RE: Diesel Jag tankful lasts 1k miles
Discussion
cathalm said:
Another example, the 350z engine doesnt get used as a critical tool because it came from renault...
Not that this point had much to do with your argument, but none the less, it's still wrong. The VQ35 engine is all Nissan, a development of earlier Nissan engine designs. Renault had nothing to do with any part of its design. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_V
cdp said:
So how did they get 53mpg out of it?
Something smells.
No doubt by driving on cruise control at 60mph and avoiding traffic jams and urban areas.
would keeping a fixed throttle, letting the car speed up downhill or slow down uphill, be better than keeping a fixed speed (accelerating up hills and backing off downhill, as cruise control would do)?
I've found on my father's (old model) XJ8 that the cruise control consistently beats my right foot when it comes to fuel consumption. Even when I'm taking care. I can get into the low thirties which is pretty good for such a heavy car but I normally reckon on 28mpg. This is in west Norfolk and Suffolk where the roads are long, wide, straight and often pretty empty.
To put it simply it's well worth paying for cruise control as you save the cost in the long term.
My previous, and current car both had cruise control, best thing since sliced bread, especially on long drives. Improves MPG, and on the Aberdeen to Dundee road which is festooned with cameras, makes driving a doddle knowing you cant get zapped for exceeding set speed limit. Those of you who havnt tried it, dont knock it until you have, drove from Aberdeen to London last year in a day, couldnt dream of doing that on manual foot control all the way.
Truckosaurus said:
So how did they get 53mpg out of it?
Something smells.
No doubt by driving on cruise control at 60mph and avoiding traffic jams and urban areas.
Lets just give them credit where its due,all the above would be virtually impossible on the journey stated,after all its Bliars Britain were talking about.I got an indicated 53.3 mpg on a 356 mile journey from Essex to the Scottish Borders with a VERY full Volvo V70 2.5 diesel,so it is possible.My regular showing is 47.7 mpg (according to the trip computer,Im not THAT sad!!)...so on that run,and I sat between 75-80 mph on motorways and A-roads all the way,it is a real possibility,considering the tractor engine in my Volvo is a long way behind the new-technology diesels
vipers said:
So how did they get 53mpg out of it?
Something smells.
No doubt by driving on cruise control at 60mph and avoiding traffic jams and urban areas.
would keeping a fixed throttle, letting the car speed up downhill or slow down uphill, be better than keeping a fixed speed (accelerating up hills and backing off downhill, as cruise control would do)?
I've found on my father's (old model) XJ8 that the cruise control consistently beats my right foot when it comes to fuel consumption. Even when I'm taking care. I can get into the low thirties which is pretty good for such a heavy car but I normally reckon on 28mpg. This is in west Norfolk and Suffolk where the roads are long, wide, straight and often pretty empty.
To put it simply it's well worth paying for cruise control as you save the cost in the long term.
My previous, and current car both had cruise control, best thing since sliced bread, especially on long drives. Improves MPG, and on the Aberdeen to Dundee road which is festooned with cameras, makes driving a doddle knowing you cant get zapped for exceeding set speed limit. Those of you who havnt tried it, dont knock it until you have, drove from Aberdeen to London last year in a day, couldnt dream of doing that on manual foot control all the way.
I had cruise control fitted to my X300 when I bought it, but I often find the roads are to busy to use it that much. The adaptive cruise on the newer cars should be much more usable. The misses Merc has a very useful feature on it's cruise, you can use it as speed limiter, that way you just leave your foot on the throttle and it acts like cruise control, but as get to traffic you just back off. Acts as a great license minder :-). Kick down turns it off so if you need to accelerate thats easy too. I would have liked to see this feature on the newer Jags... perhaps one day.
NAPiston said:
Another example, the 350z engine doesnt get used as a critical tool because it came from renault...
Not that this point had much to do with your argument, but none the less, it's still wrong. The VQ35 engine is all Nissan, a development of earlier Nissan engine designs. Renault had nothing to do with any part of its design. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_V
Probably ought to re read what I said, unless i was being typically inept in how I said it! I was saying that its ridiculous when people say these things, such as the nissan engine thing, simply because of who owns the company.In this case you dont hear it said so much as you do about British brands, which was my point, but Im sad to say I have heard it said. So essentially, you are agreeing? Its also entirely relavent to what i was saying by the way... It is the fact of the modern car industry that there are a few big multinationals which are going to own everything. None of them is british as the other fella said but that doesnt make it ok to unfairly knock what we have and ONLY support the cottage car industry here. I for one think Jags are the business, and so are Astons, I'm just fed of hearing them put down for irrelevancies of where head office of the parent company is, when these facts are largely ignored when talking about foreign brands. We have a natural propensity to knock the home grown product/service in this country. Its the same tedious people you meet in the pub who say " i hate this country", well sod off somewhere else then and let the rest of us get on with being proud!
