Ducati fans. Which are the real landmark sports bikes?
Discussion
For me, my current bike (1098S) tells me that the 1098 model deserves it's place amongst the genuine leap-forward Ducatis.
The others are the 998, the iconic 916 and the 851.
Going back further, my 900SS of 1978 was a brilliant bike, for it's time.
Which of the big Duc-vees are special to you?
The others are the 998, the iconic 916 and the 851.
Going back further, my 900SS of 1978 was a brilliant bike, for it's time.
Which of the big Duc-vees are special to you?
The 851 was an all-new bike. Landmark.
The 916 had a combination of style, sound and performance like never put together before on a motorbike.
The 998 took the somewhat fussy 996 engine and gave it revs and power and reliabilty anew.
The 1098S is, quite simply, the best road bike i have ever owned.
Shattering outright performance, good day to day usability (for a supersports and way better than a 916) and looks, sound and exclusivity to die for.
Totally awesome, i just wish i could have got the 1098R as planned originally.
The 916 had a combination of style, sound and performance like never put together before on a motorbike.
The 998 took the somewhat fussy 996 engine and gave it revs and power and reliabilty anew.
The 1098S is, quite simply, the best road bike i have ever owned.
Shattering outright performance, good day to day usability (for a supersports and way better than a 916) and looks, sound and exclusivity to die for.
Totally awesome, i just wish i could have got the 1098R as planned originally.
Rocket Pepper said:
As great as the 1098 may be at being a super bike, faster, better handling, comfort over distance, whatever, it will never be what the 916 is.
The 916 was designed as a race bike to win the WSB series. That is why still to this day its purity and focus as a race bike in road form make it much more involving to ride fast than a 1098.
When you've ridden a 916 hard for 100 miles, you feel like you've just won a super bike race. When you ride a 1098 hard for 100 miles, you feel like you've ridden a 1098 hard for 100 miles. That's the difference.
True, but race bikes often make lousy road bikes.The 916 was designed as a race bike to win the WSB series. That is why still to this day its purity and focus as a race bike in road form make it much more involving to ride fast than a 1098.
When you've ridden a 916 hard for 100 miles, you feel like you've just won a super bike race. When you ride a 1098 hard for 100 miles, you feel like you've ridden a 1098 hard for 100 miles. That's the difference.
Stu R, you make very good points about the 1098.
The fact is that it is a road bike and as such, is a much better bike than the 851, or 916 models which i owned (and loved).
When you get a package, that includes Ducati V-Twin noise, 1098 looks, 150 bhp, v-twin character and feel, reliability, plus very much better torque from low revs than the 916s could muster, you know you have something very special.
My favourite recent Ducatis are the 1098S and 749R.
The latter is an under-rated bike, the incredibly revvy engine a whole lotta fun.
The fact is that it is a road bike and as such, is a much better bike than the 851, or 916 models which i owned (and loved).
When you get a package, that includes Ducati V-Twin noise, 1098 looks, 150 bhp, v-twin character and feel, reliability, plus very much better torque from low revs than the 916s could muster, you know you have something very special.
My favourite recent Ducatis are the 1098S and 749R.
The latter is an under-rated bike, the incredibly revvy engine a whole lotta fun.
Rocket Pepper said:
Beemer-5 said:
True, but race bikes often make lousy road bikes.
Yeah but roads make great race tracks, perfect for a 916 then.'Racetracks', that have;
lots of people/vehicles coming the other way, standing cattle every so often, white van man on your side of the road on a regular basis, 15 mph tractors taking up most of the road, Mavis Giddings in her 32 mph Mini Metro and the occasional artic spill of cheap diesel---are crap!
mywifeshusband said:
trumpet600 said:
mywifeshusband said:
I actually considered one but bought a Jota instead.
Was you dissappointed?I doubt it.
Great choice IMO
Try one, you may even prefer it to the 180.
I did, so i bought a new 120 in 1983.
