Chimaera won't crank - battery advice
Discussion
Hi everyone,
I decided that May would be the month that I'd start using my Chim this year. I hasn't been started for a while, but started fine last time it did, which would have been a few months ago.
It won't crank (I've done the immobiliser bypass successfully). The lights on the dash dim slightly when I turn the key fully, and I can hear the fuel pump, but she won't start. The battery is a 72 type 60 550a - it's lead acid and about 18 months old, but has had very very little use in terms of alternator charge, having only been charged up periodically by a normal battery charger, and then by battery conditioner since about a few months ago. It's never totally discharged, but it's got fairly low before. The green blob is showing indicating it's "healthy" however. I also tried to start it with the battery that came with the car when I bought it - history unknown and older, obviously. Green blob health indicator also showing - same thing, it won't crank.
Does the battery for RV8 TVRs have to be in absolutely tip top condition to start the car? If I need to get a new battery would AGM be the way to go? Whatever battery I buy would be topped up almost constantly with my recently acquired battery conditioner.
I decided that May would be the month that I'd start using my Chim this year. I hasn't been started for a while, but started fine last time it did, which would have been a few months ago.
It won't crank (I've done the immobiliser bypass successfully). The lights on the dash dim slightly when I turn the key fully, and I can hear the fuel pump, but she won't start. The battery is a 72 type 60 550a - it's lead acid and about 18 months old, but has had very very little use in terms of alternator charge, having only been charged up periodically by a normal battery charger, and then by battery conditioner since about a few months ago. It's never totally discharged, but it's got fairly low before. The green blob is showing indicating it's "healthy" however. I also tried to start it with the battery that came with the car when I bought it - history unknown and older, obviously. Green blob health indicator also showing - same thing, it won't crank.
Does the battery for RV8 TVRs have to be in absolutely tip top condition to start the car? If I need to get a new battery would AGM be the way to go? Whatever battery I buy would be topped up almost constantly with my recently acquired battery conditioner.
You can try with the 2 batteries in parallel, but if the indicator is green, you should at least hear the starter turning (and potentially slowing down quickly and not managing to start the engine).
If you hear the solenoid, try to hit a bit the starter body with a wooden piece, it could be stuck.
If you hear the solenoid, try to hit a bit the starter body with a wooden piece, it could be stuck.
Hi, yes, when I turn the key fully, there's no clicking noise from the solenoid, nothing - not a sausage. The 2 dash lights dim slightly, but that's it.
Both batteries are showing as healthy. My chim has the hot start problem which I need to address, but I've never had this problem from cold...
I'll clean up all the battery connections and see if that helps. If I wired the batteries in parallel, this would mean I would connect the + of one battery to the - of the other, then connect the remaining + and - to the car?
Both batteries are showing as healthy. My chim has the hot start problem which I need to address, but I've never had this problem from cold...
I'll clean up all the battery connections and see if that helps. If I wired the batteries in parallel, this would mean I would connect the + of one battery to the - of the other, then connect the remaining + and - to the car?
Edited by THEDAVINATOR on Thursday 1st May 09:23
Belle427 said:
If your happy the battery is good then the first thing to check is that the battery terminals are on properly, clean and tight.
If that looks ok then check the cable to the solenoid at the starter is also clean and tight.
Another quick and simple check is to run a jump lead form the -ve terminal of the battery and connect directly to the engine somewhere. This bypasses any battery earthing issue that can happen behind the dash.If that looks ok then check the cable to the solenoid at the starter is also clean and tight.
As you are not getting any Response even a click when cranking it will not be the battery unless its completely discharged so dont waste time doubling batteries. I would as a first step turn the ignition on and run a lead from the battery +12v to the solonoid terminal on the starter motor, just momentarily touch the solonoid connection and see if the starter responds. If it is dead the starter/solonoid has a problem. If it responds you have a problem between the ignition key crank contact, the hot start relay and the immobiliser contacts. Best of luck
I've cleaned up both the battery terminals and the battery cable connections on the car - still nothing, so there's nothing more I can do at that end.
