RE: Jaguar goes Indian?
Discussion
IAINSMITH said:
I love the new XKR, would really love to buy one, but i wouldn't stick my neck out now, whilst the car i might buy in a couple of months would be fine what about the re-sale in 3 years time?
Would the "de-valuation" of Jaguar affect it like TVR?
I've worked in India and trust me, whilst TATA may build cars the City Rover proved they are not upto much, even after Rover "re-worked" them.
If TATA buy Jaguar then sales will fall off a cliff! They need someone with vision to take them forward like Dave Richards will do with AM. Who actually puts up the money is *almost* irrelivant.
Sorry but TATA are just not upto premium brands in my opinion, certainly not to the sales level Jaguar need!
It would be sad day if TATA buys Jaguar!
I agree with this statement, TATA maybe a big multinational company, that has a turn over of God knows how many billions, but its track record of manufacturing cars is uninpressive (the sub-standard indica for one), and ultimately thats wot most of the car buying publc will judge them by, their previous efforts. TATA have been chasing volume sales,in their own country and dont seem to have any experiance with the Premium segment, which jaguar is (supposedly)competing in. Heck TATAs offerings arnt even competing with the usual high volume manufacturers (ford, vauxhall, honda,hyundai et al).Would the "de-valuation" of Jaguar affect it like TVR?
I've worked in India and trust me, whilst TATA may build cars the City Rover proved they are not upto much, even after Rover "re-worked" them.
If TATA buy Jaguar then sales will fall off a cliff! They need someone with vision to take them forward like Dave Richards will do with AM. Who actually puts up the money is *almost* irrelivant.
Sorry but TATA are just not upto premium brands in my opinion, certainly not to the sales level Jaguar need!
It would be sad day if TATA buys Jaguar!
TATA must prove it self worthy of producing cars that can give the mainstream manufactures a run for their money , before it can even think about acquiring and making Jaguars which have to take on the likes of BMW in the premium sector.
Whereas Dave richards track record is impressive, prodrives victories and achievements speak for them selves, and his acquirement of Aston Martin was welcomed, we all had the sense that AM was in safe hands, which unfortunately the same cannot be said for TATA
Edited by MidnightDriver on Sunday 22 July 00:42
Horse_Apple said:
I wouldn't rush to compare Tata to a curry house, or other such Forsythian thoughts.
India is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, it certainly has the fastes growing middle class.
Indians are very pro- British products and Jaguar would be seen as a great status symbol.
Tata have more money than Ford and understand the English far better than Ford.
Can't see anything wrong with this, to be honest.
Well said - I agreeIndia is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, it certainly has the fastes growing middle class.
Indians are very pro- British products and Jaguar would be seen as a great status symbol.
Tata have more money than Ford and understand the English far better than Ford.
Can't see anything wrong with this, to be honest.
The fact that Lotus is owned by Proton has not stopped people buying Elises. Whilst I find the situation with Jaguar and Land Rover incredibly sad, Jaguar in particular now needs massive investment and fast. Tata at least has the money. Ford does not, nor does it appear to have any idea as to how to revive Jaguar.
Are venture capitalists likely to be able to fund Jaguar whilst recovery takes place? I am not so sure.
I also cannot think of any other car companies likely to be interested in Jaguar. Renault/Nissan need a flagship brand, but their record of large cars is not exactly great.
It is all very depressing.
Are venture capitalists likely to be able to fund Jaguar whilst recovery takes place? I am not so sure.
I also cannot think of any other car companies likely to be interested in Jaguar. Renault/Nissan need a flagship brand, but their record of large cars is not exactly great.
It is all very depressing.
JulesV said:
The fact that Lotus is owned by Proton has not stopped people buying Elises.
Surely this is because Proton has largely respected Lotus as both a brand and in its engineering expertise and left it to look after itself. It has also learned lessons in matching product and image to market (hence why Proton coupe became Lotus Europa). I personally can't see Tata buying LR and not messing about with it, since these companies charge head on in the marketplace (even if not in image or product sophistication). I also see no reason why Tata wouldn't shift Jaguar production out to India (since this is exactly what SAIC did with Rover...sorry, "Roewe"...with the 75).
