Ace Cafe crash
Discussion
NeMiSiS said:
Scooterists...all kn0b heads in my book.
The crumple zones on the Scooter definitely saved his life !
Along with the seat ejector air bag, excellent new obligatory addition to all new scooters.
Bottom feeding, algae sucking knob jerkers, for sure. Even that tThe crumple zones on the Scooter definitely saved his life !
Along with the seat ejector air bag, excellent new obligatory addition to all new scooters.
t Jamie Oliver had one.soad said:
NeMiSiS said:
Scooterists...all kn0b heads in my book.
The crumple zones on the Scooter definitely saved his life !
Along with the seat ejector air bag, excellent new obligatory addition to all new scooters.
Bottom feeding, algae sucking knob jerkers, for sure. Even that tThe crumple zones on the Scooter definitely saved his life !
Along with the seat ejector air bag, excellent new obligatory addition to all new scooters.
t Jamie Oliver had one.
Discopotatoes said:
no not until they at least start to make the turn or there is plenty of room for you to get out without causing them to brake as they could have left it on, treat everyone else on the road like they are idiots who don't know how to drive and you stand half a chance
Precisely - all an indicator means to anyone in front of the indicating vehicle is that the bulb works. If you are behind someone when their indicator come on, that means they might turn in, if it wasn't just knocked on by mistake.Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 5th October 22:09
Now applied for our BMW/Scooter pairing, it means?
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
no not until they at least start to make the turn or there is plenty of room for you to get out without causing them to brake as they could have left it on, treat everyone else on the road like they are idiots who don't know how to drive and you stand half a chance
Precisely - . If you are behind someone when their indicator come on, that means they might turn in, if it wasn't just knocked on by mistake.Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 5th October 22:09
Now applied for our BMW/Scooter pairing, it means?
if the bmw driver had indicted the scooter may not have chanced his luck
Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 5th October 22:31
Discopotatoes said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
no not until they at least start to make the turn or there is plenty of room for you to get out without causing them to brake as they could have left it on, treat everyone else on the road like they are idiots who don't know how to drive and you stand half a chance
Precisely - all an indicator means to anyone in front of the indicating vehicle is that the bulb works. If you are behind someone when their indicator come on, that means they might turn in, if it wasn't just knocked on by mistake.Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 5th October 22:09
Now applied for our BMW/Scooter pairing, it means?
The simple fact is you don't ever actually need to indicate, as it only matters to the person behind you - if they are smart, it wont affect anything they do beyond leaving a larger gap to account for you potentially slowing, and if they aren't they wouldn't have done anything different to take advantage of your signal anyway.
On your edit - makes no difference, scooter came from the left, he couldn't see a right-side indicator. (and anyway, he wasn't looking until it was too late)
VX Foxy said:
CaptainMorgan said:
Indicators are just courtesy, is this a car forum or mumsnet? Good lord. Yeah chances are the bike wouldnt have stopped in time with the BMW indicating but at least the driver would then be innocent from blame, as oppose to taking half of it as he will now. Anyone who thinks even without seeing the scooter that was a situation where it would be ok not to use a signal obviously hasnt been to the Ace on a friday night when all the dick heads are about. It's hard enough to get out the car park, lat alone floating about without signalling.
Indicators arnt optional or just used when someone feels like it, they are there to show other drivers what you intend to do. Yes, sometimes a driver will indicate and continue straight on so you should be prepared for that (pull out of a junction etc) but that isnt the situation here is it, so an irrelevant point. The outcome more than likely will have been the same if BMW man had indicated but he didnt so it will be a factor in the accident/insurance claims.
I'm somewhat perturbed that people on a car forum need this explaining.
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
no not until they at least start to make the turn or there is plenty of room for you to get out without causing them to brake as they could have left it on, treat everyone else on the road like they are idiots who don't know how to drive and you stand half a chance
Precisely - all an indicator means to anyone in front of the indicating vehicle is that the bulb works. If you are behind someone when their indicator come on, that means they might turn in, if it wasn't just knocked on by mistake.Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 5th October 22:09
Now applied for our BMW/Scooter pairing, it means?
The simple fact is you don't ever actually need to indicate, as it only matters to the person behind you - if they are smart, it wont affect anything they do beyond leaving a larger gap to account for you potentially slowing, and if they aren't they wouldn't have done anything different to take advantage of your signal anyway.