Rocket Pepper said:
The trick is to enjoy the hazards and obstacles for what they are. A challenge in themselves. Tracks are boring without anyone else on them. I love the challenge as opposed to just going around in funny shaped loops.
I beg to differ.The public road isn't the place to be doing 180+ mph and cornering at 'ten-tenths'.
Something like the fastest new Japanese 1000s can virtually never be fully extended on the public road, whereas tracks are much faster, much more fun and far, far safer. You CAN ride these bikes properly there.
TBH, I have always said that drivers and riders who genuinely consider themselves to be quick pilots should get out on the track, where it matters.
That's also where the vast majority of these riders and drivers discover just how slow they, in fact, are, compared to the regular trackday boys. Many a big ego has been left in tatters, after a few laps of being passed by smaller and slower bikes!
The amount of motorcyclists who have killed themselves and left fatherless kids behind, or landed in jail, or get themselves a lengthy ban, show just how idiotic it is to go crazy fast on the Queen's highway.
Of course none or few of us are angels, but the occaional blast where it is safe cannot get anywhere near the fun and satisfaction of hustling a modern sports bike around a track, i e a road designed for racing, not designed to get granny to her pension collection point.
996 sps said:
Does everyone agree here that on the road Ducatis are a bit of a mare to get used to and ride as hard as a Jap 4?
The 1098 gets such a slating against Jap Litre bikes for flighty handling and needing exact set up - I jumped on my brothers K7 Gixer 1000 and had my knee down and felt comfortable fairly rapidly, again for me its the passion thing I openly admit my Blade and Gixer where far easier to ride.
Bikes have long since been more than fast enough for the road, even for very spirited riding.The 1098 gets such a slating against Jap Litre bikes for flighty handling and needing exact set up - I jumped on my brothers K7 Gixer 1000 and had my knee down and felt comfortable fairly rapidly, again for me its the passion thing I openly admit my Blade and Gixer where far easier to ride.
Once you have more than enough power and go, it's other things we look for in a bike.
Value for money, performance, reliabilty, cost to run, etc, the Japanese 4 cylinder 1000s are the kings, awesome bikes.
For me, i don't need more than 150 bhp for the modern roads, so after sufficient power i look for things like sound, feel, character, exclusivity and looks.
A GSXR1000 is a 'better' bike than a 1098S, just as a VW Golf is a 'better' car than a Alfa 147 GTA, but i'll take the Italians, please.
Rocket Pepper said:
Beemer-5 said:
I beg to differ.
The public road isn't the place to be doing 180+ mph and cornering at 'ten-tenths'.
Please, no offense, but at 47 and set in my ways, I really don't need the sanctimonious bull. You like tracks for riding fast, where as they bore me after so long. The public road isn't the place to be doing 180+ mph and cornering at 'ten-tenths'.
I prefer ripping across open country endangering the lives of small children and OAP's. Man you shoulda been there the day I hit 247mph on the rear wheel past some school for the blind up near................oh I'm so irresponsible with all that power.
No offence, (with a 'c') taken, but the biggest 'bull' as you put it, is that which reckons that the road is a place you can go super fast on a regular basis on.
As recently as last July i lost a good mate (36) who thought that the road was safe to use as a racetrack...
YamR1V64motion said:
Beemer-5 said:
996 sps said:
Does everyone agree here that on the road Ducatis are a bit of a mare to get used to and ride as hard as a Jap 4?
The 1098 gets such a slating against Jap Litre bikes for flighty handling and needing exact set up - I jumped on my brothers K7 Gixer 1000 and had my knee down and felt comfortable fairly rapidly, again for me its the passion thing I openly admit my Blade and Gixer where far easier to ride.
Bikes have long since been more than fast enough for the road, even for very spirited riding.The 1098 gets such a slating against Jap Litre bikes for flighty handling and needing exact set up - I jumped on my brothers K7 Gixer 1000 and had my knee down and felt comfortable fairly rapidly, again for me its the passion thing I openly admit my Blade and Gixer where far easier to ride.
