New (to me) bike, and a tale to tell
Discussion
[lies back in psychiatrist's couch and stares at ceiling]
My dad was always in to bikes (as was my grandfather), and in the mid 70s when I had my Z900, he went out and bought a Z650. But his dream bike had always been an Indian, and as a kid he would tell me of the ‘big Indians’ he’d seen and lusted after in the war. At that time, the last Indian would have been produced just some 20 years before, so to me they were ‘old bikes’…but coming up to date my GPZ1100 is 34 years old and it still seems like a newish bike to me, so I can understand 40s/50s Indians would seem newish to him.
Anyway, I consequently always had a soft spot for Indians – and the launch of the new Polaris bikes coincided with the realisation I’d lost interest in sports bikes and so I was first in line (well almost, but I did get one of the first batch of numbered bikes in the UK in 2014)
And what a glorious thing it is. I know the looks are marmite, but I love it. And it is, without doubt, the most satisfying bike to ride I’ve ever thrown a leg across. Whether just popping up to the shops, hacking 600+ miles in a day, or baiting badly-ridden point-and-squirt sports bikes through the twisties it’s never failed to deliver. And as a consequence, not something I ever see replacing.
But I’d also always wanted an older bike to mess about with since my 'big bike' path started on old bikes, and a bucket-list skill was to learn to ride a foot clutch and hand shift. But lots of the vintage stuff is painfully slow in todays traffic, but an old Chief seemed to fit the bill as with about 40-50hp and relatively light (no starter motor, no indicators, simple frame, no electronics etc) I’d guessed a performance on par with something like a modern cooking 500, but with worse handling and no brakes!
[/lies back in psychiatrist's couch and stares at ceiling]
I’ve therefore been looking about for a long time now for an immediate post-war Chief…and now I have a '46 Chief
...and it looks tiny compared to the current Chief. Still lots to do before I attempt to fire it up, but it’s in the garage now and the tinkering has started. And now looking for some period leather bags with fringes
[back on the couch]
Of couse, now the buyer remorse/guilt kicks in! Shouldn’t I have bought something modern – like getting a Panigale or an H2? Far more bragging rights no doubt, but the sensible side of me says I’m just not capable of riding a modern superbike to anywhere near potential, and something old and oily has a certain appeal. So, we’ll see.
[/back on the couch]
Time will tell if this was a sensible decision, but for the time being I’m looking forward to getting it fired up and mastering that foot clutch
...and hey, it's another bike in the garage
My dad was always in to bikes (as was my grandfather), and in the mid 70s when I had my Z900, he went out and bought a Z650. But his dream bike had always been an Indian, and as a kid he would tell me of the ‘big Indians’ he’d seen and lusted after in the war. At that time, the last Indian would have been produced just some 20 years before, so to me they were ‘old bikes’…but coming up to date my GPZ1100 is 34 years old and it still seems like a newish bike to me, so I can understand 40s/50s Indians would seem newish to him.
Anyway, I consequently always had a soft spot for Indians – and the launch of the new Polaris bikes coincided with the realisation I’d lost interest in sports bikes and so I was first in line (well almost, but I did get one of the first batch of numbered bikes in the UK in 2014)
And what a glorious thing it is. I know the looks are marmite, but I love it. And it is, without doubt, the most satisfying bike to ride I’ve ever thrown a leg across. Whether just popping up to the shops, hacking 600+ miles in a day, or baiting badly-ridden point-and-squirt sports bikes through the twisties it’s never failed to deliver. And as a consequence, not something I ever see replacing.
But I’d also always wanted an older bike to mess about with since my 'big bike' path started on old bikes, and a bucket-list skill was to learn to ride a foot clutch and hand shift. But lots of the vintage stuff is painfully slow in todays traffic, but an old Chief seemed to fit the bill as with about 40-50hp and relatively light (no starter motor, no indicators, simple frame, no electronics etc) I’d guessed a performance on par with something like a modern cooking 500, but with worse handling and no brakes!