On your edit - makes no difference, scooter came from the left, he couldn't see a right-side indicator. (and anyway, he wasn't looking until it was too late)
likewise leaving an indicator on will fail you your test, by your assumptions would it be ok to remove the brake lights too as they are only for indication
Discopotatoes said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
no not until they at least start to make the turn or there is plenty of room for you to get out without causing them to brake as they could have left it on, treat everyone else on the road like they are idiots who don't know how to drive and you stand half a chance
Precisely - all an indicator means to anyone in front of the indicating vehicle is that the bulb works. If you are behind someone when their indicator come on, that means they might turn in, if it wasn't just knocked on by mistake.Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 5th October 22:09
Now applied for our BMW/Scooter pairing, it means?
The simple fact is you don't ever actually need to indicate, as it only matters to the person behind you - if they are smart, it wont affect anything they do beyond leaving a larger gap to account for you potentially slowing, and if they aren't they wouldn't have done anything different to take advantage of your signal anyway.
On your edit - makes no difference, scooter came from the left, he couldn't see a right-side indicator. (and anyway, he wasn't looking until it was too late)
likewise leaving an indicator on will fail you your test, by your assumptions would it be ok to remove the brake lights too as they are only for indication
I saw a bloke on his phone today, whilst driving. Pretty sure that's a test fail.
Crossflow Kid said:
Discopotatoes said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
no not until they at least start to make the turn or there is plenty of room for you to get out without causing them to brake as they could have left it on, treat everyone else on the road like they are idiots who don't know how to drive and you stand half a chance
Precisely - all an indicator means to anyone in front of the indicating vehicle is that the bulb works. If you are behind someone when their indicator come on, that means they might turn in, if it wasn't just knocked on by mistake.Edited by Discopotatoes on Sunday 5th October 22:09
Now applied for our BMW/Scooter pairing, it means?
The simple fact is you don't ever actually need to indicate, as it only matters to the person behind you - if they are smart, it wont affect anything they do beyond leaving a larger gap to account for you potentially slowing, and if they aren't they wouldn't have done anything different to take advantage of your signal anyway.
On your edit - makes no difference, scooter came from the left, he couldn't see a right-side indicator. (and anyway, he wasn't looking until it was too late)
likewise leaving an indicator on will fail you your test, by your assumptions would it be ok to remove the brake lights too as they are only for indication
I saw a bloke on his phone today, whilst driving. Pretty sure that's a test fail.
if people are saying its ok not to indicate because thats what they do doesn't make it right.
if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
Discopotatoes said:
ok if you consistantly choose not to indicate on your test you will fail. thats says you do need to do it to show other road users your intent.(whether they take the hint is upto them, all you can do is treat all other road users as idiots).
likewise leaving an indicator on will fail you your test, by your assumptions would it be ok to remove the brake lights too as they are only for indication
No, that says you need to do it to pass a dumbed down test that covers nothing about real driving. likewise leaving an indicator on will fail you your test, by your assumptions would it be ok to remove the brake lights too as they are only for indication
And brake lights are a different issue, don't be stupid.
Discopotatoes said:
im not confusing anything.
if people are saying its ok not to indicate because thats what they do doesn't make it right.
if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
No, car should give way, not just drive on. if people are saying its ok not to indicate because thats what they do doesn't make it right.
if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
im not confusing anything.
if people are saying its ok not to indicate because thats what they do doesn't make it right.
if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
No, car should give way, not just drive on. if people are saying its ok not to indicate because thats what they do doesn't make it right.
if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
ok if you consistantly choose not to indicate on your test you will fail. thats says you do need to do it to show other road users your intent.(whether they take the hint is upto them, all you can do is treat all other road users as idiots).
likewise leaving an indicator on will fail you your test, by your assumptions would it be ok to remove the brake lights too as they are only for indication
No, that says you need to do it to pass a dumbed down test that covers nothing about real driving. likewise leaving an indicator on will fail you your test, by your assumptions would it be ok to remove the brake lights too as they are only for indication
And brake lights are a different issue, don't be stupid.
so why have a test then? why not let everyone on the road who hasn't got a clue?
i agree the test is only a basic understanding of whats expected but as such its a level you shouldn't go below.
how are brake lights a different issue? they are bulbs that indicate your slowing down if we didn't have them how many more accidents would there be.
if you see someones brake lights come on in front of you, it causes you to react appropriately exactly the same as indicators.
Discopotatoes said:
exactly! the car should have given way but an indication would have given the biker a chance,
No, the car driver needs to not be a stupid idiot.Discopotatoes said:
no need for insults.
so why have a test then? why not let everyone on the road who hasn't got a clue?
i agree the test is only a basic understanding of whats expected but as such its a level you shouldn't go below.
how are brake lights a different issue? they are bulbs that indicate your slowing down if we didn't have them how many more accidents would there be.
if you see someones brake lights come on in front of you, it causes you to react appropriately exactly the same as indicators.