Once you have more than enough power and go, it's other things we look for in a bike.
Value for money, performance, reliabilty, cost to run, etc, the Japanese 4 cylinder 1000s are the kings, awesome bikes.
For me, i don't need more than 150 bhp for the modern roads, so after sufficient power i look for things like sound, feel, character, exclusivity and looks.
A GSXR1000 is a 'better' bike than a 1098S, just as a VW Golf is a 'better' car than a Alfa 147 GTA, but i'll take the Italians, please.
That's why i try and buy as many types of bikes as i can within my budget.
To experience as many kinds of bike pleasure as possible!
I really do think that the 749R and 1098S are the best 2 bikes i have owned, for overall sports bike satisfaction.
Rocket Pepper said:
I think we can all agree, most everyone that rides fast on the road does so with a modicum of competence and responsibility. I just get pissed off when fellow bikers give it 'the safest place is the track' type lectures, then they assume you're a danger to others because you use the road somewhat irresponsibly compared to them, just because you admit to riding the wheels off your bike.
It is possible that both of us have slightly misunderstood the other.In no particular order, i will answer your points.
'31 years riding on the road' doesn't 'prove that you can ride fast on the road safely'.
One could just as easily say, that the 9 friends i have lost to bike accidents since the early 1980s, when the first one died, 'is proof that going fast on the road is fatal'.
We can believe it which way we want.
Okay, you may be an exception, but i am sorry, i know plenty of people as friends and meet up on the road with many more, who clearly DO think that it's okay to treat the road as a racetrack.
YOU may be particularly careful, skillful and attentive, i wouldn't know, but, for example, the Yamaha R6 which was written off near Leek recently was piloted by someone who obviously thought that the Cat and Fiddle was a 'safe' place to race his mates on at huge speed. A little bad bit of road surface is thought to have been why he dropped his bike and then stopped his body from 90 mph against a van.
Needless to say, he probably won't walk again, let alone get back on a bike.
Also YOU are using the words bull and twaddle.
I could just as easily say that you are 'talking out of your arse', but prefer reasoned debate.
keep it that way.
I make NO apologies whatsoever regarding the track being a better place to find out what a modern sports bike can do than the road.
Most riders of 180 bhp bikes never get anywhere near what the maker has enabled the bike to do on the road.
You simply cannot beat a 'road', where the surface is kept in superb and grippy condition, there are no unexpected farmers' vehicles, no diesel spills, no livestock, no horses, nothing coming the other way and no pedestrians/cyclists.
I will always disagree with you on that point.
Other than that i am happy that you have enjoyed your bikes for a similar amount of time to me.
I have now owned 92 motorcycles and have liked most of them.
The 1098S is amazing.
Peace.
Another aspect of all this.
In an age of more and more;
Speed cameras, Police forces hiring speed control helicopters, hidden Police camera vans...it ain't rocket science to see why so many riders are finding themselves on the bus, with their next insurance premium doubled.
No licence often means no job/career, too.
Not having to worry about the old bill is a massive advantage, when you're putting an R1 or the like through it's paces!
Speed humps breeding like rabbits just add to the pleasure of fast road riding! Not!
In an age of more and more;
Speed cameras, Police forces hiring speed control helicopters, hidden Police camera vans...it ain't rocket science to see why so many riders are finding themselves on the bus, with their next insurance premium doubled.
No licence often means no job/career, too.
Not having to worry about the old bill is a massive advantage, when you're putting an R1 or the like through it's paces!
Speed humps breeding like rabbits just add to the pleasure of fast road riding! Not!
blade7 said:
Rocket Pepper said:
Bull and twaddle are representative of my usual speech which includes much swearing. It's not personal. Sorry you felt it might be. I'm all for debate.
What I don't like is you giving your wealth of experience, vast as it is, and your sad experiences, as some sort of judgement against what I do on two wheels.
