Golf R engine blown

[Beanie]

Yep I was down changing but if the engine wasn't having a good day anyway, dropping into mid range could have been the straw the broke the camels back

Yes I'm aware we are all human and all able to make mistakes

However when that 'mistake' is costing 5 figures, I want to know that it WAS me, nothe some VW bull $h!t, cos let's face it, it's not like they have ever lied to the consumer is it

[Beanie]

Welshbeef said:

Beanie said:

Fair comment,

I am familiar with the black box and know it contains everything, which surprises me the ECU is actually very basic and only registers the exceedance, which is why I am asking, it doesn't say what gear I was in, and I can't believe I did go into a gear that would cause it, which is why I am asking could an engine fault have caused it?

If it was auto they'd possibly know.

Who knows maybe no one suggested that coding of gear at time of engine failure is needed to be recorded /cost to achieve that too high and needed so few times it's a pointless addition.

End of day.
1. Engine ruined
2. Fault code is over rev
3. Within your ownership
4. One poster stated useless info for someone who had only budgeted £7-8k for 2years ownership, well obviously but why would VW or lease co have to pay for a ruined engine due to overrev.
5. You say there is a £2k+vat cost to carry out an investigation to determine what's wrong with it - seems high.
6. You must reaslise you are in for £5-15k territory of cost
7. Even if you didn't put it in gear and sat foot on the throttle to the floor the engine would simply sit at the limiter (for tank after tank of fuel - provided you have airflow).

You might want a mechanic to take a spark plug out and put an endoscope into each to look round and see the damage in each

Block could be fine in which case repair job and avoid changing engine numbers with the added pain that causes.

Yes costs for a full strip down quoted at 16 hours at 100 per hour plus vat

I'm in it for 10 - 15 based on quote

[Beanie]

Welshbeef said:

Beanie said:

Yep I was down changing but if the engine wasn't having a good day anyway, dropping into mid range could have been the straw the broke the camels back

Yes I'm aware we are all human and all able to make mistakes

However when that 'mistake' is costing 5 figures, I want to know that it WAS me, nothe some VW bull $h!t, cos let's face it, it's not like they have ever lied to the consumer is it

Downchanging 5th to 4th for a 50mph is odd anyway 6th would be fine. Unless a steep hill and not ample power to drive up it.

Are there any other fault codes logged BEFORE the engine over rev Warranty void log?

What noise did you really hear
How did it all feel through the steering dash display vibrations
Any trail of smoke
Any steam from the bonnet
Did you come to a stop in the fast lane of he 50mph? Or did you coast in neutral to the hard shoulder

Have you asked them is there a hole in the block/is the block fine just the head, valves all fked or is the Turbo shot too with bits having gone into it fking the vanes?

Why not pay a few hundred to a VW specialist to give it the once over and who is working in your interests.
£10k++ is a right kick in the balls.

As I said before, it was a none event,

No change in dynamics,
No smoke
No oil
No bits
Nothing at all

Vw have said no compression in all cylinders, at this point they are unsure about further damage, turbo, clutch etc

Yep downchange ls to slow and going into incline

I managed just to coast to a lay by

It was literally like at 70 I had dipped the clutch, no torque no nothing it just free wheeled and I don't even think I had to move it to neutral

It was done in fraction of seconds

Nothing on dash other than restart car manually

[Beanie]

SMB said:

Op
To answer those open questions you still seem to have


They can't tell you the gear you selected as it's not logged, there is no sensor in the gearbox looking at which gear is engaged, the in dash display is calculated from engine load/ speed and road speed under normal conditions. Once you exceeded normal conditions all they can say is that you exceeded max revs , so given the road speed you either selected 1st or 2nd.

There is no software that will ever save you here, the simple mechanical linkage of road speed, to road wheels, gearbox to engine will over speed the engine.

Given the scenario I would suggest you quickly exceeded the drive train capabilities ( i.e. The ability of the valve springs to close the valves before the piston came up to meet them) and the ensuring impact bent all valves and gave you zero compression n an instant, hence the engine died.

