Buying a vintage Royal Enfield from India
Discussion
Hi All. I am looking for advice.
I first rode a Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc in Delhi about 25 years ago. I can remember that it was heavy, slow and noisy - but i loved it.
I am now looking for a good condition RE bullet and want something old. I have learnt that the 350cc bullet is old and in India the 500cc only came about in 1981 onwards.
I am looking for a G2 (old normally UK built) 350cc bike and have found a few dealers in India. These bikes are between £3k and £5k in the UK, but a good used one can be bought for £750 - £1k in India.
I like the look of a few simple modifications and am keen to have those fitted to the bike in India prior to shipping. I have round a 1965 ex Indian Army RE Bullet G2 for £750. Shipping will be around £500 on top of that, making the bike a bagain.
I have read that it will need a MOT and IVA test certificate, but this cant be hard to obtain for a classic bike.
Does anyone have experience of importing a bike from India or perhaps a specialist in RE history? I want to be sure that I buy a matching numbers bike with all the right kit and with modifications that add value to the bike.
Any image for your trouble:
I first rode a Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc in Delhi about 25 years ago. I can remember that it was heavy, slow and noisy - but i loved it.
I am now looking for a good condition RE bullet and want something old. I have learnt that the 350cc bullet is old and in India the 500cc only came about in 1981 onwards.
I am looking for a G2 (old normally UK built) 350cc bike and have found a few dealers in India. These bikes are between £3k and £5k in the UK, but a good used one can be bought for £750 - £1k in India.
I like the look of a few simple modifications and am keen to have those fitted to the bike in India prior to shipping. I have round a 1965 ex Indian Army RE Bullet G2 for £750. Shipping will be around £500 on top of that, making the bike a bagain.
I have read that it will need a MOT and IVA test certificate, but this cant be hard to obtain for a classic bike.
Does anyone have experience of importing a bike from India or perhaps a specialist in RE history? I want to be sure that I buy a matching numbers bike with all the right kit and with modifications that add value to the bike.
Any image for your trouble:
You'll have to have it inspected to prove the date of manufacture. Not a big deal, just be aware. And probably a NOVA certificate. You used to need an MOT but that bit was unclear when I last imported a bike. That was around the time historic vehicles didn't need one the guy at the DVLA gave the impression it was good to get this first one just in case and not worry after that. The DVLA/HMRC are pretty helpful once you get through to a human.
I can guarantee the bike in the picture isn't a 1965 bike. It's also not a G2.
That bike (or at least the engine) is post 1973.
This is a long running scam - by all means buy one (I've got a couple of Enfields and they are great bikes) but don't pay extra for a "vintage" one.
Here are some links with more info on dating the bikes (serial number and whatnot) and other people who did the same thing...
https://www.royalenfields.com/2014/09/how-to-find-...
http://royal-enfield.10950.n7.nabble.com/Determini...
Edited to add: (sorry if I came across a bit abrupt!)
This is my area of nerd expertise, dating and identifying Indian built Enfields. It is possible to get an early bike out of India if you know your stuff, so if you really want one and you're clear with it's shortcomings, I'll help you with details, frame and engine numbers and other identifying features.
It's what the Royal Enfield club will do if you want an age related number plate, so we may as well wave a genuine oldie in front of them, and this bit will then be a formality!
That bike (or at least the engine) is post 1973.
This is a long running scam - by all means buy one (I've got a couple of Enfields and they are great bikes) but don't pay extra for a "vintage" one.
Here are some links with more info on dating the bikes (serial number and whatnot) and other people who did the same thing...
https://www.royalenfields.com/2014/09/how-to-find-...
http://royal-enfield.10950.n7.nabble.com/Determini...
Edited to add: (sorry if I came across a bit abrupt!)
This is my area of nerd expertise, dating and identifying Indian built Enfields. It is possible to get an early bike out of India if you know your stuff, so if you really want one and you're clear with it's shortcomings, I'll help you with details, frame and engine numbers and other identifying features.
It's what the Royal Enfield club will do if you want an age related number plate, so we may as well wave a genuine oldie in front of them, and this bit will then be a formality!
Edited by cwis on Thursday 8th August 17:26
MSVA (Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval) is only required if the bike is under 10 years old.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-sin...
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/motorcycle-sin...
Thanks Cwis. You didnt come across as grumpy. Buying an Enfield in India is a massive risk - i totally agree.
I like the look of bikes like the one in the picture. I always wanted a 500cc bullet, but have learnt that the older bikes are 350cc. I would like a bike from the 1960s but with some modifications to make it look nicer - more like a 1950s bike.
