the bb trackday thread.
Discussion
LF5335 said:
Oulton Park is my favourite track in the U.K. to ride, closely followed by Donington and Anglesey in that order. Sadly, none of them are quite what they were due to overly zealous officiating.
Oulton will throw a red flag for every single on track incident now, no matter how small, as it has significant issues with the HSE. This ruins the days there, as there seems to be a recent trend of people thinking it’s a badge of honour to crash on track / not follow briefing instructions and get over the barrier. Equally poorly maintained bikes, or even someone running on and being miles away from the track means a red. This ruins the day for everyone else.
Is it a symptom of people ignoring the rules perhaps? I've done a few car track sessions, and the number of people who ignore yellow flags is amazing...Oulton will throw a red flag for every single on track incident now, no matter how small, as it has significant issues with the HSE. This ruins the days there, as there seems to be a recent trend of people thinking it’s a badge of honour to crash on track / not follow briefing instructions and get over the barrier. Equally poorly maintained bikes, or even someone running on and being miles away from the track means a red. This ruins the day for everyone else.
Obviously you're the victim in the end, but if they can't use yellows properly then what else can you do.
Krikkit said:
Is it a symptom of people ignoring the rules perhaps? I've done a few car track sessions, and the number of people who ignore yellow flags is amazing...
Obviously you're the victim in the end, but if they can't use yellows properly then what else can you do.
There are no yellows, anything that would normally trigger a yellow in racing (not even a double waved yellow) automatically triggers the red flag.Obviously you're the victim in the end, but if they can't use yellows properly then what else can you do.
Biker's Nemesis said:
Oulton is my favorite UK track however I've not a had a good time the 3 times I've been there this year.
First time it pissed down all day and I didn't have my wets with me.
2nd time I got the first session then the other 2 were Red flagged after 2 laps then 1 lap, the medical center was full of broken people so they had to stop for a while then it pissed down for the rest of the day.
This time. 4 laps first session Red flag, 1 lap 2nd session Red flag 3rd session 4 laps then Red flag, waited in pits, got cold tyres 2laps. 4th session we missed it due to being at the back of the car park and not hearing them say the groups had been moved time wise due to Red flags in the other groups and the medical center being full of broken bodies again.
After dinner a few laps then Red flag. next session didn't even finish the first lap and again another Red flag.
MSV can go and f
k themselves until they get some yellow flags.
I gave up and so did the others and went home.
That sounds like just about every time I've been to Snetterton! Last time I was there I left at lunchtime having done about three laps - I had a choice of being able to ride back to London on the twisties in the daylight or back home in the dark on the dual carriageway / M11 after a questionable additional number of laps. First time it pissed down all day and I didn't have my wets with me.
2nd time I got the first session then the other 2 were Red flagged after 2 laps then 1 lap, the medical center was full of broken people so they had to stop for a while then it pissed down for the rest of the day.
This time. 4 laps first session Red flag, 1 lap 2nd session Red flag 3rd session 4 laps then Red flag, waited in pits, got cold tyres 2laps. 4th session we missed it due to being at the back of the car park and not hearing them say the groups had been moved time wise due to Red flags in the other groups and the medical center being full of broken bodies again.
After dinner a few laps then Red flag. next session didn't even finish the first lap and again another Red flag.
MSV can go and f
k themselves until they get some yellow flags.I gave up and so did the others and went home.
FWIW I did a two dayer in France last summer with No Limits and don't remember one red flag.
Jazoli said:
Krikkit said:
Is it a symptom of people ignoring the rules perhaps? I've done a few car track sessions, and the number of people who ignore yellow flags is amazing...
Obviously you're the victim in the end, but if they can't use yellows properly then what else can you do.
There are no yellows, anything that would normally trigger a yellow in racing (not even a double waved yellow) automatically triggers the red flag.Obviously you're the victim in the end, but if they can't use yellows properly then what else can you do.
Doesn't really help either way of course, it's still a s
t-show.Krikkit said:
Yeah, but presumably they tried yellows before just going straight to red? What I'm saying is if they were ignored maybe that's why everything now brings out a red flag.
Doesn't really help either way of course, it's still a st-show.