Ability to fix depends on what else was damaged during those events, Vw will not strip and repair such a failure rather just wholesale replacement. Given it's a lease car with 1 year remaining once you hand it back, I suspect your contract will enforce a vw approved solution that will return the vehicle to a position of being warrantable.

Thanks, very helpful,

At the moment vw will be doing the engine change, so hopefully it satisfies the lease company, can't do any better than that

[Beanie]

Welshbeef said:

Did the engine stop on the rev counter?
Coasting with stopped engine must have been hard with steering going heavy(unassisted any more) ditto breaks not assisted /guess you just used momentum to get to safety.

Was there any oil coming out onto the tarmac hard shoulder as you waited for recovery? Was there any on the low loader? Did you check oil levels after the incident?

Sounds like VW fancy a nice engine change and unless the block is holed then a repair will be epically cheaper/man hours might be high though.

Interesting point you make, I actually don't remember heavy steering or unusual braking. Doesn't mean it wasn't as you say, I think at the time I was trying to coast to a place a safety whilst negotiating traffic and thinking WTF, it was lower on my priority lists.

No as I keep saying, no oil anywhere no smoke, nothing at all. Was sat an hour and half before recovery, not a drip of oil, and I certainly checked.

Admittedly didn't check levels at dealer

Given the severity of the damage is would have expected fireworks

[Beanie]

glasgow mega snake said:

Sorry, but is not possible that, e.g., part of the engine could fail in such a way as to cause an overspeed momentarily as part of the engine remains functional? rapidly followed by the rest of the engine failing? How can the presence of a recorded 'overspeed' be confidently and unequivocally assigned to incorrect gear selection?

Looking at this objectively:

- VW have evidence that the engine recorded that it was over revved
- they claim its due to incorrect gear selection
- the driver claims it is not
- VW have no evidence of gear selection to corroborate their claim

On that basis, how can VW be confident that the fault is attributable to user error?

Exactly what I'm trying to get at, this is what I want answered

[Beanie]

Yes apparently from ECU

They told me the exact time it happened which was when the overspeed happened and told me the speed of the car at the time.

But that was all they could tell me.

I haven't seen the data myself only a phone call, so was going to pop in and ask to see everything

[Beanie]

catso said:

SMB said:

Other than the incorrect gear selection, To overspeed an engine it needs spark and fuel, the rev limiter stops the engine exceeding max revs by design cutting both fuel and ignition.

Unless the rev limiter failed/ECU had a brain fart?

My Wife had a Renault Scenic which took upon itself to rev flat out as I pulled out of a junction, it was held on the limiter though but the only way to stop it was to switch it off, luckily it didn't happen whilst she was driving.

SMB said:

Re brakes and steering,
Steering is electrical so as ignition was on the battery would provide power to have steering assistance.

I had an Audi A3 with electric power steering and can confirm it wasn't powered with the engine not running.

Also whilst 8500rpm is high, I would be hopeful that it would not be enough (if momentary) to hole the block. Of course some valves could have snapped off and got embedded somewhere but I wouldn't expect a total engine write off, more a combination of bent valves, damaged head and dinged pistons?

I agree with the engine assessment however I'm in that fine line of repairing all that and the costs of parts and labour and potentially it being buggered anyway after a strip down, to just getting a new one and putting it in,

My problem is I've a feeling if it's not done by vw then the lease company will shaft me later, and vw are bl00dy expensive

With my luck, what ever I choose will be wrong

[Beanie]

TooMany2cvs said:

glasgow mega snake said:

how can you rule out a failure in something else, e.g. in the mechanism that limits the engine speed?

Um, that's part of the ECU.

Funny how the ECU is only useful when there are sensors to tell it there's a fault

Been in countless times with a dodgy radio and dodgy traction control

Funnily enough no fault codes

[Beanie]

paul789 said:

Apols if this has already been asked, but what have the lease company said?

I would have thought that if there is any doubt about VW's 'diagnosis' then they'll be pushing to have their own assessment made. It's their asset after all.

Lease company aren't interested, I used their roadside assinstance to recover the car, I asked where do you want me to take it, then said it's not on a ma intendance contract so it's up to you

I called to tell them the diagnosis as was tginseng they hold the v5 for an engine change, again they said ok if vw need the v5 we will supply it,

I said ok, based on what I've told you regarding diagnosis, anything I need to do,

First answer, just keep paying us,

Secondly, hand it back as it should be.