JJ
jazzyjeff said:
JulesV said:
The fact that Lotus is owned by Proton has not stopped people buying Elises.
Surely this is because Proton has largely respected Lotus as both a brand and in its engineering expertise and left it to look after itself. It has also learned lessons in matching product and image to market (hence why Proton coupe became Lotus Europa). I personally can't see Tata buying LR and not messing about with it, since these companies charge head on in the marketplace (even if not in image or product sophistication). I also see no reason why Tata wouldn't shift Jaguar production out to India (since this is exactly what SAIC did with Rover...sorry, "Roewe"...with the 75).
JJ
But it surely cannot survive in its current form, and no doubt everyone said similar things when Proton acquired Lotus. After all Proton is hardly the most inspiring car manufacturer and yet Lotus has continued to produce fantastic cars.
Jaguars main need is the funding for new models. The S Type replacement looks great, but the XJ urgently needs a re-skin and a new F Type is needed. This will cost money and Tata has it, Ford doesn't.
jazzyjeff said:
JulesV said:
The fact that Lotus is owned by Proton has not stopped people buying Elises.
Surely this is because Proton has largely respected Lotus as both a brand and in its engineering expertise and left it to look after itself. It has also learned lessons in matching product and image to market (hence why Proton coupe became Lotus Europa). I personally can't see Tata buying LR and not messing about with it, since these companies charge head on in the marketplace (even if not in image or product sophistication). I also see no reason why Tata wouldn't shift Jaguar production out to India (since this is exactly what SAIC did with Rover...sorry, "Roewe"...with the 75).
JJ
Unfortunately there is nothin to stop TATA having their way with Jaguar, if TATA acquire Jag are free to do pretty much wot they like.
btom said:
Horse_Apple said:
What amuses me is that the people who work in the Indian call centres are better educated that the fools who rant about them and almost certainly have a better command of the Queen's English.
I almost hope Tata do buy Jag just to spite some of you pointless little lickspittles and your backward little pea brains.
You're on a loser here HA. I mean, even though we raised the Indians from baseless poverty and gave them cricket, railways, the English language and Victorian pornography they've been unable to raise themselves to anywhere near 21st century standards of education or business. Its not Indians who manage 50% of Silicon Valley startups is it, nor, would you be in need a focused, educated and hard working engineer in any one of a number of leading edge technologies, would you ever consider an Indian. The idea would be laughable. I almost hope Tata do buy Jag just to spite some of you pointless little lickspittles and your backward little pea brains.
Besides, my mate in the pub says Tata is actually one of those Mooslem terrorist front companys. He saw a film about it. It was good.
I started writing a response and then it dawned on me that I was missing the joke. Sorry, a little slow this morning.
The real irony is that the global premium market is growing, the proft is were the money is, BMW are doing very well because, europe the USA is getting richer therefore more people can afford upmarket cars, the 3 series is a bigger seller in this country not because everyone woke up one morning an thought i want a BMW/Audi etc people have always been like that, it's because an increasing number are waking up in the morning an can afford one, an that number is growing, fast forward a few decades an i can see premium marques selling in as big a volumes as today's mainstream perhaps even greater in some markets, an ironically the biggest markets for mainstream marques would probably then be the china's an india's who will have moved into mainstream car use but not yet be suffciently wealthy were everyone drives a BMW
Now is not the time to be getting rid of a premium brand, there not easy to come by an to start one from scratch is not easy, for ford to even be thinking about spinning off there whole premium group when this is the fastest an most profitable sector to be operating in smacks of huge desperation, it's not even like the losses are that big, certainly in comparison to what ford USA loose, ford are going bankrupt make no mistake, once the disposals are done there'l be left with ford of europe, an ford of USA which will probably use all the sale procceeds in one year of losses, an then the die will be cast an ford will i expect go for chapter 11, shame really, i guess the really sad joke is it's not jaguar, aston, volvo etc that ford really need to be rid of, but ford USA
Now is not the time to be getting rid of a premium brand, there not easy to come by an to start one from scratch is not easy, for ford to even be thinking about spinning off there whole premium group when this is the fastest an most profitable sector to be operating in smacks of huge desperation, it's not even like the losses are that big, certainly in comparison to what ford USA loose, ford are going bankrupt make no mistake, once the disposals are done there'l be left with ford of europe, an ford of USA which will probably use all the sale procceeds in one year of losses, an then the die will be cast an ford will i expect go for chapter 11, shame really, i guess the really sad joke is it's not jaguar, aston, volvo etc that ford really need to be rid of, but ford USA
Aditya said:
@ btom - India's population is massive. Rural India is well and truly rural - no electricity, no water, etc. Not many people in rural India are educated. Family planning is an alien concept to those guys. As a result, the reproduction rate is very high. Since the parents are not earning well, they can't afford to send their kids to school. Hence, most of the children remain uneducated. Many of these uneducated children leave their villages and head to big cities like Bombay (now Mumbai), Delhi, etc. in search of employment. Most of them don't get any job. They are forced to sleep on the pavements and add to the slum-dwelling population of the city. I believe Bombay has Asia's biggest slum, Dharavi - Prince Charles visited it a couple of years ago. This should explain why we are still underdeveloped, uneducated, etc.