Is the connection marked in red the starter or starter solenoid earth? It looks in a pretty bad state, the previous owner has put loads of copper grease on it. Getting to the starter is quite tricky what with the car being so low - what's the best way to gain access to it?
Yes, the dash lights dim, but only very very slightly, so it's not totally clear if current is being drawn or not...
Is the connection marked in red the starter or starter solenoid earth? It looks in a pretty bad state, the previous owner has put loads of copper grease on it. Getting to the starter is quite tricky what with the car being so low - what's the best way to gain access to it?
Yes, the dash lights dim, but only very very slightly, so it's not totally clear if current is being drawn or not...
You need to raise the front up on axle stands to get to the starter motor, then it's really easy.
If you're going to take a battery direct to the starter motor, please pull the king lead from the coil, so it won't jump into life, and of course put the car in neutral and chock the back wheels (sorry, I'm sure you know this). You will most likely be under the car when doing this.
It might be worth using a multimeter on those contact points before connecting another battery though, to measure the voltage coming through to the solenoid (the smaller wire), and get someone to turn the key. This might unveil where the problem is.
That earth connection does look a bit crusty, and pasting copper grease on the outside isn't going to clean the contacts.
It's not the only earthing contact, but TVR did send all its earthing through the chassis before reaching the battery.
A future step for you is to relook at that starter motor circuit, and if you can, invest around £150 in bits to run new cables, an additional earth, and consider a relay for the solenoid exciter wire. I've done all this, and the starting is 100% reliable on my car.
I also bypassed the immobiliser, but because it's a Foxguard, I was able to get the relays replaced and subsequently have removed the bypass as it works as originally intended (though with the relay, the strain is taken off the immobiliser circuit).
That's a topic for another day though, once you've assessed problem number one. The thread on here is this one: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It might just be a few bits that are showing their age, including the starter motor.
If you're going to take a battery direct to the starter motor, please pull the king lead from the coil, so it won't jump into life, and of course put the car in neutral and chock the back wheels (sorry, I'm sure you know this). You will most likely be under the car when doing this.
It might be worth using a multimeter on those contact points before connecting another battery though, to measure the voltage coming through to the solenoid (the smaller wire), and get someone to turn the key. This might unveil where the problem is.
That earth connection does look a bit crusty, and pasting copper grease on the outside isn't going to clean the contacts.
It's not the only earthing contact, but TVR did send all its earthing through the chassis before reaching the battery.
A future step for you is to relook at that starter motor circuit, and if you can, invest around £150 in bits to run new cables, an additional earth, and consider a relay for the solenoid exciter wire. I've done all this, and the starting is 100% reliable on my car.
I also bypassed the immobiliser, but because it's a Foxguard, I was able to get the relays replaced and subsequently have removed the bypass as it works as originally intended (though with the relay, the strain is taken off the immobiliser circuit).
That's a topic for another day though, once you've assessed problem number one. The thread on here is this one: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It might just be a few bits that are showing their age, including the starter motor.
Edited by PabloGee on Thursday 1st May 12:27
I managed to get some jump leads and connected one end to the battery - terminal, and one end to what looks like something to lift the engine out
Still nothing, I even turned the headlights on and they don't dim at all when the key is fully turned, so it looks like I'm going to have to get under it. @Pablogee - thanks for the reminder about disconnecting the king lead and making sure it's in neutral - very sound (potentially life-saving) advice. I can be a bit blasé when it comes to safety, sometimes forgetting rule No1 when working on cars - safety first.
A friend who's a paramedic told me once you wouldn't believe the amount of people who die while bodging cars on the drive - literally getting squished to death because the car rolls or starts when they're under it, or they're just using one jack and it fails....
Where's the best place to jack it up from at the front, and the best place to put the axle stands?
Still nothing, I even turned the headlights on and they don't dim at all when the key is fully turned, so it looks like I'm going to have to get under it. @Pablogee - thanks for the reminder about disconnecting the king lead and making sure it's in neutral - very sound (potentially life-saving) advice. I can be a bit blasé when it comes to safety, sometimes forgetting rule No1 when working on cars - safety first.