The official fuel consumption figures are based on defined drive cycles. For this attempt, I believe the boys from jag ran the vehicle on dynos before hand to find the most efficient cruising speed, which they then tried to stick to where conditions allowed. This speed was therefore more taylored to the actual vehicle, rather than the ones laid down for "official" consumption tests.
They also employed known fuel saving techniques to further improve economy, which may not be practical in real world driving.
Still an interesting exercise though, whether you like diesels or not it's a good news car story in a world of environmental sniping.
I have to say the first time I heard a prototype XJ diesel perform a cold start, it was quite upsetting. A Jaguar shouldn't really sound like tractor. However that was an old diesel prototype of a completely different family to the V6 that made it to production, so things aren't so bad, and looking at the world of high fuel prices and competition from European makes with diesel offerings it is the right thing to do.
They also employed known fuel saving techniques to further improve economy, which may not be practical in real world driving.
Still an interesting exercise though, whether you like diesels or not it's a good news car story in a world of environmental sniping.
I have to say the first time I heard a prototype XJ diesel perform a cold start, it was quite upsetting. A Jaguar shouldn't really sound like tractor. However that was an old diesel prototype of a completely different family to the V6 that made it to production, so things aren't so bad, and looking at the world of high fuel prices and competition from European makes with diesel offerings it is the right thing to do.
vipers said:
My previous, and current car both had cruise control, best thing since sliced bread, especially on long drives. Improves MPG, and on the Aberdeen to Dundee road which is festooned with cameras, makes driving a doddle knowing you cant get zapped for exceeding set speed limit. Those of you who havnt tried it, dont knock it until you have, drove from Aberdeen to London last year in a day, couldnt dream of doing that on manual foot control all the way.
Don't you find that you just switch off though and pay less attention to your driving because you don't have to worry about getting caught, hence it's 'a doddle' because it requires less concentration? I can't imagine driving on Cruise - I don't like the feeling of being out of control!
RSTurboPaul said:
Don't you find that you just switch off though and pay less attention to your driving because you don't have to worry about getting caught, hence it's 'a doddle' because it requires less concentration?
I don't find that, I just don't need to look at the speedo so often, you still concentrate on everything that is goin on around you
RSTurboPaul said:
I can't imagine driving on Cruise - I don't like the feeling of being out of control!
The first time I used Cruise, I felt like that but it doesn't take long before you realise that you still are in full control. The breaks still work (they turn off cruise in every car I've tried), the accelerator still works. I don't find it takes me longer to get my foot onto the brake peddle from the floor than from the throttle, but I'd accept that accelerating suddenly takes longer.
Having read all the above comments, two things come clear, firstly we hate the fact something positive is said about a car manufactured in the UK.Why ? if it was German we had be shouting about it form the hill tops. And the other old chestnut when is a Jag not a Jag of course when its a Mondeo,"rolluck"
I had a 3.0 X-type for 3 1/2 years never had a problem with it, don't remember Ford building a 4wheel drive Mondeo.
I had a 3.0 X-type for 3 1/2 years never had a problem with it, don't remember Ford building a 4wheel drive Mondeo.
marcusrx said:
If thats the case why are the motoring press under the impression that its fundametally a PSA engine, built in a joint "you design it cos your good at that and we will build cos we have lots of money and production capacity" type deal between PSA & Ford in the same way that Ford aquired its TDCI technology from PSA?
p.s great engine by the way regardless of who did what to which bit !
Because the press are consummate bullshit artists!
The cylinder block, heads, rods, pistons, crank, inlet and exhaust manifolds, valvetrain, cooling system..... infact pretty much everything was designed, analysed and developed at Dunton. Even the bought in systems like the turbos and fuel injection system had to integrated and setup at Dunton (by my colleague who posted earlier). The vehicle customers had their part but it basically consisted of make it fit these cars and make it pass some of these tests!