Someone mentioned the high corruption level in India. Here's your answer. Most of the taxes we pay, are supposed to be used as funds to develop rural areas. Sadly, this money goes into the pockets of politicians and others working in Government organisations handling the development projects. Pathetic!
The Tata group of companies is not a terrorist organisation or linked to any terrorist organisation.
Good post & welcome ! Someone mentioned the high corruption level in India. Here's your answer. Most of the taxes we pay, are supposed to be used as funds to develop rural areas. Sadly, this money goes into the pockets of politicians and others working in Government organisations handling the development projects. Pathetic!
The Tata group of companies is not a terrorist organisation or linked to any terrorist organisation.
Edited by Aditya on Friday 20th July 18:25
This contribution seems to have largely been ignored by all the ranters concerned with racism & "PC".So Aditya- can you educate us please on what the quality of car building IS really like in India ? -and how is that quality perceived by the population at large?
I suspect that this is less relevant to the thread now as it seems unlikely that TATA will be a buyer anyway but nice to have an authoritative answer.
peter450 said:
The real irony is that the global premium market is growing, the proft is were the money is, BMW are doing very well because, europe the USA is getting richer therefore more people can afford upmarket cars, the 3 series is a bigger seller in this country not because everyone woke up one morning an thought i want a BMW/Audi etc people have always been like that, it's because an increasing number are waking up in the morning an can afford one, an that number is growing, fast forward a few decades an i can see premium marques selling in as big a volumes as today's mainstream perhaps even greater in some markets, an ironically the biggest markets for mainstream marques would probably then be the china's an india's who will have moved into mainstream car use but not yet be suffciently wealthy were everyone drives a BMW
Now is not the time to be getting rid of a premium brand, there not easy to come by an to start one from scratch is not easy, for ford to even be thinking about spinning off there whole premium group when this is the fastest an most profitable sector to be operating in smacks of huge desperation, it's not even like the losses are that big, certainly in comparison to what ford USA loose, ford are going bankrupt make no mistake, once the disposals are done there'l be left with ford of europe, an ford of USA which will probably use all the sale procceeds in one year of losses, an then the die will be cast an ford will i expect go for chapter 11, shame really, i guess the really sad joke is it's not jaguar, aston, volvo etc that ford really need to be rid of, but ford USA
Very good point.Now is not the time to be getting rid of a premium brand, there not easy to come by an to start one from scratch is not easy, for ford to even be thinking about spinning off there whole premium group when this is the fastest an most profitable sector to be operating in smacks of huge desperation, it's not even like the losses are that big, certainly in comparison to what ford USA loose, ford are going bankrupt make no mistake, once the disposals are done there'l be left with ford of europe, an ford of USA which will probably use all the sale procceeds in one year of losses, an then the die will be cast an ford will i expect go for chapter 11, shame really, i guess the really sad joke is it's not jaguar, aston, volvo etc that ford really need to be rid of, but ford USA
What Ford should possibly be doing is leaving the US. Close down the US and retain the European and luxury brands.