A friend who's a paramedic told me once you wouldn't believe the amount of people who die while bodging cars on the drive - literally getting squished to death because the car rolls or starts when they're under it, or they're just using one jack and it fails....
Where's the best place to jack it up from at the front, and the best place to put the axle stands?
I'm not sure what you were connecting with that jump lead mate, or what purpose it would serve.
I think that's part of a mounting bracket for the PAS motor.
You need a connection (jump leads are fine) from one of the starter motor mounting bolts to battery negative, then from battery positive direct to the small black wire with a spade connector on the starter motor, this is the solenoid. The starter motor should spring to life. If not, give it a sensible strong tap with a piece of wood, like the handle of a hammer. Try again. You will learn whether the starter motor is working or not.
Jacking it up depends on the height of the car and the jack you have.
Easiest is the outrigger corner just behind the front wheel, get it as high as you can, then slide an axle stand under the square section main chassis rail nearest that side. Then go to the other side and do the same. Two axle stands so the car is level.
Be careful not to trap anything like a cable clip or hanging wire. I also use something soft (like a piece of thick rubber sheet or carpet offcut) to protect my chassis powder coat.
If you've got a long and low jack, and the nose is high enough, you might be able to get to the foremost chassis crossmember, and lift up the nose in one go from the front. Just get the jack on to the centre of that crossmember, then you can put both axle stands in one go.
I can't do this with my gear, unless I drive the front wheels onto some blocks to lift it a little.
I think that's part of a mounting bracket for the PAS motor.
You need a connection (jump leads are fine) from one of the starter motor mounting bolts to battery negative, then from battery positive direct to the small black wire with a spade connector on the starter motor, this is the solenoid. The starter motor should spring to life. If not, give it a sensible strong tap with a piece of wood, like the handle of a hammer. Try again. You will learn whether the starter motor is working or not.
Jacking it up depends on the height of the car and the jack you have.
Easiest is the outrigger corner just behind the front wheel, get it as high as you can, then slide an axle stand under the square section main chassis rail nearest that side. Then go to the other side and do the same. Two axle stands so the car is level.
Be careful not to trap anything like a cable clip or hanging wire. I also use something soft (like a piece of thick rubber sheet or carpet offcut) to protect my chassis powder coat.
If you've got a long and low jack, and the nose is high enough, you might be able to get to the foremost chassis crossmember, and lift up the nose in one go from the front. Just get the jack on to the centre of that crossmember, then you can put both axle stands in one go.
I can't do this with my gear, unless I drive the front wheels onto some blocks to lift it a little.
Edited by PabloGee on Thursday 1st May 17:51
Ok - thanks so much for help - as you may be able to tell, I'm a bit of a newbie 
I thought anywhere on the engine would provide a good enough ground for the solenoid to work, but yes, what you said makes more sense. I'll get under it tomorrow and try and use this opportunity to replace both the Starter motor and solenoid cabling (and possibly the starter if necessary) and the solenoid relay mod - a car just has to work when you turn the key, otherwise it's ain't much use really....
I thought anywhere on the engine would provide a good enough ground for the solenoid to work, but yes, what you said makes more sense. I'll get under it tomorrow and try and use this opportunity to replace both the Starter motor and solenoid cabling (and possibly the starter if necessary) and the solenoid relay mod - a car just has to work when you turn the key, otherwise it's ain't much use really....Aim at this with the battery positive
You can also see how this chap fitted an earth (black) cable to the mounting bolt, this is fitted to go directly back to the battery negative in the footwell.
He hadn't run the solenoid exciter wire yet, hence the visible spade connector. When complete this set up is the ideal for cabling.
You can also see how this chap fitted an earth (black) cable to the mounting bolt, this is fitted to go directly back to the battery negative in the footwell.
He hadn't run the solenoid exciter wire yet, hence the visible spade connector. When complete this set up is the ideal for cabling.
Edited by PabloGee on Thursday 1st May 21:08
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