Golf R engine blown

[Beanie]

Yes apparently from ECU

They told me the exact time it happened which was when the overspeed happened and told me the speed of the car at the time.

But that was all they could tell me.

I haven't seen the data myself only a phone call, so was going to pop in and ask to see everything

[catso]

SMB said:

Other than the incorrect gear selection, To overspeed an engine it needs spark and fuel, the rev limiter stops the engine exceeding max revs by design cutting both fuel and ignition.

Unless the rev limiter failed/ECU had a brain fart?

My Wife had a Renault Scenic which took upon itself to rev flat out as I pulled out of a junction, it was held on the limiter though but the only way to stop it was to switch it off, luckily it didn't happen whilst she was driving.

SMB said:

Re brakes and steering,
Steering is electrical so as ignition was on the battery would provide power to have steering assistance.

I had an Audi A3 with electric power steering and can confirm it wasn't powered with the engine not running.

Also whilst 8500rpm is high, I would be hopeful that it would not be enough (if momentary) to hole the block. Of course some valves could have snapped off and got embedded somewhere but I wouldn't expect a total engine write off, more a combination of bent valves, damaged head and dinged pistons?

[Beanie]

catso said:

SMB said:

Other than the incorrect gear selection, To overspeed an engine it needs spark and fuel, the rev limiter stops the engine exceeding max revs by design cutting both fuel and ignition.

Unless the rev limiter failed/ECU had a brain fart?

My Wife had a Renault Scenic which took upon itself to rev flat out as I pulled out of a junction, it was held on the limiter though but the only way to stop it was to switch it off, luckily it didn't happen whilst she was driving.

SMB said:

Re brakes and steering,
Steering is electrical so as ignition was on the battery would provide power to have steering assistance.

I had an Audi A3 with electric power steering and can confirm it wasn't powered with the engine not running.

Also whilst 8500rpm is high, I would be hopeful that it would not be enough (if momentary) to hole the block. Of course some valves could have snapped off and got embedded somewhere but I wouldn't expect a total engine write off, more a combination of bent valves, damaged head and dinged pistons?

I agree with the engine assessment however I'm in that fine line of repairing all that and the costs of parts and labour and potentially it being buggered anyway after a strip down, to just getting a new one and putting it in,

My problem is I've a feeling if it's not done by vw then the lease company will shaft me later, and vw are bl00dy expensive

With my luck, what ever I choose will be wrong

[SMB]

catso said:

I had an Audi A3 with electric power steering and can confirm it wasn't powered with the engine not running.

Also whilst 8500rpm is high, I would be hopeful that it would not be enough (if momentary) to hole the block. Of course some valves could have snapped off and got embedded somewhere but I wouldn't expect a total engine write off, more a combination of bent valves, damaged head and dinged pistons?

Re steering, in this failure scenario of a moving vehicle I would expect the safe failure is a powered steering rack. Did you test your a3 , moving with ignition on and no engine?

I agree with likely damaged parts , will need new head, cams, valves, springs, maybe pistons, new cylinder liners if bores damaged, etc.

[TooMany2cvs]

glasgow mega snake said:

how can you rule out a failure in something else, e.g. in the mechanism that limits the engine speed?

Um, that's part of the ECU.

[paul789]

Apols if this has already been asked, but what have the lease company said?

I would have thought that if there is any doubt about VW's 'diagnosis' then they'll be pushing to have their own assessment made. It's their asset after all.

[Beanie]

TooMany2cvs said:

glasgow mega snake said:

how can you rule out a failure in something else, e.g. in the mechanism that limits the engine speed?

Um, that's part of the ECU.

Funny how the ECU is only useful when there are sensors to tell it there's a fault

Been in countless times with a dodgy radio and dodgy traction control

Funnily enough no fault codes

[essayer]

paul789 said:

Apols if this has already been asked, but what have the lease company said?

I would have thought that if there is any doubt about VW's 'diagnosis' then they'll be pushing to have their own assessment made. It's their asset after all.

Agree - think VWFS need to be involved now it’s been to VW. If you’d taken it to a specialist first you might have been able to repair on the quiet

[Beanie]

paul789 said:

Apols if this has already been asked, but what have the lease company said?

I would have thought that if there is any doubt about VW's 'diagnosis' then they'll be pushing to have their own assessment made. It's their asset after all.

Lease company aren't interested, I used their roadside assinstance to recover the car, I asked where do you want me to take it, then said it's not on a ma intendance contract so it's up to you

I called to tell them the diagnosis as was tginseng they hold the v5 for an engine change, again they said ok if vw need the v5 we will supply it,

I said ok, based on what I've told you regarding diagnosis, anything I need to do,

First answer, just keep paying us,

Secondly, hand it back as it should be.

Well what more can I do other than getting vw to sort it to their standards

[Beanie]

essayer said:

paul789 said:

Apols if this has already been asked, but what have the lease company said?

I would have thought that if there is any doubt about VW's 'diagnosis' then they'll be pushing to have their own assessment made. It's their asset after all.