They don’t use yellows at all, despite them still talking about them in briefings. MSV have made a decision to red flag every incident no matter what due to their issues with the HSE. This means that sessions tend to go like thisDoesn't really help either way of course, it's still a s
t-show.Groups start leaving pitlane - someone in the front group chucks it up the road / runs on / loses his GoPro, or whatever. Red flag comes out. Those on track ride round slowly back to pit lane. The track car, fail bus and ambulances go screaming out onto track. 5 minutes later they come back having picked up a bike & rider (with or without damage) / a GoPro / leaf that feel off a tree at Druids.
Groups start leaving pitlane. Someone in the first group chucks it down the road, often due to cold tyres and frustration at the delay.
Repeat stage one. On return to pitlane the chequered flag goes out. Everyone gets pissed off and the above stages get repeated for the whole of the day.
You might think I’m exaggerating, but I’ve seen days where some groups barely got 10 laps in the day and at nearly £200 for the day that’s not value for money.
Oulton is probably uber sensitive to flags due to that fatality that occurred over a crest awhile back?
Also IQ level of UK trackdayers seems to have taken a tumble in recent years. When you’ve done club racing and Euro trackdays the extra effort and logistics seem a pain at the time but it does keep the crashfest GSXR braying hyenas away.
Finally Covid might be having an effect with circuits struggling for marshall cover as they’re all getting on a bit and a track running light on the boys in orange might find it easier (and safer) to clear incidents under a red rather than a local yellow.
Also IQ level of UK trackdayers seems to have taken a tumble in recent years. When you’ve done club racing and Euro trackdays the extra effort and logistics seem a pain at the time but it does keep the crashfest GSXR braying hyenas away.
Finally Covid might be having an effect with circuits struggling for marshall cover as they’re all getting on a bit and a track running light on the boys in orange might find it easier (and safer) to clear incidents under a red rather than a local yellow.
The sensitivity is, as you say due to the fatality. It’s still rumbling on and there have been a couple since in race meetings, so it’s under heavy scrutiny. The marshalls are all good guys in the main, and only acting on orders with the red flags.
Totally agree on the IQ drop around the TD paddock. There seems to be some sort of hero worship of those who crash and those who crash seem to enjoy the attention rather than keeping their heads down.
Totally agree on the IQ drop around the TD paddock. There seems to be some sort of hero worship of those who crash and those who crash seem to enjoy the attention rather than keeping their heads down.
LF5335 said:
They don’t use yellows at all, despite them still talking about them in briefings. MSV have made a decision to red flag every incident no matter what due to their issues with the HSE. This means that sessions tend to go like this
Groups start leaving pitlane - someone in the front group chucks it up the road / runs on / loses his GoPro, or whatever. Red flag comes out. Those on track ride round slowly back to pit lane. The track car, fail bus and ambulances go screaming out onto track. 5 minutes later they come back having picked up a bike & rider (with or without damage) / a GoPro / leaf that feel off a tree at Druids.
Groups start leaving pitlane. Someone in the first group chucks it down the road, often due to cold tyres and frustration at the delay.
Repeat stage one. On return to pitlane the chequered flag goes out. Everyone gets pissed off and the above stages get repeated for the whole of the day.
You might think I’m exaggerating, but I’ve seen days where some groups barely got 10 laps in the day and at nearly £200 for the day that’s not value for money.
Surely that's all down to the riders / wanabee Rossis who think they're God. but clearly most of them don't have a clue, you can't really blame that on the circuit or organisers, the red flag culture has become far more prevalent, even in racing than a few years ago due to the potential repercussions if they get it wrong. Back when I was racing I can remember a 4 bike pile up at the first corner at Snetterton, bikes and bodies everywhere, fortunately nothing life changing for the riders just a couple with broken bones, only an 8 lapper or similar, but it carried onto the chequered flag, with riders being treated at the side of the track, I didn't mind cos I wonGroups start leaving pitlane - someone in the front group chucks it up the road / runs on / loses his GoPro, or whatever. Red flag comes out. Those on track ride round slowly back to pit lane. The track car, fail bus and ambulances go screaming out onto track. 5 minutes later they come back having picked up a bike & rider (with or without damage) / a GoPro / leaf that feel off a tree at Druids.
