Jaguar considered luxury by the public
Discussion
They made cars with supercharged V8 engines, big-bore v12 engines, luxury spec options such as long-wheelbase, picnic tables, individual rear seats, ridiculous lambswool rugs, coachlines. So, more or less RR/Bentley stuff, but somewhat watered down.
Then they wanted to be BMW and introduced a 5 and 3 series, and then they wanted to be something else.
Then they wanted to be BMW and introduced a 5 and 3 series, and then they wanted to be something else.
Mr Tidy said:
Does it though?
The motoring magazines got given E-Types with high-compression heads and triple carbs so they might get to 150 mph on a good day even though they had a claimed 265 bhp before modifications!
I bought a BMW 123d in 2008 that was supposed to do 152mph with "just" 201bhp.
And my BMW Z4 Coupes with 265 real bhp had a 155 mph limiter, so I have to wonder how Jaguar measured their horses!
Every early E-type had triple SU carburettors, and 9:1 pistons. Standard gearing gave 153mph, several options were available. Bhp in those days was measured using the Society of Automobile Engineers (SAE) method of a bare engine on a dynamometer.The motoring magazines got given E-Types with high-compression heads and triple carbs so they might get to 150 mph on a good day even though they had a claimed 265 bhp before modifications!
I bought a BMW 123d in 2008 that was supposed to do 152mph with "just" 201bhp.
And my BMW Z4 Coupes with 265 real bhp had a 155 mph limiter, so I have to wonder how Jaguar measured their horses!
Oyez! Oyez! 2020 BMW can match 1961 Jaguar performance. Oyez! Oyez!
John Locke said:
Oyez! Oyez! 2020 BMW can match 1961 Jaguar performance. Oyez! Oyez!
You nailed it, I think some on here need to think what they're comparing things with, to me it says how far Jaguar were advanced to sell a car with that level of performance for a lot less money than it's immediate competitors at the time and I haven't even mentioned it's fantastic looks. (cue someone coming on here saying the E-Type looks awful)We'll take Mr Tidy's comment as a Jaguar compliment.
craigjm said:
Mr Tidy said:
John Locke said:
Nobody nowhere said:
Not anymore. I see it as more “Matalan”, for reference, Vauxhall would be “Primark”
Bloody hell, that puts German diesels in the charity bag.The motoring magazines got given E-Types with high-compression heads and triple carbs so they might get to 150 mph on a good day even though they had a claimed 265 bhp before modifications!
I bought a BMW 123d in 2008 that was supposed to do 152mph with "just" 201bhp.
And my BMW Z4 Coupes with 265 real bhp had a 155 mph limiter, so I have to wonder how Jaguar measured their horses!
Was measured right? The 265bhp would have been a bare engine whereas a modern car is measured at the wheel.
Edited by craigjm on Thursday 11th June 01:38
I think near 60 years of aero, drive train and tyre development might go some way to explaining the discrepancy. Otherwise, shame on you Jag for not making your E-Type even faster than just about everything else around it at the time!
Gad-Westy said:
craigjm said:
Mr Tidy said:
John Locke said:
Nobody nowhere said:
Not anymore. I see it as more “Matalan”, for reference, Vauxhall would be “Primark”
Bloody hell, that puts German diesels in the charity bag.The motoring magazines got given E-Types with high-compression heads and triple carbs so they might get to 150 mph on a good day even though they had a claimed 265 bhp before modifications!
I bought a BMW 123d in 2008 that was supposed to do 152mph with "just" 201bhp.
And my BMW Z4 Coupes with 265 real bhp had a 155 mph limiter, so I have to wonder how Jaguar measured their horses!
Was measured right? The 265bhp would have been a bare engine whereas a modern car is measured at the wheel.
Edited by craigjm on Thursday 11th June 01:38
I think near 60 years of aero, drive train and tyre development might go some way to explaining the discrepancy. Otherwise, shame on you Jag for not making your E-Type even faster than just about everything else around it at the time!
Baldchap said:
20 years ago they really were a premium motor. My shed XJ is rotten, but still drives amazingly well.
Nowadays I can't see past the fact they're a badly built, unreliable Indian budget motor with a big price tag.
On the price tag remark this is partly the result of PCP which detracts from silly telephone number list prices. On this, and only slightly tangential , BMW have perfected the art of “Pile ‘em high, sell ‘em dear”. From the old mags, Jaguar “Grace,Space,Pace.” It was all true. Also Singer, long forgotten:”For the man in the know” Also true but few were prepared to pay for their quality.*Nowadays I can't see past the fact they're a badly built, unreliable Indian budget motor with a big price tag.
Edited by Lester H on Thursday 11th June 22:27
Raygun said:
You nailed it, I think some on here need to think what they're comparing things with, to me it says how far Jaguar were advanced to sell a car with that level of performance for a lot less money than it's immediate competitors at the time and I haven't even mentioned it's fantastic looks. (cue someone coming on here saying the E-Type looks awful)
We'll take Mr Tidy's comment as a Jaguar compliment.
I like the convertible, but the coupe looks very odd. We'll take Mr Tidy's comment as a Jaguar compliment.