I have found an old 1965 bike owned by the indian army from new. Ive been told that it is original for £750. Its running and has all the paperwork.
Some more bike pictures are in order:
I like the look of bikes like the one in the picture. I always wanted a 500cc bullet, but have learnt that the older bikes are 350cc. I would like a bike from the 1960s but with some modifications to make it look nicer - more like a 1950s bike.
I have found an old 1965 bike owned by the indian army from new. Ive been told that it is original for £750. Its running and has all the paperwork.
Some more bike pictures are in order:
They do have huge appeal for me, they're the antithesis of modern bikes which are often a struggle to ride at sensible speeds. I suppose they're the motorcycle equivalent of a practical classic like a Morris Minor, you could use it all the time without it costing too much or struggling to find spare parts.
Me and a mate drunkenly bought one each from India as a bit of a joke and not really expecting to actually get the bikes. A few months later I got a call from the import company to tell me it had arrived at the port and I had a fee to pay. Mate got his at the same time
Bike was delivered a few days later, sent the documentation to the DVLA and received a log book after a few days. It was all a very easy process, got an MOT and insured it for pennies.
I think mine is 1973
Bike was delivered a few days later, sent the documentation to the DVLA and received a log book after a few days. It was all a very easy process, got an MOT and insured it for pennies.
I think mine is 1973
OK - here's what you need to look out for, for a 1965 Enfield. It's a bit wordy - apologies!
Get an old frame. Under the seat is a near vertical tube going from just under the tank to just over the gearbox.
Tubes coming diagonally up from the swingarm plates meet this tube. On the frame you want, they meet by bending round and being welded to it. On newer frames they are bolted to it.
Here's an old frame:
Here's a new frame:
Bikes in India that are genuinely dated as 1965 will be of 1962 manufacture. So they will have the OLD frame.
It will be a 350. You want a 350, it's actually a more pleasant and far tougher engine.
Some Indian restorers can offer a 500 engine pre 1982, this will be a 350 engine with the crankcase mouth bored out and a wider circle of cylinder head studs fitted (the old holes are filled with weld) so the larger barrel and head of the 500 can be fitted.
Assuming this is done well, AND the different conrod for the 500 is fitted, there's no reason why this conversion wouldn't work just as well as a post 1982 made-to-be-a-500 engine.
Unfortunately the 500 engines don't really work well in the UK. The pistons are far heavier than the 350 one (and the standard ones are a dodgy design) so the strain on the 500 at 5000rpm is the same as the 350 at about 8000rpm.
That's fine if you want to putter about sub 50mph using the torque like the Indians do - the engine will last forever. If you want to keep up with traffic on an English A road however it'll go bang at less than 10000 miles - either the crank bearings will let go, the conrod snap or the piston crown will detach from the skirt....
If you stick a high compression piston in the 350 (35 quid!) and re-time the cams (the Indians changed the timing compared to the English bikes for more torque and better fuel economy) you will make the same power as the 500 with less vibration and the crank and piston will be FAR less stressed.
Get an old frame. Under the seat is a near vertical tube going from just under the tank to just over the gearbox.
Tubes coming diagonally up from the swingarm plates meet this tube. On the frame you want, they meet by bending round and being welded to it. On newer frames they are bolted to it.
Here's an old frame:
Here's a new frame:
Bikes in India that are genuinely dated as 1965 will be of 1962 manufacture. So they will have the OLD frame.
It will be a 350. You want a 350, it's actually a more pleasant and far tougher engine.
Some Indian restorers can offer a 500 engine pre 1982, this will be a 350 engine with the crankcase mouth bored out and a wider circle of cylinder head studs fitted (the old holes are filled with weld) so the larger barrel and head of the 500 can be fitted.
Assuming this is done well, AND the different conrod for the 500 is fitted, there's no reason why this conversion wouldn't work just as well as a post 1982 made-to-be-a-500 engine.
Unfortunately the 500 engines don't really work well in the UK. The pistons are far heavier than the 350 one (and the standard ones are a dodgy design) so the strain on the 500 at 5000rpm is the same as the 350 at about 8000rpm.
That's fine if you want to putter about sub 50mph using the torque like the Indians do - the engine will last forever. If you want to keep up with traffic on an English A road however it'll go bang at less than 10000 miles - either the crank bearings will let go, the conrod snap or the piston crown will detach from the skirt....
If you stick a high compression piston in the 350 (35 quid!) and re-time the cams (the Indians changed the timing compared to the English bikes for more torque and better fuel economy) you will make the same power as the 500 with less vibration and the crank and piston will be FAR less stressed.