Autocar even had the gall to give all the credit to PSA for the new V8 diesel that I and MANY of my colleagues worked on. (Article here)
PSA did completely design some of the I4s we share, and great they are too, but I think we deserve a bit of pride in whats been achieved.
>> Edited by wheeljack888 on Friday 21st April 21:20
Well, after years of German BMW's I finally realised my lustings for a Jag, and 2 weeks ago bought a 1995 X300 model Daimler Double Six, with the 6 litre V12.
It's a magnificent car and shames the gruff common-or-garden BM's. The cars styling is easily the most gracefully attractive shape for a modern big saloon, and I don't think anyone will be able to surpass the X300's styling as it's perfect in every way.
Yes, there's a bit less headroom than the BM's, the autobox is only the 4-speeder, compared to the German 5-speeders, and fuel consumption is grim around town.
But you know what? I don't care in the slightest. I was in automotive love with the car as soon as I test drove it, and it makes me feel good to think that this country produced such a magnificent car that looks so good and makes you feel so good whilst driving it.
Every drive is an event, and not just a drive. It's on a limited mileage classic insurance so I can't use it for work every day, but it's so good to be in that I may bite the bullet and use it for work, 18 mpg or not
The creamy thrust of the V12 is addictive in the extreme, and I find the whole experience calming to the soul in a way the German cars weren't. In the BM's I always felt like I was going out to war as a foot soldier for a right good scrap on the roads, whereas when driving the Daimler I'm happy to just waft along on the tidal wave of torque and let the world rush by...
As for it being an old man's car, well I'm 37, and realised what I'd been missing all along-effortless superiority. In the BM's you'd be trying so hard to outdo others and spend much effort trying to be absolutely perfect-Ve Vill not tolerate Ze defects, Ja?
It's why the Germans, however Uberperfect their cars may be, will always build technologically superior but cold cars, whereas the Jaguars and Aston Martins, whilst having a few imperfections, will always be charming cars that make you feel good and warm, rather than cold, aloof and maybe even aggressive behind the wheel.
The problem with the new XJ is as many have said, that it lives in the shadow of the graceful X300 shape. How do you replace a styling icon? The X300 scores 11 out of 10 on styling, so how do you better that?
I'm just grateful that such cars have existed, and I for one shall be conducting my Daimler/Jaguar through the city streets this Sunday 23rd, St Georges Day, to bask in the knowledge that Britain, when it goes out on a limb of inspiration, still delivers the goods, however much the critics decry this country.
On the subject of the recent XJ TDi economy run, I can belive 53mpg from the 2.7 litre V6, because Jeremy Clarkson pounded a similar route in an Audi A8 with a 4 litre diesel V8, and got 40mpg. I could get a genuine 30mpg over a 500 run mile from my old BMW 540i with a 4 litre V8 petrol engine. The trick was to avoid really high cruising speeds, and to conserve momentum by planning arrivals at junctions/traffic lights etc.
One other trick I use in autos is to downshift the autobox manually whilst coming off the throttle. The fuel-shutoff-on-the-overrun facility comes into play here and boosts economy noticeably when going downhill or coming up to junctions.
I manually downshift the Daimler V12, which helps the economy, and have seen nearly 20mpg, which I think is quite good from a 2-ton 6 litre V12 engined car.
Jaguar's excellent J-gate 'Randle Handle' autobox selector is a real pleasure to use as well, elbow resting on the centre armrest, shift up the box with light flick of the wrist and surge forward effortlessly on the V12's torque.
It's all so damnably civilised-yes, that's what it's all about, and that's what's been lacking so far in my other cars, and everything now seems complete with the Daimler
Alex
It's a magnificent car and shames the gruff common-or-garden BM's. The cars styling is easily the most gracefully attractive shape for a modern big saloon, and I don't think anyone will be able to surpass the X300's styling as it's perfect in every way.
Yes, there's a bit less headroom than the BM's, the autobox is only the 4-speeder, compared to the German 5-speeders, and fuel consumption is grim around town.
But you know what? I don't care in the slightest. I was in automotive love with the car as soon as I test drove it, and it makes me feel good to think that this country produced such a magnificent car that looks so good and makes you feel so good whilst driving it.
Every drive is an event, and not just a drive. It's on a limited mileage classic insurance so I can't use it for work every day, but it's so good to be in that I may bite the bullet and use it for work, 18 mpg or not
The creamy thrust of the V12 is addictive in the extreme, and I find the whole experience calming to the soul in a way the German cars weren't. In the BM's I always felt like I was going out to war as a foot soldier for a right good scrap on the roads, whereas when driving the Daimler I'm happy to just waft along on the tidal wave of torque and let the world rush by...