Classic trader's mistake is to sell the winners to finance the losers. You need exceptionally deep pockets to normally come out the other side.
Once Ford get rid of PAG, place your bets for when their Mazda shares comes on the market?
Ford will be left with the Bread and Butter market, which given current trends will be dominated by the Asian, Chinese and Indians(TATA?) manufacturers in the next 20 years.
The BMW 3 already outsells the Ford Mondeo in the UK, the mature car markets are aspirational. Also how will Ford sell to large company fleet buyers and tell them
your CEO/MD will have to drive a Ford Mondeo Ghia X, because that's the top of the Ford
tree (sorry stump!). Ford bought, Volvo, Jaguar and Aston Martin, so that if they
got the 18 year old with a fiesta, he'd be a Ford man for life and ultimately end up driving around one of their luxury brands. Now Ford man is likely to dessert Ford in
his mid 30's and buy a german brand.
In 10 years ironically Jaguar may be flourishing under new ownership and Dearborn
will be just tumbleweed, Henry must be spinning in his grave!
Ford will be left with the Bread and Butter market, which given current trends will be dominated by the Asian, Chinese and Indians(TATA?) manufacturers in the next 20 years.
The BMW 3 already outsells the Ford Mondeo in the UK, the mature car markets are aspirational. Also how will Ford sell to large company fleet buyers and tell them
your CEO/MD will have to drive a Ford Mondeo Ghia X, because that's the top of the Ford
tree (sorry stump!). Ford bought, Volvo, Jaguar and Aston Martin, so that if they
got the 18 year old with a fiesta, he'd be a Ford man for life and ultimately end up driving around one of their luxury brands. Now Ford man is likely to dessert Ford in
his mid 30's and buy a german brand.
In 10 years ironically Jaguar may be flourishing under new ownership and Dearborn
will be just tumbleweed, Henry must be spinning in his grave!
dominicf said:
Once Ford get rid of PAG, place your bets for when their Mazda shares comes on the market?
Ford will be left with the Bread and Butter market, which given current trends will be dominated by the Asian, Chinese and Indians(TATA?) manufacturers in the next 20 years.
The BMW 3 already outsells the Ford Mondeo in the UK, the mature car markets are aspirational. Also how will Ford sell to large company fleet buyers and tell them
your CEO/MD will have to drive a Ford Mondeo Ghia X, because that's the top of the Ford
tree (sorry stump!). Ford bought, Volvo, Jaguar and Aston Martin, so that if they
got the 18 year old with a fiesta, he'd be a Ford man for life and ultimately end up driving around one of their luxury brands. Now Ford man is likely to dessert Ford in
his mid 30's and buy a german brand.
In 10 years ironically Jaguar may be flourishing under new ownership and Dearborn
will be just tumbleweed, Henry must be spinning in his grave!
Mazda stock may be securing that huge bridging loan!!!!!Ford will be left with the Bread and Butter market, which given current trends will be dominated by the Asian, Chinese and Indians(TATA?) manufacturers in the next 20 years.
The BMW 3 already outsells the Ford Mondeo in the UK, the mature car markets are aspirational. Also how will Ford sell to large company fleet buyers and tell them
your CEO/MD will have to drive a Ford Mondeo Ghia X, because that's the top of the Ford
tree (sorry stump!). Ford bought, Volvo, Jaguar and Aston Martin, so that if they
got the 18 year old with a fiesta, he'd be a Ford man for life and ultimately end up driving around one of their luxury brands. Now Ford man is likely to dessert Ford in
his mid 30's and buy a german brand.
In 10 years ironically Jaguar may be flourishing under new ownership and Dearborn
will be just tumbleweed, Henry must be spinning in his grave!
It does seem odd to flog off all the silver to leave yourself operating in a market that the Japanese can already kick your behind in and the Indians and Chinese are probably going to move into over the next 10 years. Leaves them purely relying on the US flag to make sales.
Ditching 'bling' at a time when 'bling' is king could be a really bad move.