Those of us fortunate enough to own 5.0L XKRs know the "old man moniker" is just stupid. And even though I'm an old man, I still take my 600hp XKR to the track where it's quicker and easier to manhandle around than my modified 500+ hp De Tomaso Pantera. The F-type is a hoot to drive and listen to, but a little claustrophobic compared to the more generously spaced XK/XKR. A popular topic of discussion on the X150 forum is what would replace your XKR if you had to do so. The DB9 clone of the XKR is a lovely car but doesn't perform as well, and in every direct comparison is never the car of choice by the reviewer. The V12 Vanquish is the most common answer, but at what price? You could buy 6 low mile XKR or XKRS for the price of a Vanquish and still outperform it while maintaining much of the same looks. Mine is going on approximately 175,000 miles now and still a pleasure to look at and drive. It would be wonderful to see Jaguar do another luxury 2+2 GT, it has always been their strongest entry in the market. But in this day and age of SUVs, it's highly doubtful it will happen. 
About 5 years ago I had a 2004 S-type, the 3.0 auto variant.
Not something I had ever considered as always thought them ugly compared to XJ/XK and other models, but the daily car I was running at the time went pop and I needed something to replace it sharpish. Friend of a friend had the S-type for sale, we had a quick chat and £1,400 later it was mine.
Good condition, 65K miles, FSH etc. Ended up using it for about 2 years / 40K miles as I was running up and down the M1 for work 2 or 3 times a week at that time.
Was amazing how many people thought it was something special - you must be getting paid well type-comments. They couldn't believe it cost less to buy outright than they were paying to lease their 1.6 litre standard econo-box for 6 months.
Gearbox went bang in the end, not worth repairing so weighed it in for £130 at the scrapper. Still one of the comfiest cars I've sat in on the motorway, seats like armchairs
Not something I had ever considered as always thought them ugly compared to XJ/XK and other models, but the daily car I was running at the time went pop and I needed something to replace it sharpish. Friend of a friend had the S-type for sale, we had a quick chat and £1,400 later it was mine.
Good condition, 65K miles, FSH etc. Ended up using it for about 2 years / 40K miles as I was running up and down the M1 for work 2 or 3 times a week at that time.
Was amazing how many people thought it was something special - you must be getting paid well type-comments. They couldn't believe it cost less to buy outright than they were paying to lease their 1.6 litre standard econo-box for 6 months.
Gearbox went bang in the end, not worth repairing so weighed it in for £130 at the scrapper. Still one of the comfiest cars I've sat in on the motorway, seats like armchairs
tberg said:
Those of us fortunate enough to own 5.0L XKRs know the "old man moniker" is just stupid. And even though I'm an old man, I still take my 600hp XKR to the track where it's quicker and easier to manhandle around than my modified 500+ hp De Tomaso Pantera. The F-type is a hoot to drive and listen to, but a little claustrophobic compared to the more generously spaced XK/XKR. A popular topic of discussion on the X150 forum is what would replace your XKR if you had to do so.
I know that jealously is a bad trait but I'll hold my hands up here. The Pantera was a bedroom wall poster car for me when I was a teenager and still love them.Any photos you can share?
DoubleD said:
tberg said:
the "old man moniker" is just stupid. And even though I'm an old man
This is why some think of Jaguar's as an old mans car, because old men drive them.The majority drove UK made cars and at that time, Jaguar was probably the most prestigious/expensive (excluding the likes of Aston, Bristol etc).
When you actually had to front up the money to buy a car rather than pay monthly, the only folks who could afford a Jaguar tended to be older blokes with a few quid behind them. Hence the still widely-held view that they are an older mans car.
OzzyR1 said:
DoubleD said:
tberg said:
the "old man moniker" is just stupid. And even though I'm an old man
This is why some think of Jaguar's as an old mans car, because old men drive them.The majority drove UK made cars and at that time, Jaguar was probably the most prestigious/expensive (excluding the likes of Aston, Bristol etc).
When you actually had to front up the money to buy a car rather than pay monthly, the only folks who could afford a Jaguar tended to be older blokes with a few quid behind them. Hence the still widely-held view that they are an older mans car.
ddom said:
Jaguar steve said:
And of course there's a need to arrive into more mature years to really appreciate what's good and what's not good and truly understand the enormous gulf of difference between what's new and what's best.
Only if you don't experience what's best.....
So go on then - whats best?
Raygun said:
We'll take Mr Tidy's comment as a Jaguar compliment.
Oh yes, it is. 
Ever since primary school I always thought the E-Type was stunning. And one of my class-mates got one of those red Corgi FHC models when they came out (his Mum worked in a toy-shop so he got all the new models)!
But I'd have to sell the house to buy a real one.
Mr Tidy said:
Oh yes, it is.
Ever since primary school I always thought the E-Type was stunning. And one of my class-mates got one of those red Corgi FHC models when they came out (his Mum worked in a toy-shop so he got all the new models)!
But I'd have to sell the house to buy a real one.
When I was mid-teens (late 80's), one of my mate's dad bought a shabby E-type roadster with the intention of doing it up so it was in mint condition.Ever since primary school I always thought the E-Type was stunning. And one of my class-mates got one of those red Corgi FHC models when they came out (his Mum worked in a toy-shop so he got all the new models)!
But I'd have to sell the house to buy a real one.
I remember him taking it to bits in his garage, and he did a through job - everything that could be undone, unbolted and unscrewed was - it was like a real life Haynes manual.
He then got busy at work and neglected it for a few months. When he looked again, he realised he had no real mechanical knowledge and even less idea about how he should put all the bits back together again.
It was taken away on various lorries, and he admitted it cost him over twice what the original purchase price was to get someone to put it all back together.
Recall he bought it for £12K, cost him around £25K for the people to rebuild/restore it and he sold it for around £30-35K to cut his losses.
Bet he wishes he had kept it now, 20:20 hindsight and all that.
Edited by OzzyR1 on Friday 12th June 00:45
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