Nortons current state

[Esceptico]

Although not surprising this is still a shame. The V4 and the Superlight were great looking. Seems that they tried to bite off more than they could chew though.

[Jonny TVR]

Were the recent bikes good? was it just a badly run business?

[Dakkon]

Jonny TVR said:

Were the recent bikes good? was it just a badly run business?

I have not ridden any of the range, but I understand that all the modern classic stuff (commando's etc) rode well, but could be unreliable and getting spare parts was not always easy, and were not cheap. The new SS/RR and the Superlight were supposed to be good, but again not cheap.

God knows how much they invested in R&D modifying the Aprillia engine for the 1000cc and then taking two cylinders off for the Superlight.

In the past few years they have also spent a lot going to the TT.

[Ho Lee Kau]

Lets face it, really small bike manufacturers are all one foot in the grave.
Norton is just one in the line.
Personally I would never put a deposit on a non-existent bike made by a small firm when big firms produce top-notch machinery that you can (almost always) get on time, rely on and service easily.

[Gargamel]

it’s a real shame, but the pricing on the current line up was ludicrous.

[Mr Dendrite]

Quite interesting summary of the articles over the last few years about Norton and all the deals, sales figures, grants and loans,

https://www.morebikes.co.uk/news/67560/seven-quest...

[meridian]

Dakkon said:

I have not ridden any of the range, but I understand that all the modern classic stuff (commando's etc) rode well

Not true. Commando 961, certainly in Mk1 form, was a disgrace in terms of it's motor. Thruxton 865 would knock it in to a cocked hat, let alone the 1200, or something of a similar value from Ducati, MV et al. If you rode those bikes back to back and had a choice to ride, let's say 200 miles, well...The engine may very well have been from the '60s, 'agricultural' may be too kind

VERY mechanically noisy (primary drive mainly) and under developed. Rubbish. The very worst engine I have encountered in a 'modern' motorcycle. Yes, granted, suspension, brakes, chassis all good, but it ain't worth a jot without a decent (reliable) motor. Puts me in mind of early Speed Six TVRs which were also cra*p compare to any properly engineered sports car (and cost me a fortune)

If you haven't got a fundamentally, properly engineered reliable motor, then you have nothing at all........I don't believe the 961 had this

I'm not a Norton knocker, but I do believe that if the product isn't good enough, then it isn't good enough. Unlike some on here, I don't have unlimited funds to finance rose tinted spectacles

No doubt some will say that theirs were OK, but that's rather the point. In modern terms, they should all be unquestionably OK

[Dick Dastardly]

slopes said:

Seems two more of Garner's businesses are in administration too, including his hotel at Castle Donington. He's made a bit of a mess of things it seems.

Probably pulling money out of the good bits to fund the bad bits, meaning it all falls over together.

This is a real shame. A client of mine who has an extensive bike collection has/had two Norton Nomads on order and I was thinking of getting one later this year following his enthusiastic review.

I liked the fact that they brought a historic British motorcycle company back from the dead and did something special with it, rather than just leverage the brand to sell some cheap tat. Hopefully this isn't the end of the Norton story.

[meridian]

Dick Dastardly said:

I liked the fact that they brought a historic British motorcycle company back from the dead and did something special with it, rather than just leverage the brand to sell some cheap tat. Hopefully this isn't the end of the Norton story.

This is a very pertinent fact, and well put, in spite of the problems...

[NS400R]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/t...

[ChocolateFrog]

A shame but judging by their stand at the Motorcycle show you could see the writing was on the wall.

[EarlofDrift]

NS400R said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/t...

Tony Smith, a bike enthusiast from Sussex, says he ordered a Norton Dominator Street from the company last August, and paid the full purchase price of £22,000. He says he was informed his bike would be ready in September, November and then December – before being told the firm would be starting work on his bike this month. He has still to receive it. He said: “I wish I could tell you where my bike is. I’ve had numerous promises of when my bike would be made. My bike was never made and of course now my bike won’t be made. It got to the point where people weren’t returning my calls, my emails weren’t being answered. Emotionally I’ve written the money off. I’m furious.”

If I had paid £22k for a bike I'd be down at the Norton factory taking my £22k bike. He must be fairly well off to just write off that sort of money, if they had a Norton Dominator Street I'd be main damn sure I'd be getting it or my 22k back.

