Discussion
Jaguar built a reputation and business on luxurious cars of the model people bought for that kind of thing. In the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s that was saloons.
People don't buy big saloon cars anymore. If they want a comfortable cruiser for long distance driving they buy an SUV. Just look at the number of Audi Q models and BMW X models clogging up our motorways. Jaguar had to move into this market or find their potential client base shrinking and shrinking.
The "purists" won't like it, but there not enough of those to keep the business solvent. Adapt and survive. I'm surprised it's taken them so long to get this and the F-pace to market. They should have been doing these cars 10 years ago.
People don't buy big saloon cars anymore. If they want a comfortable cruiser for long distance driving they buy an SUV. Just look at the number of Audi Q models and BMW X models clogging up our motorways. Jaguar had to move into this market or find their potential client base shrinking and shrinking.
The "purists" won't like it, but there not enough of those to keep the business solvent. Adapt and survive. I'm surprised it's taken them so long to get this and the F-pace to market. They should have been doing these cars 10 years ago.
HorneyMX5 said:
Jaguar built a reputation and business on luxurious cars of the model people bought for that kind of thing. In the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s that was saloons.
People don't buy big saloon cars anymore. If they want a comfortable cruiser for long distance driving they buy an SUV. Just look at the number of Audi Q models and BMW X models clogging up our motorways. Jaguar had to move into this market or find their potential client base shrinking and shrinking.
The "purists" won't like it, but there not enough of those to keep the business solvent. Adapt and survive. I'm surprised it's taken them so long to get this and the F-pace to market. They should have been doing these cars 10 years ago.
I don't mind that so much but they could at least offer something that was still distinctive, high quality and luxurious instead of a cheaply finished copy of the German competition.People don't buy big saloon cars anymore. If they want a comfortable cruiser for long distance driving they buy an SUV. Just look at the number of Audi Q models and BMW X models clogging up our motorways. Jaguar had to move into this market or find their potential client base shrinking and shrinking.
The "purists" won't like it, but there not enough of those to keep the business solvent. Adapt and survive. I'm surprised it's taken them so long to get this and the F-pace to market. They should have been doing these cars 10 years ago.
Witness Lexus, happily ploughing their own furrow for years and reaping the profit margins from niche products with a very loyal client base and unrivaled quality and reliability. They're now making "interesting" looking cars that are at least distinctive.
I speak as an owner of a Jaguar XF Sportbrake and Lexus IS300h. I've previously owned an S-Type, another XF and driven the current Jag range extensively.
The Vambo said:
BlueHave said:
Not my sort of car i'd rather have an XJ but I can see them shifting these if the price point is under £30k.
£28,500, feckin heavy though. 1700kg for the top spec 4 pot 
I would love to know who thought it was a good idea calling the EV an I-pace and this an E-pace. Saw the I-pace at Goodwood, sat in the Velar opposite it and the other (non-car) people sitting in the Velar were adamant that the I-Pace we could see was an F-Pace no matter how much I tried to convince them otherwise. I suggested they walk around the stand to sit in the F-Pace which was just out of view. I think they walked off in the other direction.
Anyway, regarding brand dilution, what exactly do people think the future holds for a brand like Jaguar. In 3 to 5 years diesels will be consigned to history followed not long after by petrol becoming a specialist interest only.
Unless Jaguar evolve their vehicles and brand to suit hybrid and EV technology and products they will also be history. This appears to be what they are doing, They just need to sort out the rather confusing naming strategy.
Anyway, regarding brand dilution, what exactly do people think the future holds for a brand like Jaguar. In 3 to 5 years diesels will be consigned to history followed not long after by petrol becoming a specialist interest only.
Unless Jaguar evolve their vehicles and brand to suit hybrid and EV technology and products they will also be history. This appears to be what they are doing, They just need to sort out the rather confusing naming strategy.
Cold said:
Is 1700kgs heavy for a vehicle of this type?
Yes the lightest BMW sdrive18d is 1545, the most heavy is 1650kg.The way I read it Jaguar have subbed production to Magna steyr, the other problem is all the chassis and in majority body is steel (Boot, bonnet and wings are alu though).
Regarding the design it is just an SUV F Type and it seems look just wrong. Lazy design from Ian Callum. As much as I respect his previous designs, Jaguar are getting lazy.
I don't like it. For two reasons...
Firstly, it's hideous. It's bulbous and unattractive, an SUV to be attractive needs to be made more "sleek", to achieve this it needs to be long. The E-Pace is short and dumpy, it looks more like something from China with Jag badges slapped on with those proportions.
