RE: Audi R8 European first drive
Discussion
XTR2Turbo said:
mikeyboy said:
erm everyone in the city who buys a Porsche is a Petrolhead? every footballer who buys a lambo is into their cars or just wants to be seen in the newest piece of kit?
I can see a big market for this car, though personally I would want to drive rather than own one.
Surely you are supporting my point. It's not competing with the Lambo and a fair number of Porsche buyers do so because ... well it is a Porsche and in their eyes that is enough of a positive...
Still think that it is slotting into a very limited space and will struggle to get conquest sales vs premium brands such as Aston, bentley and some of the more enthusiast orientated machines are just so much better. I think it will struglle in the same way as teh NSX. I think it needed knock em back performance or styling to stand a chance and it has neither. If you want a great interior buy an S8 and save the difference
To an extent I'm supporting your point, admitted but I'm more pointing out that 1,200 cars per annum is a tiny proprtion of Porsche's market alone and there are many many bankers I assure you. And when you consider that the R8 can with the audience I've described, be bought by a small proportion of the fashionistas or uninspired who would normally be the market for junior Fezzas, Lambos, Bentley or Astons let alone the enthusiats who buy TVRs, Nobles and other specialist marques priced beyond 50k then 1,200 is a very easy figure to achieve. I mean Skoda sell 3000 Superb models in the UK.
If I were Noble I would be more worried. Two seat mid engined car that won't break down for less than 100k? How many M15's are they going to sell now?
Ho ho ... just knew that would catch a big fish...
Oh god ere we go....where there's one there will be a flock INDEED............!
Can't find anything else to criticise in Porsche so trot that old chestnut out.
Ok so why does every model look like a 911 derivative?
Bahhhh
Timeless... too right there mate, It looks like it will out live Dr Who. I say again.... why does every model have to look like it? Shows lack of creative depth in my opinion, or a lack of creative desire within the buyers.....bahhhh.
Yeah you're dead right that shows complete lack of vision and creativity, using a base design for 2 models over a 7 year run. The Porsche Cayenne looks like a bloated 911 on stilts...but who's to split hairs, they do sell so well to the materialistic sheep....loud baahhhh
Yep...knew there was something else....bahhhh
Never said the design was crap dude....it was great 35+ years ago but became a bit tiresome by the 90's. Now we are into a new century and guess what... not only does the 911 look the same, their whole damn range looks like it.
And I point out again, I marvel the engineering and performance its German after all....(quiet bahhhh)
Pugsey said:
Oh god ere we go....where there's one there will be a flock INDEED............!
Can't find anything else to criticise in Porsche so trot that old chestnut out.
Ok so why does every model look like a 911 derivative?
Pugsey said:
The shape is fabulous - and tens of thousands of buyers over the years obviously agree.
Bahhhh
Pugsey said:
It's timeless and mercifully unique. Why change something for the sake of it?.
Timeless... too right there mate, It looks like it will out live Dr Who. I say again.... why does every model have to look like it? Shows lack of creative depth in my opinion, or a lack of creative desire within the buyers.....bahhhh.
Pugsey said:
The R8 looks like an overgrown TT which in turn looks like the prev. TT.
Yeah you're dead right that shows complete lack of vision and creativity, using a base design for 2 models over a 7 year run. The Porsche Cayenne looks like a bloated 911 on stilts...but who's to split hairs, they do sell so well to the materialistic sheep....loud baahhhh
Pugsey said:
You'll be telling us 'the engine's in the wrong place' next!
Yep...knew there was something else....bahhhh
Pugsey said:
God it's not suprising Porsche have been so unsuccessful with their crap design and engineering.
Never said the design was crap dude....it was great 35+ years ago but became a bit tiresome by the 90's. Now we are into a new century and guess what... not only does the 911 look the same, their whole damn range looks like it.
And I point out again, I marvel the engineering and performance its German after all....(quiet bahhhh)
Pugsey said:
kambites said:
I wonder if there's a significant number of people like me, who would buy it (if in the market for that kind of car) simply because it's not a 911.
But then if such people exist maybe they would be like me in that they would never buy a new car anyway and hence not be much use to Audi's sales figures.