Jaguar - an emotive name with a tremendous history that dates back to pre war days. Jaguar of recent times though has been fraught with difficulties and misdirections.
First of all, is the sale by Ford a question of throwing the baby out with the bath water? Yes, they have financial problems but the main Jaguar problem has really nothing to do with the cars but the terrible position of the $ versus £. It is costing too much to sell the cars at a saleable price in the USA, and that is 70% of their world market. Remember (if you are old enough) the Rolls Royce fiasco of the 1970's when they went bust because all contracts for the RB211 engine were priced in dollars? They went bust because of it.
Moving on though, I feel that Ford have been guilty of seriously misplacing Jaguar in the marketplace and their approach to marketing the cars. Going into Formula 1 was one of the biggest and most expensive. As an aside it was sad to see all the F1 cars gathering dust all together the other week in the back garages of the defunct Brown's Lane factory. Jaguar's history was and always has been endurance racing but they gaily sallied forth into the white hot technological world of F1 on a budget of $150M a year when Ferrari were spending $700M. Then they wondered why they weren't winning. To compound matters they then put Aston into endurance racing. Would Ford have sold more XK's with such great publicity or Astons? The maths dictate Jaguars at 2/3rds of the Aston prices.
Engines. Ford finally saw sense and cancelled the XK180 to fund a diesel engine, but this came too late really, good engine though it is. In Europe for example over 75% of executive cars are diesels which for many years hit Jaguar hard. The 2.7 litre is good but not good enough when considered to the Audi, BMW and Mercedes engines in the high margin executive class cars. The 530D Beemer and the 320CDi S class are examples.
The S type (and someone asked about reproducing the Mk 2 which in effect this is not unlike) was retro and is perceived as an armchair for an elderly gentleman on his way to the golf club. No younger thrusting upwardly mobile executive would take one of these when a BMW was an alternative. Pity, since it is a great car, especially in diesel guise.
The XJ is stuck sadly in the past. I know Jaguars have always been low and sleek but the styling dictates a small boot and rather cramped interior. The new XJ styling is specifically aimed at the US market - just look at the side grilles for example. Not a european taste.
The X type. Sadly seen by many as just an upmarket Mondeo, but the sheer idiocy of offering an auto diesel in the Mondeo but only manual in the Jaguar (most Jagaurs are autos) is a case of seriously getting your thinking wrong. Even more stupid when you realise that the design never envisaged a diesel and so an auto box won't fit in until the new model is launched.
Personally, it seems strange that Ford are selling just when they are turning the corner with Jaguar and about to embark on some thrilling new models. The c-XF is sleek, purposeful and modern and would appeal to a wider age group than the S type. I hear the new X type is no slouch either.
Whatever, they are selling both Jaguar and Land Rover so the only british cars will be small volume like Caterham and Morgan. It is clear that in the end the manufacture will move abroad to a cheaper wage structure country, like so many others have already done. Roumania and Poland are european examples of factory transplants. The racist views above I disassociate myself with since they hark back to the BL days and before that the Luddites. As for the facile comment on giving £100 each, what about future R&D costs which will be ten times that? Do we fund that too? It is, for me as an owner of three Jaguars, important that the name lives on and it is sure to fall into "foreign" hands. Is Ford not a foreign owner already? Tata have the money and technological know how to make a car that will astound the world, as do the Korean manufacturers too. If the marque survives and prospers, does it really matter who owns it? We threw our heritage away in the post war years due to the inability of management to manage and the too strong power of the unions. It is ironic to note that many older people who are now decrying the fall of grace were actually those who brought it about at the time. There's nothing like nostalgia and rose tinted glasses combined together.
First of all, is the sale by Ford a question of throwing the baby out with the bath water? Yes, they have financial problems but the main Jaguar problem has really nothing to do with the cars but the terrible position of the $ versus £. It is costing too much to sell the cars at a saleable price in the USA, and that is 70% of their world market. Remember (if you are old enough) the Rolls Royce fiasco of the 1970's when they went bust because all contracts for the RB211 engine were priced in dollars? They went bust because of it.