Secondly, the brand in my eyes is about luxurious and attractive saloons, and beautiful sports cars. C-Type, D-Type, E-Type, MkII, XJ series, XK, F-Type etc. I understand that the world has changed and that big saloons don't sell as well as they have in the past, Jaguar probably needs the F-Pace to help stay afloat but why ruin it by introducing another, smaller and uglier SUV. It reminds me of Rover, forgetting their core values (towards the end) and churning out cheap rubbish with the Rover badge (talking about the Streetwise) to "save" the brand, when in reality that was securing the final nail in their own coffin. I'd hate to see Jaguar go down the pan but equally I'd hate to see them loose their identity, it'll be a sad day when the Jaguar you see the most is some small hatchback/SUV thing.
Firstly, it's hideous. It's bulbous and unattractive, an SUV to be attractive needs to be made more "sleek", to achieve this it needs to be long. The E-Pace is short and dumpy, it looks more like something from China with Jag badges slapped on with those proportions.
Secondly, the brand in my eyes is about luxurious and attractive saloons, and beautiful sports cars. C-Type, D-Type, E-Type, MkII, XJ series, XK, F-Type etc. I understand that the world has changed and that big saloons don't sell as well as they have in the past, Jaguar probably needs the F-Pace to help stay afloat but why ruin it by introducing another, smaller and uglier SUV. It reminds me of Rover, forgetting their core values (towards the end) and churning out cheap rubbish with the Rover badge (talking about the Streetwise) to "save" the brand, when in reality that was securing the final nail in their own coffin. I'd hate to see Jaguar go down the pan but equally I'd hate to see them loose their identity, it'll be a sad day when the Jaguar you see the most is some small hatchback/SUV thing.
Muddle238 said:
, it'll be a sad day when the Jaguar you see the most is some small hatchback/SUV thing.
Then blame the general public for their buying preferences which have shifted to SUV's - the car range is still there (and has cost a HUGE amount to develop) but the market is shrinking year-on-year. If Jag just made them they would no doubt be spiralling down to closure, you have to keep up with the public and the competition to survive.Pintofbest said:
Then blame the general public for their buying preferences which have shifted to SUV's - the car range is still there (and has cost a HUGE amount to develop) but the market is shrinking year-on-year. If Jag just made them they would no doubt be spiralling down to closure, you have to keep up with the public and the competition to survive.
Yes, but they could do that while still keeping their core values, whereas Callum has thrown out the styling cues, interior ambience and quality while not really replacing it with anything distinctive.
It seems every new release by JLR is greeted with "they will sell loads of them/won't be able to keep up with demand" comments on here. I rarely see a JLR product while traveling in Europe, some LR stuff sure but next to no Jag stuff, of any age....
Is this another Rover waiting to happen? Good UK sales but non existent everywhere else?
Is this another Rover waiting to happen? Good UK sales but non existent everywhere else?
Edited by godskitchen on Friday 14th July 10:15
godskitchen said:
Is this another Rover waiting to happen? Good UK sales but non existent everywhere else?
Jaguar sales up 83% yoy, LR product 1% due to model run out and new Disco not having an effect yet. Expect Velar to really increase that though.Edited by godskitchen on Friday 14th July 10:15
http://media.jaguarlandrover.com/en-gb/news/2017/0...
Sales have gone from c360k cars in 2012 to 605k last financial year. You need to do some reading.
godskitchen said:
It seems every new release by JLR is greeted with "they will sell loads of them/won't be able to keep up with demand" comments on here. I rarely see a JLR product while traveling in Europe, some LR stuff sure but next to no Jag stuff, of any age....
Is this another Rover waiting to happen? Good UK sales but non existent everywhere else?
Quick answer yes, but unfortunately many people cannot see beyond the short term.Is this another Rover waiting to happen? Good UK sales but non existent everywhere else?
Edited by godskitchen on Friday 14th July 10:15
Sales are going up because they have a bigger range. So they bloody well should be. But you have to consider the long term sustainability, profit, market trends, brand equity etc.
Witness the massive number of XE's being dumped into the nearly new market - pre-registered cars that couldn't be sold new. Makes the sales figures look good but how much profit was made on them and how popular was the model with buyers in reality?
This is exactly what Rover were doing in the late 90's and given what we now know was going on when they were being praised for being in profit and delivering massive expansion in the early 90's, one should be cautious about JLR at this early stage.
Edited by hackjo on Friday 14th July 11:59
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