Agree - think VWFS need to be involved now it’s been to VW. If you’d taken it to a specialist first you might have been able to repair on the quiet

It's not a vwfs car, however the agent are aware, see above post

[glasgow mega snake]

TooMany2cvs said:

glasgow mega snake said:

how can you rule out a failure in something else, e.g. in the mechanism that limits the engine speed?

Um, that's part of the ECU.

the ECU must control electro/mechanical things though. They could fail, rather then the engine management itself.

I don't know details but my point is - without any clear evidence of what the failure mechanism was, how can VW confidently assign it to user error? If they have no evidence, their argument has no weight. 'that's the only way it could have happened' isn't evidence, it's speculation.

[paul789]

Beanie said:

paul789 said:

Apols if this has already been asked, but what have the lease company said?

I would have thought that if there is any doubt about VW's 'diagnosis' then they'll be pushing to have their own assessment made. It's their asset after all.

Lease company aren't interested, I used their roadside assinstance to recover the car, I asked where do you want me to take it, then said it's not on a ma intendance contract so it's up to you

I called to tell them the diagnosis as was tginseng they hold the v5 for an engine change, again they said ok if vw need the v5 we will supply it,

I said ok, based on what I've told you regarding diagnosis, anything I need to do,

First answer, just keep paying us,

Secondly, hand it back as it should be.

Well what more can I do other than getting vw to sort it to their standards

Sh!t, well sorry to hear that. That's far from great. They sound like a bunch of unhelpful people.

[Welshbeef]

catso said:

I had an Audi A3 with electric power steering and can confirm it wasn't powered with the engine not running.

Also whilst 8500rpm is high, I would be hopeful that it would not be enough (if momentary) to hole the block. Of course some valves could have snapped off and got embedded somewhere but I wouldn't expect a total engine write off, more a combination of bent valves, damaged head and dinged pistons?

Unless the OP was having a brain fart he would likely notice the engine revving mentally due to limiter failure.

Also for it to happen at the exact point he elected to change from 5th to 4th the probability of the limiter failing and then the drive by wire revving the out of the engine to interference is so small heck I'd be leveraging my house to the max and buying as many Euro lotto tickets as possible.

[Welshbeef]

Beanie said:

Yes apparently from ECU

They told me the exact time it happened which was when the overspeed happened and told me the speed of the car at the time.

But that was all they could tell me.

I haven't seen the data myself only a phone call, so was going to pop in and ask to see everything

So was the time hey gave you the exact point you downshifted as best as you can estimate?

Did you have the music on very loud as generally massive rpm in a hot hatch or sports model you are certainly aware of the noice /that's part of the fun induction noise and exhaust farting away.

[Beanie]

Yeh had the music going, I concider it a noisey car anyway with the silly artificial exhaust pitch being piped in, no it wasn't in race, I've set it individually so you don't get the full acoustics, but didn't hear any exhaust bangs, or engine bangs or turbo pops

Yeh must have been about the time the ecu said it happened plus / minus 2 minutes

[Stickyfinger]

Welshbeef said:

catso said:

I had an Audi A3 with electric power steering and can confirm it wasn't powered with the engine not running.

Also whilst 8500rpm is high, I would be hopeful that it would not be enough (if momentary) to hole the block. Of course some valves could have snapped off and got embedded somewhere but I wouldn't expect a total engine write off, more a combination of bent valves, damaged head and dinged pistons?

Unless the OP was having a brain fart he would likely notice the engine revving mentally due to limiter failure.

Yet it hit 8500rpm and he "did not notice anything"

[ashleyman]

Welshbeef said:

Beanie said:

Yes apparently from ECU

They told me the exact time it happened which was when the overspeed happened and told me the speed of the car at the time.

But that was all they could tell me.

I haven't seen the data myself only a phone call, so was going to pop in and ask to see everything

So was the time hey gave you the exact point you downshifted as best as you can estimate?

Did you have the music on very loud as generally massive rpm in a hot hatch or sports model you are certainly aware of the noice /that's part of the fun induction noise and exhaust farting away.

Manual golf r do not make the fart sound. Only DSG versions do that on the up shifts

[Beanie]

Stickyfinger said:

Welshbeef said:

catso said:

I had an Audi A3 with electric power steering and can confirm it wasn't powered with the engine not running.

Also whilst 8500rpm is high, I would be hopeful that it would not be enough (if momentary) to hole the block. Of course some valves could have snapped off and got embedded somewhere but I wouldn't expect a total engine write off, more a combination of bent valves, damaged head and dinged pistons?

Unless the OP was having a brain fart he would likely notice the engine revving mentally due to limiter failure.

Yet it hit 8500rpm and he "did not notice anything"

Saw the rise in revs as would be expected in a downshift, then nothing,

But I wouldn't see 8500 would I? Obviously my car isn't here but isn't 8500 off the clock? Can't take a look but stand to be corrected but pretty sure it stops at 8 anyway, I think I might have noticed the dial bending round itself

[cptsideways]

I'd put a bet on & say its snapped a camshaft, In which case a few valves might be all its needs maybe some pistons & a camshaft. For the sake of an hours work pop the camcover off.

8.5k should not snap rods for such a short period of time

[hman]

Are you near bristol I know of a VW specialist garage that would be able to help.