Wow - You clearly know your stuff. I will use your information as the basis of my quest to get a nice RE Bullet here in the UK.
I have found a dealer near Delhi who has sent me pictures of the bike below. Its supposed to be a 1960s Bullet and has been owned by the indian Army. Apparently all original. Its running and has 'matching numbers' and all the paperwork. He is asking £750.
I love the patina on this and would like to make a few modifications to make it look like a 1950s bike - like single seat etc and import to the UK.
BTW - if anyone is into BSA or Triumphs. I know the whereabouts of a few of these of 1950s vintage.
I have found a dealer near Delhi who has sent me pictures of the bike below. Its supposed to be a 1960s Bullet and has been owned by the indian Army. Apparently all original. Its running and has 'matching numbers' and all the paperwork. He is asking £750.
I love the patina on this and would like to make a few modifications to make it look like a 1950s bike - like single seat etc and import to the UK.
BTW - if anyone is into BSA or Triumphs. I know the whereabouts of a few of these of 1950s vintage.
I have done some light research on transportation fees and it seems that they can be shipped for between £500 and £750 to the UK. I am not 100% certain about import taxes, but have heard that they can be shipped as spare parts (Bike + engine). Not sure how true this is though.
I also read that if one can find someone who is moving containers between india and UK, the bike can be added with furniture and other goods and can arrive pretty quickly and pain free.
I also read that if one can find someone who is moving containers between india and UK, the bike can be added with furniture and other goods and can arrive pretty quickly and pain free.
I have PDF copies of some articles, written by Royce Creasey and published in Classic (Motorcycle) Mechanics about 40 years ago, on improving the Redditch 350 Bullet for everyday use.
They were on royal-enfield.net, but the "articles" link seems to be dead.
Obviously, references to suppliers and the easy availability of parts are a little out of date
, and I don't know if the info translates 100% to the Indian version, but if anyone wants copies e-mailed, let me know.
They were on royal-enfield.net, but the "articles" link seems to be dead.
Obviously, references to suppliers and the easy availability of parts are a little out of date
, and I don't know if the info translates 100% to the Indian version, but if anyone wants copies e-mailed, let me know.Edited by gareth_r on Friday 9th August 14:40
Ray Singh said:
Wow - You clearly know your stuff. I will use your information as the basis of my quest to get a nice RE Bullet here in the UK.
I have found a dealer near Delhi who has sent me pictures of the bike below. Its supposed to be a 1960s Bullet and has been owned by the indian Army. Apparently all original. Its running and has 'matching numbers' and all the paperwork. He is asking £750.
I love the patina on this and would like to make a few modifications to make it look like a 1950s bike - like single seat etc and import to the UK.
BTW - if anyone is into BSA or Triumphs. I know the whereabouts of a few of these of 1950s vintage.
That's a pre '73 engine. The serial on it doesn't add up though - it's too short. '65 ones should be G2/XXXXX, that is G2, then a slash, then 5 digits. I have found a dealer near Delhi who has sent me pictures of the bike below. Its supposed to be a 1960s Bullet and has been owned by the indian Army. Apparently all original. Its running and has 'matching numbers' and all the paperwork. He is asking £750.
I love the patina on this and would like to make a few modifications to make it look like a 1950s bike - like single seat etc and import to the UK.
BTW - if anyone is into BSA or Triumphs. I know the whereabouts of a few of these of 1950s vintage.
There should also be two sets of engine numbers - a G2/ and an EI number from 1965 on.
I think the old number has been ground off and a new (older) one stamped. Can I see a faint "X" from the old number near the top of the third photo? That engine would be a 1972-1973 engine then.
I would avoid this one. Keep looking!
gareth_r said:
I have PDF copies of some articles, written by Royce Creasey and published in Classic (Motorcycle) Mechanics about 40 years ago, on improving the Redditch 350 Bullet for everyday use.
They were on royal-enfield.net, but the "articles" link seems to be dead.
Obviously, references to suppliers and the easy availability of parts are a little out of date, and I don't know if the info translates 100% to the Indian version, but if anyone wants copies e-mailed, let me know.
Thanks Gareth. I would be interested in seeing these articles. I wrote to the RE club asking if they could help me to buy a bike - no response.....They were on royal-enfield.net, but the "articles" link seems to be dead.
Obviously, references to suppliers and the easy availability of parts are a little out of date
, and I don't know if the info translates 100% to the Indian version, but if anyone wants copies e-mailed, let me know.Edited by gareth_r on Friday 9th August 14:40
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