Plug extender alternative?
Discussion
Update, the NKG V05E isn't a suitable alternative. They're both too small and also have a screw type terminal at the lead side.
I have a missfire which I think is the cause of some of the hesitation between 1k-2krpm while accelerating and an inability to cruse at anything below 2krpm
While looking at the issue I can see on at least a couple of the HT leads it's occasionally arcing from the top of the extender. On inspection at least 6 of my extenders have cracked tops presumably from heat see pic. Looking for these parts they appear hard to source or expensive (~£10 each) for a part prone to failing.Would something like these NGK Resistor Spark Plug Cap be an acceptable alternative?
I've already ordered some heat protective sleeves (slow international shipping) and was considering getting rid of the extenders altogether but would these help in the interim?
I have a missfire which I think is the cause of some of the hesitation between 1k-2krpm while accelerating and an inability to cruse at anything below 2krpm
While looking at the issue I can see on at least a couple of the HT leads it's occasionally arcing from the top of the extender. On inspection at least 6 of my extenders have cracked tops presumably from heat see pic. Looking for these parts they appear hard to source or expensive (~£10 each) for a part prone to failing.
I've already ordered some heat protective sleeves (slow international shipping) and was considering getting rid of the extenders altogether but would these help in the interim?
Edited by wseed on Friday 5th May 08:56
I've recently replaced my extenders by Accel 9000 leads with ceramic boots, there's a few other guys who run these as well on the forum:
https://www.summitracing.com/int/search/product-li...
Not cheap, but should last quite a while, whereas extenders have always been a bit hit-and-miss.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/search/product-li...
Not cheap, but should last quite a while, whereas extenders have always been a bit hit-and-miss.
I ditched my extenders and am currently trialling some socks.
I got a length of each of these, cut into 8 and put one inside the other before putting the lead through it. The leads are heat resistant ones, too, so will see how these go...!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DRLKOA/ref...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DQGJY2/ref...
I got a length of each of these, cut into 8 and put one inside the other before putting the lead through it. The leads are heat resistant ones, too, so will see how these go...!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DRLKOA/ref...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DQGJY2/ref...
737 FLF said:
Thanks for the link unfortunately that's not the same part they're for 10/12mm plugs with a screw thread. If anyone else is interested the part required is VB05E I've ordered a set and will have a try with and without. Hopefully the heat protection will fit over both the leads and the caps.GR_TVR said:
I ditched my extenders and am currently trialling some socks.
I got a length of each of these, cut into 8 and put one inside the other before putting the lead through it. The leads are heat resistant ones, too, so will see how these go...!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DRLKOA/ref...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DQGJY2/ref...
Thanks for the links, they're good prices for the UK stock. I've ordered the made up double layer 25mm socks and also a 20mm cut to length version as a belt and braces approach. I got a length of each of these, cut into 8 and put one inside the other before putting the lead through it. The leads are heat resistant ones, too, so will see how these go...!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DRLKOA/ref...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DQGJY2/ref...
wseed said:
Edited by wseed on Friday 5th May 09:01
wseed said:
GR_TVR said:
I ditched my extenders and am currently trialling some socks.
I got a length of each of these, cut into 8 and put one inside the other before putting the lead through it. The leads are heat resistant ones, too, so will see how these go...!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DRLKOA/ref...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DQGJY2/ref...
Thanks for the links, they're good prices for the UK stock. I've ordered the made up double layer 25mm socks and also a 20mm cut to length version as a belt and braces approach. I got a length of each of these, cut into 8 and put one inside the other before putting the lead through it. The leads are heat resistant ones, too, so will see how these go...!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DRLKOA/ref...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005DQGJY2/ref...
QBee said:
Be careful and research this. I read somewhere that if you over-insulate the plugs they lose their natural air cooling and can overheat and melt. Could be male round objects, but it made sense at the time. Mine were fine with single socks...
This is very true, the problem is that no matter how good the insulation is, if you heat soak it for long enough the temperature will ultimately permeate through to the centre. Insulation doesn't prevent heat transfer, it only slows it down. Short term exposure works, long term exposure doesn't. Granted, NASA has developed some products that do prevent heat transfer but these woven socks are not space shuttle heat shields. The trick is to end up with a process where the rate of heat permeation is less than the rate of natural cooling. To achieve this the first thing you need to do is have both sides of the equation, insulation and cooling. If you fit loose socks then thermal air transfer should work to slowly refresh the air inside the sock. Pulling the HT leads away from the headers ensures that there is an air space on the hot side of the sock
QBee said:
Be careful and research this. I read somewhere that if you over-insulate the plugs they lose their natural air cooling and can overheat and melt. Could be male round objects, but it made sense at the time. Mine were fine with single socks...