Well what more can I do other than getting vw to sort it to their standards

[Beanie]

essayer said:

paul789 said:

Apols if this has already been asked, but what have the lease company said?

I would have thought that if there is any doubt about VW's 'diagnosis' then they'll be pushing to have their own assessment made. It's their asset after all.

Agree - think VWFS need to be involved now it’s been to VW. If you’d taken it to a specialist first you might have been able to repair on the quiet

It's not a vwfs car, however the agent are aware, see above post

[Beanie]

Yeh had the music going, I concider it a noisey car anyway with the silly artificial exhaust pitch being piped in, no it wasn't in race, I've set it individually so you don't get the full acoustics, but didn't hear any exhaust bangs, or engine bangs or turbo pops

Yeh must have been about the time the ecu said it happened plus / minus 2 minutes

[Beanie]

Stickyfinger said:

Welshbeef said:

catso said:

I had an Audi A3 with electric power steering and can confirm it wasn't powered with the engine not running.

Also whilst 8500rpm is high, I would be hopeful that it would not be enough (if momentary) to hole the block. Of course some valves could have snapped off and got embedded somewhere but I wouldn't expect a total engine write off, more a combination of bent valves, damaged head and dinged pistons?

Unless the OP was having a brain fart he would likely notice the engine revving mentally due to limiter failure.

Yet it hit 8500rpm and he "did not notice anything"

Saw the rise in revs as would be expected in a downshift, then nothing,

But I wouldn't see 8500 would I? Obviously my car isn't here but isn't 8500 off the clock? Can't take a look but stand to be corrected but pretty sure it stops at 8 anyway, I think I might have noticed the dial bending round itself

[Beanie]

It's an irrelevant discussion in this case, the car is at VW and being done properly

I've been on the receiving end of a 'dog' and I wouldn't wish the headache on anyone

I'm not going to be part of the problem

[Beanie]

Yes I'm in denial, doesn't change the fact that I'm going to have to pay for it

I agree about the insurance, hypothetically, if I had hit the wrong gear shot forward and hit a wall and somehow managed to blow the engine, the whole lot is covered, why is this different?

[Beanie]

Oh no certainly not taking it lightly and can assure you it's been followed by a couple of sleepless nights,

Spoke to insurance again and I think I'm going to have to take legal advice

They are calling it wear a tear and saying I caused it, my argument was I could cause an accident hitting a wall or using wrong fuel it's an accidental act, however they are saying no you caused it and it's wear and tear

Any one know a specialist lawyer?

[Beanie]

Here's an interesting point from previous discussions regarding an engine change and the v5 and the engine number

Vw have informed me the new engine comes with a blank engine number plate, they then number it to match the current engine number, no v5 amendment required

[Beanie]

Also now have the ecu data

Someone said previously it would say engine over speed condition warranty void

It does say engine overspeed condition

Nothing about warranty void

Edited by Beanie on Friday 6th October 12:51

[Beanie]

Yes the engine had a overspeed.

I'm saying I dont think I caused it and vw are saying there was an overspeed we think you caused it.

Nowt shady about it. It's seriously difficult to get into such a low gear, so I can't see how it was me

From what I can see, they can't say conclusively that I did do it, there's no gearing information

[Beanie]

Gary C said:

You've had it from new ? And it shows over rev and now has an engine fault ?

Your screwed.

What are the symptoms of the failure. Would be interesting as it could be anything from a bent valve to a snapped crank.

If it's just a bent valve(s) a specialist can sort it, if it's a snapped crank, it can be sorted at much less than dealer costs and I don't think it's legal under EU law for anyone to insist you use a franchised garage to do the repair.

Think your going to have to suck this one up and get it fixed.

Yeh me too

It's been quite a learning experience so far,

The one that's baffled me is the insurance point of view.

In their view, hitting another car, putting wrong fuel in is an accident and unintentional

Miss shifting however oh no that's wear and tear and my fault.

Is it just me that's confused by this definition?

As usually, your fully insured until you need it