Stop putting words in my mouth - what I said bears no relation to what you are twisting it to. I said you don't need to indicate, not brake lights should be removed. so why have a test then? why not let everyone on the road who hasn't got a clue?
i agree the test is only a basic understanding of whats expected but as such its a level you shouldn't go below.
how are brake lights a different issue? they are bulbs that indicate your slowing down if we didn't have them how many more accidents would there be.
if you see someones brake lights come on in front of you, it causes you to react appropriately exactly the same as indicators.
CBR JGWRR said:
Discopotatoes said:
exactly! the car should have given way but an indication would have given the biker a chance,
No, the car driver needs to not be a stupid idiot.Discopotatoes said:
no need for insults.
so why have a test then? why not let everyone on the road who hasn't got a clue?
i agree the test is only a basic understanding of whats expected but as such its a level you shouldn't go below.
how are brake lights a different issue? they are bulbs that indicate your slowing down if we didn't have them how many more accidents would there be.
if you see someones brake lights come on in front of you, it causes you to react appropriately exactly the same as indicators.
Stop putting words in my mouth - what I said bears no relation to what you are twisting it to. I said you don't need to indicate, not brake lights should be removed. so why have a test then? why not let everyone on the road who hasn't got a clue?
i agree the test is only a basic understanding of whats expected but as such its a level you shouldn't go below.
how are brake lights a different issue? they are bulbs that indicate your slowing down if we didn't have them how many more accidents would there be.
if you see someones brake lights come on in front of you, it causes you to react appropriately exactly the same as indicators.
not indicating is just f
king lazy and ignorant to other road users. just because you think you know what your doing doesn't mean everyone else doesDiscopotatoes said:
if people are saying its ok not to indicate because thats what they do doesn't make it right.
if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
And by the same token, scooter boy should've "slowed right down" as he approached the mini-roundabout upon which was a BMW, not becasue the BMW was indicating or not, but because mini-roundabouts present a hazard. Simple as that.if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
Or are you suggeting the thought process went something like "Oh great, it's 100% certain that BMW must be going straight on and there's absolutely no way on earth that he could possibly turn right and block me so it's safe to crank open the throttle and pop a wheelie"?
A wiser move might've been to think "Hmm, he's not indicating to cross my path but this could still go pear-shaped regardless, best I slow down a bit"
And anyway, the example you give above still doesn't stack up when compared to Scooterboy's ace stunt. You've described a collision caused by poor judgement on the part of the car driver, in so much as he's misjudged the closing speed of the bike. Indicators won't alter that misjudgement. Granted, it may have made the biker slow down where he otherwise wouldn't, but in terms of the car driver deciding to cross the biker's path at the wrong moment it'd make no difference.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 6th October 01:17
Crossflow Kid said:
Discopotatoes said:
if people are saying its ok not to indicate because thats what they do doesn't make it right.
if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
And by the same token, scooter boy should've "slowed right down" as he approached the mini-roundabout upon which was a BMW.if everyone followed the same rules then we wouldn't have half the accidents we do.
an example.... car planning to turn right into a junction,but doesn't indicate. biker coming from opposite direction going straight on.
car sees biker but goes for the turn anyway biker has to slam on to avoid a collision could have been avoided by an indication as even if it was left on by accident the biker would have slowed right down
The example you give above still doesn't stack up when compared to Scooterboy's ace stunt though. You've described a collision caused by poor judgement on the part of the car driver, in so much as he's misjudged the closing speed of the bike. Indicators won't alter that misjudgement. Granted, it may have made the biker slow down where he otherwise wouldn't, but in terms of the car driver deciding to cross the biker's path at the wrong moment it'd make no difference.
"it may have made the biker slow down where he otherwise wouldn't" er exactly it would give him half a chance.
no one can guess what someone is going to do and get it right 100% of the time so why not take some of the guess work out. then put some common sense in and hopefully have a happy outcome.
so are we in agreement then?
Not really no. I (and several others) still say the BMW not indicating had fk all to do with scooter boy coming off.
Scooterboy being a raging cockgobbler had everything to do with Scooterboy coming off.
k all to do with scooter boy coming off.Scooterboy being a raging cockgobbler had everything to do with Scooterboy coming off.
Discopotatoes said:
"it may have made the biker slow down where he otherwise wouldn't" er exactly it would give him half a chance.
Not sure what you're getting at but I was referring to your hypothetical scenario, not scooterboy.Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 6th October 03:29
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