Put it another. The next time you're out on the road and you screw the nuts of that 1098 for just 1 minute, when you know it is absolutely safe to do so, think how hypocritical such is just because I choose to do similar frequently. That's why bikers on bikers telling what's best for all is 'bull' and 'twaddle'.
As for the track and its limits, real world riding is more like the TT course than Donnington, Brands or Cadwell. I'm sure the limits might apply different for each type of discipline, racing(TT) on the roads or the circuits, but I'd be happy to argue there are many limits NOT found on a modern super bike when ridden hard on a smooth race track. Not to mention the experience lost, or gained, from ignoring one or the the other, but the road one can never have too much experience of. To ride tracks in preference of roads is in some way, no matter how little, creating lesser experience with the roads no matter how unintentional.
Peace back.
Don't dare to contradict beemer, I had a snotty pm when I did, and with 5k posts in 2 years he's a real keyboard warrior,What I don't like is you giving your wealth of experience, vast as it is, and your sad experiences, as some sort of judgement against what I do on two wheels.
Put it another. The next time you're out on the road and you screw the nuts of that 1098 for just 1 minute, when you know it is absolutely safe to do so, think how hypocritical such is just because I choose to do similar frequently. That's why bikers on bikers telling what's best for all is 'bull' and 'twaddle'.
As for the track and its limits, real world riding is more like the TT course than Donnington, Brands or Cadwell. I'm sure the limits might apply different for each type of discipline, racing(TT) on the roads or the circuits, but I'd be happy to argue there are many limits NOT found on a modern super bike when ridden hard on a smooth race track. Not to mention the experience lost, or gained, from ignoring one or the the other, but the road one can never have too much experience of. To ride tracks in preference of roads is in some way, no matter how little, creating lesser experience with the roads no matter how unintentional.
Peace back.
Dreadful, eh.
I so wish i had your experience with decent bikes, Bladey...
Rocket Pepper said:
Scoobster, there is no doubting you know of what you speak, and have impeccable taste. Funny you mention the old Paso. Never took to it in red, but the blue just looks way futuristic for its time. The 'Ferrari' styling takes some getting your head around, but once it does, it just clicks and becomes understandable. The aerodynamics really work on the Paso. The old air cooled two valve can do over 140mph and not hang about getting there. In he late 80's early 90's that's some performance.
As for Beemer, I'm certain he's just as passionate about bikes as the best. There's really no need to fall out on a forum, and clearly Beemer deserves a whole lot of respect owning the amount of bikes he has/does. Lucky bleeder
Thanks, Rocket.As for Beemer, I'm certain he's just as passionate about bikes as the best. There's really no need to fall out on a forum, and clearly Beemer deserves a whole lot of respect owning the amount of bikes he has/does. Lucky bleeder
For my sins, i have always made myself a whole lot poorer, because of bikes, but you are right, they have been a huge part of me for 35 years now.
I only ever call it as i honestly see it, from the information that biking has given me. If that's wrong to some, so be it.
No worries.
Rocket Pepper said:
Beemer-5 said:
I only ever call it as i honestly see it, from the information that biking has given me. If that's wrong to some, so be it.
No worries.
It's the Internet I reckon. You can say stuff with the best will in the world, and often be slated for being right but a clever git to boot. Or being wrong, and hung drawn and quartered even more often No worries.
It is possible, on forums, to pick holes in just about anybody's well-meant posts, if people are sad enough to want to.
(For either stating the obvious, having a leftfield bike/opinion, being too old, too young, being right, being wrong, whatever.)
I am just hoping to ride decent bikes until and past 60 and i am sure you will, Rocket P, too!
blade7 said:
Beemer-5 said:
blade7 said:
Beemer-5 said:
No, i am nowhere near as good as you at riding a bike, Bladey.
I couldn't possibly be.
This I know to be true.I couldn't possibly be.
It's all that experience on bikes you have over me...
Preferably, including places like Laguna Seca CA, Riverside CA, Spa Belgium, Brands Hatch and Donington Park.
Then i might, might, just take you seriously, pal.
(LMFAO).
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