s and the likes of hornets. This current lot all seem to have audi s lines, golf gtis and even an M2! I can sort of see why they wouldn't want all the hassle that comes along with getting a bike these days with the alternatives available!
sjg said:
As I said in that previous thread, there's an awful lot of ex-motorcyclists amongst the people I cycle with. The cost of a new 125 will get you a very nice pushbike that costs very little to run, and pedalling for a few hours on a Sunday morning in the fresh air can be at least as nice as biking. There was a big cycling boom around 2012 and it will have pushed out some other leisure pursuits for some people.
I wonder too how much better the bikes in showrooms are compared to the stuff of 10+ years ago. Are sportsbikes now genuinely more exciting than a decade ago? Is a current R1200GS that much better at carrying people and things than one of the early ones? Is a current Monster a much better bike than my (now 10 years old) 695?
Maybe it's just a perception thing but there's a glut of really good used bikes about that are more appealing to me than what's in the showrooms. Much more so than when I passed my test nearly a decade ago and the 10-year-old stuff seemed really dated.
Sportsbike evolution has been somewhat incremental. The 98 R1 was already way beyond most people and most public roads, so what difference does more "more" make? I wonder too how much better the bikes in showrooms are compared to the stuff of 10+ years ago. Are sportsbikes now genuinely more exciting than a decade ago? Is a current R1200GS that much better at carrying people and things than one of the early ones? Is a current Monster a much better bike than my (now 10 years old) 695?
Maybe it's just a perception thing but there's a glut of really good used bikes about that are more appealing to me than what's in the showrooms. Much more so than when I passed my test nearly a decade ago and the 10-year-old stuff seemed really dated.
More practical bikes like the GS I think have come on a long way even in just the last 3 years. Enduro bikes too.
I agree though, other pastimes have grown in popularity and something has got to give.
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