As for it being an old man's car, well I'm 37, and realised what I'd been missing all along-effortless superiority. In the BM's you'd be trying so hard to outdo others and spend much effort trying to be absolutely perfect-Ve Vill not tolerate Ze defects, Ja?
It's why the Germans, however Uberperfect their cars may be, will always build technologically superior but cold cars, whereas the Jaguars and Aston Martins, whilst having a few imperfections, will always be charming cars that make you feel good and warm, rather than cold, aloof and maybe even aggressive behind the wheel.
The problem with the new XJ is as many have said, that it lives in the shadow of the graceful X300 shape. How do you replace a styling icon? The X300 scores 11 out of 10 on styling, so how do you better that?
I'm just grateful that such cars have existed, and I for one shall be conducting my Daimler/Jaguar through the city streets this Sunday 23rd, St Georges Day, to bask in the knowledge that Britain, when it goes out on a limb of inspiration, still delivers the goods, however much the critics decry this country.
On the subject of the recent XJ TDi economy run, I can belive 53mpg from the 2.7 litre V6, because Jeremy Clarkson pounded a similar route in an Audi A8 with a 4 litre diesel V8, and got 40mpg. I could get a genuine 30mpg over a 500 run mile from my old BMW 540i with a 4 litre V8 petrol engine. The trick was to avoid really high cruising speeds, and to conserve momentum by planning arrivals at junctions/traffic lights etc.
One other trick I use in autos is to downshift the autobox manually whilst coming off the throttle. The fuel-shutoff-on-the-overrun facility comes into play here and boosts economy noticeably when going downhill or coming up to junctions.
I manually downshift the Daimler V12, which helps the economy, and have seen nearly 20mpg, which I think is quite good from a 2-ton 6 litre V12 engined car.
Jaguar's excellent J-gate 'Randle Handle' autobox selector is a real pleasure to use as well, elbow resting on the centre armrest, shift up the box with light flick of the wrist and surge forward effortlessly on the V12's torque.
It's all so damnably civilised-yes, that's what it's all about, and that's what's been lacking so far in my other cars, and everything now seems complete with the Daimler
Alex
targarama said:
"The XJ TDVi Diesel boasts an average fuel consumption figure of 35mpg (8.1l/100km) combined cycle, 26.0mpg (10.8l/100km) Urban and 43.7mpg (6.5l/100km) Extra Urban and produces just 214g/km CO2,"
So how did they get 53mpg out of it?
Something smells.
The economy driving specialists always manage to achieve remarkable figures. On economy run competitions they get figures into the 60's, 70' 80's mpg and higher. Its not by coasting in nuetral either, that's not allowed. Its by bloody good driving really, summat I certainly can't do. (And not too interested in either, tbh).
RedOctober said:
As for it being an old man's car, well I'm 37, and realised what I'd been missing all along-effortless superiority. In the BM's you'd be trying so hard to outdo others and spend much effort trying to be absolutely perfect-Ve Vill not tolerate Ze defects, Ja?
It's why the Germans, however Uberperfect their cars may be, will always build technologically superior but cold cars, whereas the Jaguars and Aston Martins, whilst having a few imperfections, will always be charming cars that make you feel good and warm, rather than cold, aloof and maybe even aggressive behind the wheel.
They might aim for "Uberperfect" but in my experience thats not what you get.
The other halfs Merc has been back to the garage so many times I can't remember the last time I had to wash it. My 94 X300, a very early one, has been great. Even if it's a bitch to keep clean
RedOctober said:
The problem with the new XJ is as many have said, that it lives in the shadow of the graceful X300 shape. How do you replace a styling icon? The X300 scores 11 out of 10 on styling, so how do you better that?
RedOctober said:
It's all so damnably civilised-yes, that's what it's all about, and that's what's been lacking so far in my other cars, and everything now seems complete with the Daimler
Alex
Sounds like you're enjoying it...
BTW 37 is quite old to start Jag ownership, I was 33, there are many others here a lot younger.