Moving on though, I feel that Ford have been guilty of seriously misplacing Jaguar in the marketplace and their approach to marketing the cars. Going into Formula 1 was one of the biggest and most expensive. As an aside it was sad to see all the F1 cars gathering dust all together the other week in the back garages of the defunct Brown's Lane factory. Jaguar's history was and always has been endurance racing but they gaily sallied forth into the white hot technological world of F1 on a budget of $150M a year when Ferrari were spending $700M. Then they wondered why they weren't winning. To compound matters they then put Aston into endurance racing. Would Ford have sold more XK's with such great publicity or Astons? The maths dictate Jaguars at 2/3rds of the Aston prices.
Engines. Ford finally saw sense and cancelled the XK180 to fund a diesel engine, but this came too late really, good engine though it is. In Europe for example over 75% of executive cars are diesels which for many years hit Jaguar hard. The 2.7 litre is good but not good enough when considered to the Audi, BMW and Mercedes engines in the high margin executive class cars. The 530D Beemer and the 320CDi S class are examples.
The S type (and someone asked about reproducing the Mk 2 which in effect this is not unlike) was retro and is perceived as an armchair for an elderly gentleman on his way to the golf club. No younger thrusting upwardly mobile executive would take one of these when a BMW was an alternative. Pity, since it is a great car, especially in diesel guise.
The XJ is stuck sadly in the past. I know Jaguars have always been low and sleek but the styling dictates a small boot and rather cramped interior. The new XJ styling is specifically aimed at the US market - just look at the side grilles for example. Not a european taste.
The X type. Sadly seen by many as just an upmarket Mondeo, but the sheer idiocy of offering an auto diesel in the Mondeo but only manual in the Jaguar (most Jagaurs are autos) is a case of seriously getting your thinking wrong. Even more stupid when you realise that the design never envisaged a diesel and so an auto box won't fit in until the new model is launched.
Personally, it seems strange that Ford are selling just when they are turning the corner with Jaguar and about to embark on some thrilling new models. The c-XF is sleek, purposeful and modern and would appeal to a wider age group than the S type. I hear the new X type is no slouch either.
Whatever, they are selling both Jaguar and Land Rover so the only british cars will be small volume like Caterham and Morgan. It is clear that in the end the manufacture will move abroad to a cheaper wage structure country, like so many others have already done. Roumania and Poland are european examples of factory transplants. The racist views above I disassociate myself with since they hark back to the BL days and before that the Luddites. As for the facile comment on giving £100 each, what about future R&D costs which will be ten times that? Do we fund that too? It is, for me as an owner of three Jaguars, important that the name lives on and it is sure to fall into "foreign" hands. Is Ford not a foreign owner already? Tata have the money and technological know how to make a car that will astound the world, as do the Korean manufacturers too. If the marque survives and prospers, does it really matter who owns it? We threw our heritage away in the post war years due to the inability of management to manage and the too strong power of the unions. It is ironic to note that many older people who are now decrying the fall of grace were actually those who brought it about at the time. There's nothing like nostalgia and rose tinted glasses combined together.
The new X-Type is nothing more than a new bumper a la XJ and will soldier on 'til 2010. But rumours a foot that it will finally have a diesel auto'box.
The UK is Jaguars number 1 market now, so lets get the cars designed for us!
Agree with most of what you said, but there are a million reasons why Jag choose to do what they did, pity it was wrong.....
G
The UK is Jaguars number 1 market now, so lets get the cars designed for us!
Agree with most of what you said, but there are a million reasons why Jag choose to do what they did, pity it was wrong.....
G
What ford need to do is accept that there market share in the US is unsustainable, in the medium to long term, that pushing subsidies to maintain market share is a short term solution an one that is now contributing to those big losses in a serious way.