In our case total bks you temp probe around that area and you will find no natural air cooling just st loads of heat radiated from the ex primaries even when on the move the plugs are recessed anyway and if this was the case plugs 7 & 8 failing would be a regular occurrence due to their restricted thus hotter location its not so I'm calling cods- wallop on this one, we dont hear Chimp-on-gas complaining he is shooting out plugs regular and he has 6 heat range plugs (hotter) thermal socks & hotter burning LPG and clean if not lean AFR's and what about the Turbo brigade running socks ? the ceramic part of the plug is a high temp insulator not an heat sink the ribs are there purely to resist flash over not aid cooling in fact many late plugs no longer have this ribbed part wicking away of excess plug heat is taken care of by the water jacket and anything more is down to not matching the plug temp range with the cylinder specs/enviro IMO Edited by Sardonicus on Friday 5th May 10:09
Simon (sardonicus) is right as usual, the air flow argument is total rubbish, I don't say this lightly and without offering proof... so here it is:
Firstly in my opinion the very best leads you can get are MSD Super Conductors, I've been running these on my LPG Chimaera for a number of years and they've been superb. For those who don't know LPG is notoriously hard on ignition components as it's harder to strike (initiate the burn), once it's lit LPG is a superb fuel that burns more completely and with way less carbon than petrol but it will cruelly expose any weaknesses in your ignition system.
What I'm saying is, if the MSD Super Conductor leads have proven themselves completely reliable on my LPG Chimaera you can rest assured they'll be hugely over specified for a car burning petrol. You can buy a universal set of these leads and make the ends up yourself which is easy, or their Small Block Chevy set will probably fit a distributor equipped Chimaera just fine.
https://www.msdperformance.com/products/spark_plug...
The plug extenders used by TVR are extremely unreliable and should be deleted, but you will need to find a solution to the heat problem. The plug ends on MSD Super Conductors are extremely heat resistant in themselves but I chose to sleeve the ends with MSD's Pro-Boot Guard for some additional protection.
https://www.msdperformance.com/products/spark_plug...
Over that I used DEI Titanium Spark Plug Boot Protectors which are the best socks you can get and designed to handle extreme heat extreme heat conditions up to 1200°F, I've used cheaper woven fiberglass versions in the past and they are definitely inferior to the DEI Titanium Spark Plug Boot Protectors.
https://www.deipowersports.com/products/boot-wire-...
In addition to eliminating heat related failures the benefit of using MSD's Pro-Boot Guard and the DEI Titanium Spark Plug Boot Protectors over the top is that heat induced electrical resistance is significantly reduced, meaning my ignition system doesn't have to work as hard and the full spark energy from my MSD coil packs is delivered to the iridium/platinum NGK LPG spark plugs which is essential when burning gas.
I'm sure the ACCEL Extreme 9000 Ceramic leads are fine but there have been reports they can get stuck fast on the plug ends and they don't offer the same level of thermal insulation as using MSD's Pro-Boot Guard, also if you spend some time to research it all the American HT lead reviews give first place to MSD Super Conductors and in the States they are universally regarded as the best you can get.
I've tested and destroyed lots of different lead sets including the expensive 8.5mm Magnecor KV85 reds which I literally blew up and I strongly recommend people avoid at all cost.
If my chosen combination has proved itself 100% reliable on my LPG Chimaera people should take this as reassurance it's the best you can get and will be way over specified for a car burning petrol.
Here's the recipe:
1. MSD Super Conductor leads
2. 6" of MSD's Pro-Boot Guard over each plug end
3. DEI Titanium Spark Plug Boot Protectors over that
It's not a cheap solution in the short term, but because it lasts you'll end up saving in the end.
More on my proven and LPG destruction tested setup here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=12...