I would have liked a V8 XJR, but the post Nikasil 2001 cars were a bit out of my price range, so I settled for the V12. I know it's a dinosaur of an engine, but I always said I'd have to have a V12 before I shuffle off this mortal coil
Oh yes, I'm really enjoying it, and I as for being a bitch to clean, I look forward to washing those graceful flanks, and it's so low compared to my 'tower block' BMW 5-series that I can lean right over the roof with ease when brandishing the soapy sponge. Keeps you fit as well, and beats the hell out of going down to the gym and running on a treadmill
26-year olds with XJR's? What is the world coming to My insurers would have a hairy fit at the thought of a Jag XJR parked on a driveway in suburban Merseyside-here be Scallies etc. When I was 27 I had a BMW 635CSi in metallic black with black leather seats-it was in group 9 insurance under the old insurance system as well, so I slummed it with 3rd Party Fire & Theft and toe rags used to steal the badges from the bonnet & boot.
I nearly had my BMW 540i stolen from the driveway a few weeks ago but they failed to break the locks and fortunately only caused very minor cosmetic damage to the lock barrels etc. Then I found a 6 inch long scratch on my estate, so you can imagine the fun the Low Life's would have with a Jag XJR.
The Daimler now resides in the driveway which has been turned into Fort Knox, security-wise, and I immobilise it by pulling out the fuel pump relay at night, and parking my similarly immobilsed/alarmed BMW 540i across the driveway with it's fuel pump fuse removed.
I would like a V8 XJR in a couple of years, when the post 2001 models drop into my price bracket, but right now I'm more than happy with the velvety smooth V12-I spent all afternoon pulling out all the spark plugs and ignition components for a right good cleaning session. Refit them tommorrow and check the alignment and synchonisation of those twin throttle linkages
Must also give it a good wash and polish for St Georges Day tommorrow and load a bit of Pomp & Circumstance into the CD. There's so much bright chrome on it that by the time it's all polished and the mirror alloys are all shiny, you have to wear sunglasses to avoid being dazzled...
I like to look at the engine as well, as it's so huge. I don't like looking at the fuel gauge though, unless the engine's switched off
Still, no gain withour pain...
I practice economy driving, and it's really all about anticipation and avoiding having to scrub off speed that you've just used petrol to build up. This means reading the road quite far ahead.
I don't drive like a nun, as the 3 points on my licence will bear witness to, and like to 'make progress' like anyone else-just kidding officer...
Oh yes, I'm really enjoying it, and I as for being a bitch to clean, I look forward to washing those graceful flanks, and it's so low compared to my 'tower block' BMW 5-series that I can lean right over the roof with ease when brandishing the soapy sponge. Keeps you fit as well, and beats the hell out of going down to the gym and running on a treadmill
26-year olds with XJR's? What is the world coming to
My insurers would have a hairy fit at the thought of a Jag XJR parked on a driveway in suburban Merseyside-here be Scallies etc. When I was 27 I had a BMW 635CSi in metallic black with black leather seats-it was in group 9 insurance under the old insurance system as well, so I slummed it with 3rd Party Fire & Theft and toe rags used to steal the badges from the bonnet & boot. I nearly had my BMW 540i stolen from the driveway a few weeks ago but they failed to break the locks and fortunately only caused very minor cosmetic damage to the lock barrels etc. Then I found a 6 inch long scratch on my estate, so you can imagine the fun the Low Life's would have with a Jag XJR.
The Daimler now resides in the driveway which has been turned into Fort Knox, security-wise, and I immobilise it by pulling out the fuel pump relay at night, and parking my similarly immobilsed/alarmed BMW 540i across the driveway with it's fuel pump fuse removed.
I would like a V8 XJR in a couple of years, when the post 2001 models drop into my price bracket, but right now I'm more than happy with the velvety smooth V12-I spent all afternoon pulling out all the spark plugs and ignition components for a right good cleaning session. Refit them tommorrow and check the alignment and synchonisation of those twin throttle linkages
Must also give it a good wash and polish for St Georges Day tommorrow and load a bit of Pomp & Circumstance into the CD. There's so much bright chrome on it that by the time it's all polished and the mirror alloys are all shiny, you have to wear sunglasses to avoid being dazzled...
I like to look at the engine as well, as it's so huge. I don't like looking at the fuel gauge though, unless the engine's switched off
Still, no gain withour pain...
I practice economy driving, and it's really all about anticipation and avoiding having to scrub off speed that you've just used petrol to build up. This means reading the road quite far ahead.
I don't drive like a nun, as the 3 points on my licence will bear witness to, and like to 'make progress' like anyone else-just kidding officer...
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