[/lies back in psychiatrist's couch and stares at ceiling]
I’ve therefore been looking about for a long time now for an immediate post-war Chief…and now I have a '46 Chief
...and it looks tiny compared to the current Chief. Still lots to do before I attempt to fire it up, but it’s in the garage now and the tinkering has started. And now looking for some period leather bags with fringes
[back on the couch]
Of couse, now the buyer remorse/guilt kicks in! Shouldn’t I have bought something modern – like getting a Panigale or an H2? Far more bragging rights no doubt, but the sensible side of me says I’m just not capable of riding a modern superbike to anywhere near potential, and something old and oily has a certain appeal. So, we’ll see.
[/back on the couch]
Time will tell if this was a sensible decision, but for the time being I’m looking forward to getting it fired up and mastering that foot clutch
...and hey, it's another bike in the garage
Brave! (Do you see what I did there? )
I used to have trouble switching between right and left foot gearchange, so I've always been convinced that a foot clutch/hand change would have put me through the nearest hedge.
As for a left hand throttle (which I assume this doesn't have)...
)I used to have trouble switching between right and left foot gearchange, so I've always been convinced that a foot clutch/hand change would have put me through the nearest hedge.
As for a left hand throttle (which I assume this doesn't have)...
Edited by gareth_r on Wednesday 21st November 19:47
Very cool I can understand the appeal.
In the US they actually have niche bike manufacturers that make new "retro" big twins based on new mechanical that look like the old versions of Indian and Harleys ...the "ultimate" retro for some I guess....but for me I would want an original...if I had the patience and time required to tinker with it.
I can understand the appeal.In the US they actually have niche bike manufacturers that make new "retro" big twins based on new mechanical that look like the old versions of Indian and Harleys ...the "ultimate" retro for some I guess....but for me I would want an original...if I had the patience and time required to tinker with it.
tvrolet said:
Of couse, now the buyer remorse/guilt kicks in! Shouldn’t I have bought something modern – like getting a Panigale or an H2?
No. Next question.f
k my holes that's ace - really pleased for you! I have a couple of BSAs and a Honda. Nothing compares to a proper old mechanical bike you've worked on yourself. They're motorbikes. If motorbikes were bought with the head instead of the heart we'd all be driving diesel golfs.Unbusy said:
NIcely written, your passion comes across for the bike. Time to fess up, I never knew about a foot clutch before I read this. I would need to have a load of old mattresses strapped to the sides before I would try it. Enjoy fettling it and please keep this thread updated!
IIRC, although conventional controls were available from the early 1950s, foot clutch/hand shift was an option on the Harley big twin until the mid-'70s, mainly because the police liked it.
Did an oil change and checked everything out - managed to get oil returning to the tank kicking it over with the plugs out, managed to get a spark, so what better than to put some fuel in and try to get the old girl going. Dug out my unused-for-40-years kick-starting skills and managed to get it fired up 
With a bit more tinkering, managed to get it idling rather nicely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGFFoN8SCO4
Not bad for a 70+ year-old bike
In the process of getting it registered with an age-related plate, and needs a few more bits and pieces checked out before I venture out on the Queen's highway - plus some more practice with the foot-clutch in the back garden. But I'm rather blown-away by how it settled down to idle
With a bit more tinkering, managed to get it idling rather nicely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGFFoN8SCO4
Not bad for a 70+ year-old bike
In the process of getting it registered with an age-related plate, and needs a few more bits and pieces checked out before I venture out on the Queen's highway - plus some more practice with the foot-clutch in the back garden. But I'm rather blown-away by how it settled down to idle
black-k1 said:
I think it looks brilliant and it's great to hear and see inning. Keep up the good work and let's see it on the road next summer.
