Top end tappety type noise

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QBee said:

Have to agree re the plugs. This risk if buying fakes worried me enough to make me buy such lowish value things from my local Autospares chain. My Bosch 044 fuel pump came from them, as they were able to guarantee it genuine Bosch. Ditto the plugs, genuine NGK.

I was bitten by a Saab coil pack from China.....lasted three months, at which point they refused to honour their two year warranty. bds. I never buy anything technological or automotive from China now.

I will be taking it up with trading standards as same guy is still selling same fakes. I ask questions of traceability when I buy again.

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lancepar said:

Just in case you didn't already have this info' Frank,

Here are a couple of pages from the RV8 Engine Overhaul Manual, I posted them on a previous thread. When they open in thumbsnap click em to enlarge.





On page 8 (12M1086) it shows how the oil flows from the camshaft front bearing. (Guidance only in your case).

On page 12 (12M0913) there is a Caution note regarding the Woodruff key.

Glad there is light at the end of the tunnel and it aint a train coming your way

Thanks Lance thats useful. Moght see if I can get a copy of that book.

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Spoke with technical dept at NGK to discuss where to get genuine plugs from they confirmed my local parts co Leamoco is the place for me to go.

Also discussed my potentially "fake" plugs. They have asked me to send the set I bought in 2017 and any paperwork for tech evaluation so shall whip them out and send them off.

Info I have been given over the suggests the woodruff key from the original 400 engine was possibly put in the 4.6 crank when car had its transplant from 4.0 to 4.6. Apparently the 400 engines had rover 3.5/3.9 front ends ie with distributor, and those woodruff keys aŕe smaller than those on newer 4.6 cranks/blocks.

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phazed said:

Just what I thought the spark plugs. I even said to Alan that it is a possibility but highly unlikely to be the Woodruff key, we discussed that on the phone. Amazing that someone would fit the wrong key.
The correct one is amazingly large.

Good call on the plugs fella. I swapped them around too and the problem stayed with the cylnder rather than the plug. Woodruff key is still a bit of an unknown as to how it happened but maybe the original 400 front was put on the 4.6 block and the woodruff key not teplaced for the correct one all tbc ?

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Just been speaking with Ian at RPI in Norfolk, very knowledgeable chap.

He thinks that what has happened is that as this is a 4.6 cross bolted block fitted with the earlier serpentine front end a crank spacer is needed to prevent the pulley floating around. He believes this spacer is not present.

When it stops raining I will be having the front off to see.


ETA
Looks like I do have a spacer/washer combination but unsure if its correct depth. So as matter of caution I will fit a new spacer and new washer.

This what is currently on it

Edited by blaze_away on Tuesday 11th June 11:56

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phazed said:

Looks correct to me but should have a large washer under the bolt.

Edited to say, I'm fairly certain that but not one hundred percent!

You are right. It should be spacer, washer and bolt.

Its an odd thing dont quite understand how its been made. It looks like a solid piece of metal and the bolt wont come out as the hole is an interference fit on the smooth part of bolt shaft and the threads are larger than the hole so the bolt cant be withdrawn.

So I have bought a new spacer, a washer and bolt.

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What a fabulous community you guys are.

When we give it comes back in spades.

As most of you already know if I can ever help a fellow tiv'er out I will also be there for you, TVR related or not, just ask.

Anyway back from the lovey kissey mincing slap stuff........

Got the timing cover off and the woodruff easily came out. I don't know what size it should be but it is approx. 50mm x 8.5 mm max



New one hopefully bigger coming by post.

Found another issue too.....vacuum unit on distributor is goosed does not hold a vacuum.

Other than that it all loves lovely and clean no wear marks on oil pump faces.

Need to wait for parts to arrive now and hopefully can make some progress.

ETA photo of timing gear, I guess this is vernier gear yes ?

Edited by blaze_away on Wednesday 12th June 16:35

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phazed said:

Yes, vernier gear set with very little wear if any by the looks of it.

Thanks for confirmation and yep there appears to be very little if any wear. Quite happy to leave that as it is.

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Great stuff.

Think I might finally be getting there.

Look forward to getting it back together at the weekend.

Also...Anthony (phazed) what an absolute star.
Have pm'd him

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Apologies chaps....both stars who I need to thank !!

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New woodruff key (WK) has arrived and its identical to the original one


The problem remains that the WK engages with the crank to cam chain sprocket and the oil pump sprocket but it sits to far down and back to engage the front harmonic balance pulley

Here it is how I think it should sit,


but it has free movement backwards so ends up not parallel with the shaft when it moves


So questions are
1, Do I need a bigger (longer or higher) WK ?
2. Is the key way in my crankshaft to long or deep ?
3. or something else ?

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phazed said:

My Woodruff key in both my 4.6 crankshaft and my 5.5 crankshaft fitted very snuggly, filled the whole recess while still protruding about 3–4 mm.

There wasn’t any chance of it sinking down any further, moving back or being in a position that didn’t engage the oil pump drive or the crank pulley.

Interesting so either my WK is smaller or the keyways are bigger ? I wonder which it is ?

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Would you be able to judge this one to be smaller than yours then ?

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phazed said:

That looks very Familia Frank. Unfortunately I haven’t got a spare to hand or a crankshaft!.

But I know someone who I’m sure will have. If you can’t get the information from the usual suspects, i.e. V8D or similar, try pming Precat, (Anthony) as he has lots of bits lying around and can more than likely help you.

Thanks Peter. Will follow up as you suggest.

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Thanks folks

Have pm'd Derek and (precat) Anthony

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Sardonicus said:

That keyway should and as got to be a snug interference fit in the crank, loose just wont cut it the pulley will fret and walk around on the nose of the crankshaft and you will always have issues inc the bolt coming loose or worse

Useful thanks.
Now I know that I will get timng gear off and measure length and depth of the keyways in the
1. Crank
2. Inside bottom timing wheel
3. Oil pump drive gear

I am thinking that the depth of the keyway in the timing wheel is allowing the woodruff key to "swing boat" in its keyway.

Its baffling me, what on earth is going on with this ?

The timing gear is "vernier" but dont know manufacturer but I am guessing the key ways should be a standard size.

Does anyone have or know where I can get the oem dimensions ?

May end up having to get a custom made woodruff key as the simplest solution or bottom timing gear wheel ?

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phazed said:

When the lower sprocket is fitted to the crankshaft it is a really snug fit and doesn’t move at all. In fact with the Woodruff key fitted firmly in position you usually have to gently tap and ease the lower sprocket over the Woodruff key so that it then sits in its position up against the shoulder on the crankshaft.

The crankshaft pulley will then slide easily without any resistance snugly into the nose of the crankshaft and will be perfectly held in place with the big nut, washer and sleeve tightened up to quite a high poundage

Good stuff thanks.
Better get measuring to see whats what

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Got some measurements

The key way on the shaft is 51mm long but the depth is 7.8 mm at its centre.

The depth of keyway in the oil pump drive gear is 2.3 mm

As the Woodruff is only 8.5mm high that leaves just 0.7 mm to protrude above the shaft, seems pathetically little.

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Great stuff guys big help.

That looks like where the trouble lies.RPI have measured stock crank and it stands at 1.7mm,

I now think the key way in the crank has been cut to deep.

I am off to see my old pal Mike Luck, (David Gerald TVR in Redditch). He's got some V8 lumps hanging around so will go measure and see what's what there.

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RPI just sent me a photo shows depth of keyway is 6.66mm

Mine is 7.8mm

EUREKA now need to get a custom made key cut