[Andybow]

EarlofDrift said:

Tony Smith, a bike enthusiast from Sussex, says he ordered a Norton Dominator Street from the company last August, and paid the full purchase price of £22,000. He says he was informed his bike would be ready in September, November and then December – before being told the firm would be starting work on his bike this month. He has still to receive it. He said: “I wish I could tell you where my bike is. I’ve had numerous promises of when my bike would be made. My bike was never made and of course now my bike won’t be made. It got to the point where people weren’t returning my calls, my emails weren’t being answered. Emotionally I’ve written the money off. I’m furious.”

If I had paid £22k for a bike I'd be down at the Norton factory taking my £22k bike. He must be fairly well off to just write off that sort of money, if they had a Norton Dominator Street I'd be main damn sure I'd be getting it or my 22k back.

And if the buisness has gone tits up how are you gonna do that?

[ceesvdelst]

This pension fund, are these all ex employees of the firm?

How did Norton manage to secure backing to run a pension fund if not only for workers?

[nervous]

meridian said:

Not true. Commando 961, certainly in Mk1 form, was a disgrace in terms of it's motor. Thruxton 865 would knock it in to a cocked hat, let alone the 1200, or something of a similar value from Ducati, MV et al. If you rode those bikes back to back and had a choice to ride, let's say 200 miles, well...The engine may very well have been from the '60s, 'agricultural' may be too kind

VERY mechanically noisy (primary drive mainly) and under developed. Rubbish. The very worst engine I have encountered in a 'modern' motorcycle. Yes, granted, suspension, brakes, chassis all good, but it ain't worth a jot without a decent (reliable) motor. Puts me in mind of early Speed Six TVRs which were also cra*p compare to any properly engineered sports car (and cost me a fortune)

If you haven't got a fundamentally, properly engineered reliable motor, then you have nothing at all........I don't believe the 961 had this

I'm not a Norton knocker, but I do believe that if the product isn't good enough, then it isn't good enough. Unlike some on here, I don't have unlimited funds to finance rose tinted spectacles

No doubt some will say that theirs were OK, but that's rather the point. In modern terms, they should all be unquestionably OK

I had one of those Dominator SS limited edition things and it was utter, utter rubbish. I had to carry loctite and a tool kit with me, because wherever I went something else would fall off.

[Krikkit]

ceesvdelst said:

This pension fund, are these all ex employees of the firm?

How did Norton manage to secure backing to run a pension fund if not only for workers?

No, the pension funds came from elsewhere - people investing or having their pensions invested in various places.

Sounds like a very murky business to me...

[boyse7en]

ceesvdelst said:

This pension fund, are these all ex employees of the firm?

How did Norton manage to secure backing to run a pension fund if not only for workers?

The pension holders were all people who were persuaded by a convicted fraudster financial advisor to put their pension pots into a guaranteed returns fund for a five year period. Garner was made trustee and "invested" the whole lot into Norton. It only came to light when some people tried to take the money out of the pension and it wasn't forthcoming.

[boyse7en]

EarlofDrift said:

Tony Smith, a bike enthusiast from Sussex, says he ordered a Norton Dominator Street from the company last August, and paid the full purchase price of £22,000. He says he was informed his bike would be ready in September, November and then December – before being told the firm would be starting work on his bike this month. He has still to receive it. He said: “I wish I could tell you where my bike is. I’ve had numerous promises of when my bike would be made. My bike was never made and of course now my bike won’t be made. It got to the point where people weren’t returning my calls, my emails weren’t being answered. Emotionally I’ve written the money off. I’m furious.”

If I had paid £22k for a bike I'd be down at the Norton factory taking my £22k bike. He must be fairly well off to just write off that sort of money, if they had a Norton Dominator Street I'd be main damn sure I'd be getting it or my 22k back.

But there isn't a bike. There are no bikes, that was the problem. The supplier weren't getting paid so they refused to supply the components to build the bikes, so there is nothing there to collect

[anonymous-user]

boyse7en said:

The pension holders were all people who were persuaded by a convicted fraudster financial advisor to put their pension pots into a guaranteed returns fund for a five year period. Garner was made trustee and "invested" the whole lot into Norton. It only came to light when some people tried to take the money out of the pension and it wasn't forthcoming.

Jesus, that’s some shady crap. I really hope they can prosecute, but knowing how easy it is to wind up a company and wrote off debt, I doubt it.

[Hungrymc]

yonex said:

Jesus, that’s some shady crap. I really hope they can prosecute, but knowing how easy it is to wind up a company and wrote off debt, I doubt it.

Not sure about that.
Being trustee of a pension and investing it into your own struggling business sounds like enough for some significant personal responsibility...…