I don't think it'll be going to Italy on it though...it'll be the 'modern' Chief doing that, unless something catastrophic happens! But I certainly plan some less ambitious touring in the UK with it over the summer once I get it fully shaken down,Janluke said:
Just caught up with this, fantastic.
Do you still have the Gpz or is it away?
Still got the GPz too - I had it up for sale, but no takers, even at a low price (or what I thought was a low price for it). Maybe the wrong time of year, or maybe I was too honest in the advert saying there was an oil weep from cylinders/barrels. I'd been looking for a '46/'47 Chief for some time and my expectation was that whatever I found would be my 'winter project' (and beyond!). But this one doesn't need too much work to get it up-to-scratch so I'll probably revisit the GPz over the winter and put a new head gasket/base gasket on it. Although I'm quite attached to it since I've had it for so long it's just too painful to ride any distance now as I'm just not used to this lean-forward/look-up style riding any more so I'll try to sell it again in the summer.Do you still have the Gpz or is it away?
For anyone interested, here’s a wee update.
First off, I really wanted a ’47 Chief…but I’d have been happy enough with a ’46 or ’48, and this was listed as a ’46 (although it looked like a ’47 to me). But having been over it with a fine tooth comb it’s absolutely definitely a genuine ‘matching numbers’ 1947 model But since the US (South Carolina) title claimed 1946 I’m guessing it was maybe made/bought in late 1946 since at that time Indian changed the model year on September 1. Anyway, the DVLA (and VMCC) accepted a 1946 year of manufacture on the evidence provided – so definitely a ’47 model (best year 
) but probably first registered in ’46.
I still haven't been able to find out much about it's history except it had been 'on display' for a while in a bar (or possibly a gentlemen's club). As such it had had a cosmetic restoration some time back, but incomplete and quite a few bodges. But it's had an engine rebuild some time back, and since it starts and runs fine I'm not inclined to pull the motor apart at this stage. Here's hoping it was a decent rebuild with decent parts!
Since I've had it I've spent pretty much every weekend in the garage messing about with it, plus a fortnight over Xmas and I've done almost everything I wanted to do to it for the time being. Assuming it stays reliable I'll maybe look at re-doing the paint next year and switching to chrome rims. Black rims were offered as standard in '47. but they also came with black handlebars and crashbars, and since I have chromed bars it should have chrome rims, My recreational reading has been restoration guides and period parts lists/explosions, and I've actually become quite nerdy over what's period correct and what's not. I can now date an Indian Chief from 40 paces and even tell if the wiring harness is routed properly!
So in no particular order – in addition to a full service, I changed wheel bearings (proper loose rollers, none of this new-fangled sealed bearings), put on a new generator and converted the electrics to 12 volt, new ignition switch and parts of the wiring harness (properly routed, with the period-correct cad-plated clips), got the brakes working as best they can…although they’re still cr@p, period correct battery and fittings/clamp (actually a fake with a modern dry battery inside, plus I put a circuit breaker in the case too), got the girder forks working properly, got the speedometer drive and speedometer working, I then got nerdy and replaced everything that I could see that was there but ‘wrong’, so lots of cad-plated clips, nuts and bolts, kickstart pedal, oil lines etc. And finally got some rather lovely period-correct leather saddlebags and seat made up in the US. Mmmm…sniff the real leather 
And since the sun was out today and the roads were dry, I went for a short run on it (short, because it was bl00dy cold). I’m getting the hang of the foot clutch and hand change. But then I went for a spin on the ‘new’ Chief and I have to say a hand clutch is soooo much more intuitive! But I understand the logic of a foot clutch on these bikes. At that time Indian hadn’t cracked a ‘return to centre’ gear change lever, so the further from neutral the further the lever ends up – not so clever for foot use. Also it’s a ‘crash’ box so some finesse is required in the gear change, so again a hand is better at this than a foot. Then the clutch – before modern clutch materials holding the (impressive at the time) 40hp meant a very heavy clutch – probably too heavy for hand-use; but easy to stomp on with a foot. Trying to press the foot pedal down with a hand (let alone just fingers) is pretty tough. So with a non return-to-centre gear lever, crash box and heavy clutch a foot clutch and a hand change actually makes sense. But still challenging in slow traffic!