Finally I've found I can remove a significant percentage of the manifold heat issue by first removing the catalytic converters and then using my Canems system to run significantly more ignition advance at idle, these two strategies combined deliver a massive reduction in manifold heat that virtually eliminates the problem at source. Running more ignition advance delivers a smoother idle, engine bay components get a much easier life and because I'm not essentially wasting fuel to super-heat the manifolds my fuel economy is improved especially during stop start urban driving.
Dave.
Firstly in my opinion the very best leads you can get are MSD Super Conductors, I've been running these on my LPG Chimaera for a number of years and they've been superb. For those who don't know LPG is notoriously hard on ignition components as it's harder to strike (initiate the burn), once it's lit LPG is a superb fuel that burns more completely and with way less carbon than petrol but it will cruelly expose any weaknesses in your ignition system.
What I'm saying is, if the MSD Super Conductor leads have proven themselves completely reliable on my LPG Chimaera you can rest assured they'll be hugely over specified for a car burning petrol. You can buy a universal set of these leads and make the ends up yourself which is easy, or their Small Block Chevy set will probably fit a distributor equipped Chimaera just fine.
https://www.msdperformance.com/products/spark_plug...
The plug extenders used by TVR are extremely unreliable and should be deleted, but you will need to find a solution to the heat problem. The plug ends on MSD Super Conductors are extremely heat resistant in themselves but I chose to sleeve the ends with MSD's Pro-Boot Guard for some additional protection.
https://www.msdperformance.com/products/spark_plug...
Over that I used DEI Titanium Spark Plug Boot Protectors which are the best socks you can get and designed to handle extreme heat extreme heat conditions up to 1200°F, I've used cheaper woven fiberglass versions in the past and they are definitely inferior to the DEI Titanium Spark Plug Boot Protectors.
https://www.deipowersports.com/products/boot-wire-...
In addition to eliminating heat related failures the benefit of using MSD's Pro-Boot Guard and the DEI Titanium Spark Plug Boot Protectors over the top is that heat induced electrical resistance is significantly reduced, meaning my ignition system doesn't have to work as hard and the full spark energy from my MSD coil packs is delivered to the iridium/platinum NGK LPG spark plugs which is essential when burning gas.
I'm sure the ACCEL Extreme 9000 Ceramic leads are fine but there have been reports they can get stuck fast on the plug ends and they don't offer the same level of thermal insulation as using MSD's Pro-Boot Guard, also if you spend some time to research it all the American HT lead reviews give first place to MSD Super Conductors and in the States they are universally regarded as the best you can get.
I've tested and destroyed lots of different lead sets including the expensive 8.5mm Magnecor KV85 reds which I literally blew up and I strongly recommend people avoid at all cost.
If my chosen combination has proved itself 100% reliable on my LPG Chimaera people should take this as reassurance it's the best you can get and will be way over specified for a car burning petrol.
Here's the recipe:
1. MSD Super Conductor leads
2. 6" of MSD's Pro-Boot Guard over each plug end
3. DEI Titanium Spark Plug Boot Protectors over that
It's not a cheap solution in the short term, but because it lasts you'll end up saving in the end.
More on my proven and LPG destruction tested setup here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=12...
Finally I've found I can remove a significant percentage of the manifold heat issue by first removing the catalytic converters and then using my Canems system to run significantly more ignition advance at idle, these two strategies combined deliver a massive reduction in manifold heat that virtually eliminates the problem at source. Running more ignition advance delivers a smoother idle, engine bay components get a much easier life and because I'm not essentially wasting fuel to super-heat the manifolds my fuel economy is improved especially during stop start urban driving.
Dave.
I use socks and they are very good, as long as you keep them suspended and not leaning on the manifold.... they don't work to well if they do!
I wouldn't double sock them simply because it reduces any air gap between them and said manifolds so there likely too touch and burn pretty quickly.
I've just had socks over the ends on my MBE installed leads and they are spot on. Almost two years now and plug caps are still like new.
The use of advance as Dave says on these aftermarket ECU is small genius in it's own way. It does exactly as Dave says and def keeps things a little cooler.
I wouldn't double sock them simply because it reduces any air gap between them and said manifolds so there likely too touch and burn pretty quickly.
I've just had socks over the ends on my MBE installed leads and they are spot on. Almost two years now and plug caps are still like new.
The use of advance as Dave says on these aftermarket ECU is small genius in it's own way. It does exactly as Dave says and def keeps things a little cooler.
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