Groups start leaving pitlane. Someone in the first group chucks it down the road, often due to cold tyres and frustration at the delay.
Repeat stage one. On return to pitlane the chequered flag goes out. Everyone gets pissed off and the above stages get repeated for the whole of the day.
You might think I’m exaggerating, but I’ve seen days where some groups barely got 10 laps in the day and at nearly £200 for the day that’s not value for money.
but would be unheard of today even at club levelmartinbiz said:
Surely that's all down to the riders / wanabee Rossis who think they're God. but clearly most of them don't have a clue, you can't really blame that on the circuit or organisers, the red flag culture has become far more prevalent, even in racing than a few years ago due to the potential repercussions if they get it wrong. Back when I was racing I can remember a 4 bike pile up at the first corner at Snetterton, bikes and bodies everywhere, fortunately nothing life changing for the riders just a couple with broken bones, only an 8 lapper or similar, but it carried onto the chequered flag, with riders being treated at the side of the track, I didn't mind cos I won but would be unheard of today even at club level
Yes and no. Riders being muppets and chucking it down the road is down to them, but a red flag will be thrown for a bit of fairing on track, or a GoPro and similar minor things. This only happens at Oulton in my experience, other tracks work around it, use yellows etc and that’s why I was saying it’s ruining the experience. I’ve caused a red flag by rolling through the second chicane, parking my bike behind the marshall post and standing behind the barrier. Apparently I was in a “dangerous position” for anyone to hit me they’d have to run through the chicane, turn left (track goes right), ride through the marshal post and then they’d have hit my bike! I’d managed to warp my discs somehow and didn’t fancy rolling back slowly on a live track so thought I was doing the right thing as per the briefing, but it was still deemed a red flag incident! but would be unheard of today even at club levelRiders do need to look at themselves, but the paddock seems to have changed to Relentless hoody wearing hobby knobbers who just want to ride noisy bikes badly and then complain and blame others when they crash / get kicked off the day.
I was at Oulton on a 30*c day in August and I think nearly every session was red flagged. One was for someone that went wide at clay hill and lost the front. Bloke was up and walking and bike was on grass about 15ft from circuit.
Could have easily used a yellow and moved bike to armco. A red was just a joke.
Could have easily used a yellow and moved bike to armco. A red was just a joke.
LF5335 said:
I’ve caused a red flag by rolling through the second chicane, parking my bike behind the marshall post and standing behind the barrier. Apparently I was in a “dangerous position” for anyone to hit me they’d have to run through the chicane, turn left (track goes right), ride through the marshal post and then they’d have hit my bike! I’d managed to warp my discs somehow and didn’t fancy rolling back slowly on a live track so thought I was doing the right thing as per the briefing, but it was still deemed a red flag incident!
I’ve had similar at Bedford when I broke my shifter last year, pulled right off the track, miles away from anything, yet it got red flagged.I'm at Cadwell Friday, hoping for at least a few dry sessions but I have a question re. tyre pressures; when it's cold(ish) do you drop the pressures to create more movement and therefore more heat as well as increasing the contact patch or increase the (cold) pressures because the tyres won't get enough heat into them to reach the optimum? Inters on road tyres without warmers...
I'd put your front at cold 33 rear about 29-30
Soon as you've done your first session check pressures ideally for me I reckon 34f and 29 give or take rear
Road tyres do vary a bit and you need to go on feel. Running 34r which is my typical road pressure I reckon would get them real hot once on track
Soon as you've done your first session check pressures ideally for me I reckon 34f and 29 give or take rear
Road tyres do vary a bit and you need to go on feel. Running 34r which is my typical road pressure I reckon would get them real hot once on track
Few pics from Jerez with Redline. Weather was perfect. Had Luis from BMSracetech with me for a day to help set the bike up which was well worth it, feels like a totally different bike now!
Had a slight crash on the first day losing the front at the last corner, but a load of duct tape later i was back out. Also won the “special session” as they couldn’t call it a race which was good
Had a slight crash on the first day losing the front at the last corner, but a load of duct tape later i was back out. Also won the “special session” as they couldn’t call it a race which was good
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