Anyway, here are some pics after today's we run on both bikes back-to-back…
...and the old chap with the young lad...
The 40s/50s Indians were some of the longest/biggest bikes of the day, but it's dwarfed by the current Chief.
First off, I really wanted a ’47 Chief…but I’d have been happy enough with a ’46 or ’48, and this was listed as a ’46 (although it looked like a ’47 to me). But having been over it with a fine tooth comb it’s absolutely definitely a genuine ‘matching numbers’ 1947 model
But since the US (South Carolina) title claimed 1946 I’m guessing it was maybe made/bought in late 1946 since at that time Indian changed the model year on September 1. Anyway, the DVLA (and VMCC) accepted a 1946 year of manufacture on the evidence provided – so definitely a ’47 model (best year ) but probably first registered in ’46.I still haven't been able to find out much about it's history except it had been 'on display' for a while in a bar (or possibly a gentlemen's club
). As such it had had a cosmetic restoration some time back, but incomplete and quite a few bodges. But it's had an engine rebuild some time back, and since it starts and runs fine I'm not inclined to pull the motor apart at this stage. Here's hoping it was a decent rebuild with decent parts!Since I've had it I've spent pretty much every weekend in the garage messing about with it, plus a fortnight over Xmas and I've done almost everything I wanted to do to it for the time being. Assuming it stays reliable I'll maybe look at re-doing the paint next year and switching to chrome rims. Black rims were offered as standard in '47. but they also came with black handlebars and crashbars, and since I have chromed bars it should have chrome rims, My recreational reading has been restoration guides and period parts lists/explosions, and I've actually become quite nerdy over what's period correct and what's not. I can now date an Indian Chief from 40 paces and even tell if the wiring harness is routed properly!
So in no particular order – in addition to a full service, I changed wheel bearings (proper loose rollers, none of this new-fangled sealed bearings), put on a new generator and converted the electrics to 12 volt, new ignition switch and parts of the wiring harness (properly routed, with the period-correct cad-plated clips
), got the brakes working as best they can…although they’re still cr@p, period correct battery and fittings/clamp (actually a fake with a modern dry battery inside, plus I put a circuit breaker in the case too), got the girder forks working properly, got the speedometer drive and speedometer working, I then got nerdy and replaced everything that I could see that was there but ‘wrong’, so lots of cad-plated clips, nuts and bolts, kickstart pedal, oil lines etc. And finally got some rather lovely period-correct leather saddlebags and seat made up in the US. Mmmm…sniff the real leather And since the sun was out today and the roads were dry, I went for a short run on it (short, because it was bl00dy cold). I’m getting the hang of the foot clutch and hand change. But then I went for a spin on the ‘new’ Chief and I have to say a hand clutch is soooo much more intuitive! But I understand the logic of a foot clutch on these bikes. At that time Indian hadn’t cracked a ‘return to centre’ gear change lever, so the further from neutral the further the lever ends up – not so clever for foot use. Also it’s a ‘crash’ box so some finesse is required in the gear change, so again a hand is better at this than a foot. Then the clutch – before modern clutch materials holding the (impressive at the time) 40hp meant a very heavy clutch – probably too heavy for hand-use; but easy to stomp on with a foot. Trying to press the foot pedal down with a hand (let alone just fingers) is pretty tough. So with a non return-to-centre gear lever, crash box and heavy clutch a foot clutch and a hand change actually makes sense. But still challenging in slow traffic!
Anyway, here are some pics after today's we run on both bikes back-to-back…
...and the old chap with the young lad...
The 40s/50s Indians were some of the longest/biggest bikes of the day, but it's dwarfed by the current Chief.
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