They need to rethink what there doing an that means, accepting a big reduction in the amount of metal leaving there showrooms, especially stateside, a big cutback in manufacturing capacity and a end to loss making subsidies to shift cars, they need to accept that they have to sell cars at profit an if that ends up reducing there market share by half so be it, better to sell less at profit than big volume at loss, thats gonna hurt statedside but i see little alternative, there marketshare is already being eroded, an subsidies are just shifting the pace of that erosion at the expense of the bottom line, in short ford of USA need to shrink there size fast, an focus on making money on the cars they sell, rather than there postion in terms of market share as one of the big 3
They need to rethink what there doing an that means, accepting a big reduction in the amount of metal leaving there showrooms, especially stateside, a big cutback in manufacturing capacity and a end to loss making subsidies to shift cars, they need to accept that they have to sell cars at profit an if that ends up reducing there market share by half so be it, better to sell less at profit than big volume at loss, thats gonna hurt statedside but i see little alternative, there marketshare is already being eroded, an subsidies are just shifting the pace of that erosion at the expense of the bottom line, in short ford of USA need to shrink there size fast, an focus on making money on the cars they sell, rather than there postion in terms of market share as one of the big 3
Edited by peter450 on Monday 23 July 15:24
peter450 said:
What ford need to do is accept that there market share in the US is unsustainable, in the medium to long term, that pushing subsidies to maintain market share is a short term solution an one that is now contributing to those big losses in a serious way.
They need to rethink what there doing an that means, accepting a big reduction in the amount of metal leaving there showrooms, especially stateside, a big cutback in manufacturing capacity and a end to loss making subsidies to shift cars, they need to accept that they have to sell cars at profit an if that ends up reducing there market share by half so be it, better to sell less at profit than big volume at loss, thats gonna hurt statedside but i see little alternative, there marketshare is already being eroded, an subsidies are just shifting the pace of that erosion at the expense of the bottom line, in short ford of USA need to shrink there size fast, an focus on making money on the cars they sell, rather than there postion in terms of market share as one of the big 3
I wonder how much of this is down to the unions in the States preventing Ford from doing this?They need to rethink what there doing an that means, accepting a big reduction in the amount of metal leaving there showrooms, especially stateside, a big cutback in manufacturing capacity and a end to loss making subsidies to shift cars, they need to accept that they have to sell cars at profit an if that ends up reducing there market share by half so be it, better to sell less at profit than big volume at loss, thats gonna hurt statedside but i see little alternative, there marketshare is already being eroded, an subsidies are just shifting the pace of that erosion at the expense of the bottom line, in short ford of USA need to shrink there size fast, an focus on making money on the cars they sell, rather than there postion in terms of market share as one of the big 3
Edited by peter450 on Monday 23 July 15:24
Market subsidies............
In Europe alone there are estimated to be 2 MILLION cars manufactured surplus to requirements at the moment. The new car market is contracting in certain sectors due in part to taxes and also global warming. It is reckoned that 4x4 sales will start to fall for example. World wide production is vastly exceeding demand. The trouble is, if a manufacturer cuts back production unit costs rise, so it is cheaper to subsidise and keep selling.
It also seems that the governments in the developed world are moving more to a Japanese way of thinking (the three year MOT test there takes two days and is almost impossible to pass) with MOT testing getting stricter and stricter so that a car will in the end have a seven year (estimated) life in Europe before being scrapped. Now, if global warming is the reasoning I don't follow the argument. Is it less polluting to keep an older car on the road despite the slightly larger exhaust pollution or to create enormous pollution in the manufacture of a new car?
Economics are winning the argument over common sense it seems.
In Europe alone there are estimated to be 2 MILLION cars manufactured surplus to requirements at the moment. The new car market is contracting in certain sectors due in part to taxes and also global warming. It is reckoned that 4x4 sales will start to fall for example. World wide production is vastly exceeding demand. The trouble is, if a manufacturer cuts back production unit costs rise, so it is cheaper to subsidise and keep selling.
It also seems that the governments in the developed world are moving more to a Japanese way of thinking (the three year MOT test there takes two days and is almost impossible to pass) with MOT testing getting stricter and stricter so that a car will in the end have a seven year (estimated) life in Europe before being scrapped. Now, if global warming is the reasoning I don't follow the argument. Is it less polluting to keep an older car on the road despite the slightly larger exhaust pollution or to create enormous pollution in the manufacture of a new car?
Economics are winning the argument over common sense it seems.
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