Weird way of making a major (£90k) buying decision IMO - not buying a car because you consider it the best but rather because 'it isn't a Porsche'. But then if such people exist maybe they would be like me in that they would never buy a new car anyway and hence not be much use to Audi's sales figures.
Indeed, but car buying was never a rational choice. I can fully appreciate that Porsche make technically wonderful cars, I just don't like them. If I was in the market for that kind of car I'd probably buy a second hand NSX and an extension for my house with the change
Edited by kambites on Friday 27th April 10:57
yzf1070 said:
Ho ho ... just knew that would catch a big fish...
Oh god ere we go....where there's one there will be a flock INDEED............!
Can't find anything else to criticise in Porsche so trot that old chestnut out.
Ok so why does every model look like a 911 derivative?
Bahhhh
Timeless... too right there mate, It looks like it will out live Dr Who. I say again.... why does every model have to look like it? Shows lack of creative depth in my opinion, or a lack of creative desire within the buyers.....bahhhh.
Yeah you're dead right that shows complete lack of vision and creativity, using a base design for 2 models over a 7 year run. The Porsche Cayenne looks like a bloated 911 on stilts...but who's to split hairs, they do sell so well to the materialistic sheep....loud baahhhh
Yep...knew there was something else....bahhhh
Never said the design was crap dude....it was great 35+ years ago but became a bit tiresome by the 90's. Now we are into a new century and guess what... not only does the 911 look the same, their whole damn range looks like it.
And I point out again, I marvel the engineering and performance its German after all....(quiet bahhhh)
Pugsey said:
Oh god ere we go....where there's one there will be a flock INDEED............!
Can't find anything else to criticise in Porsche so trot that old chestnut out.
Ok so why does every model look like a 911 derivative?
Pugsey said:
The shape is fabulous - and tens of thousands of buyers over the years obviously agree.
Bahhhh
Pugsey said:
It's timeless and mercifully unique. Why change something for the sake of it?.
Timeless... too right there mate, It looks like it will out live Dr Who. I say again.... why does every model have to look like it? Shows lack of creative depth in my opinion, or a lack of creative desire within the buyers.....bahhhh.
Pugsey said:
The R8 looks like an overgrown TT which in turn looks like the prev. TT.
Yeah you're dead right that shows complete lack of vision and creativity, using a base design for 2 models over a 7 year run. The Porsche Cayenne looks like a bloated 911 on stilts...but who's to split hairs, they do sell so well to the materialistic sheep....loud baahhhh
Pugsey said:
You'll be telling us 'the engine's in the wrong place' next!
Yep...knew there was something else....bahhhh
Pugsey said:
God it's not suprising Porsche have been so unsuccessful with their crap design and engineering.
Never said the design was crap dude....it was great 35+ years ago but became a bit tiresome by the 90's. Now we are into a new century and guess what... not only does the 911 look the same, their whole damn range looks like it.
And I point out again, I marvel the engineering and performance its German after all....(quiet bahhhh)
So there I was, superbike baiting down my fave B road in my 997GT3, snug in my carbon fibre bucket seat, cage behind me, listening to that glorious flat six howl as the rear tyres smeered across the road out of another corner when I suddenly thought "OH MY GOD - people are going to bah think I'm bah bah a sheep!" As I'm sure you can imagine that quite spoilt my day.............. Mind you I did see a Cayenne coming the other way at one point which made me feel a little queazy. Sometimes they wave you know which REALLY winds me up.
Edited by Pugsey on Friday 27th April 12:03
Pugsey said:
[
So there I was, superbike baiting down my fave B road in my 997GT3, snug in my carbon fibre bucket seat, cage behind me, listening to that glorious flat six howl as the rear tyres smeered across the road out of another corner when I suddenly thought "OH MY GOD - people are going to bah think I'm bah bah a sheep!" As I'm sure you can imagine that quite spoilt my day.............. Mind you I did see a Cayenne coming the other way at one point which made me feel a little queazy. Sometimes they wave you know which REALLY winds me up.
So there I was, superbike baiting down my fave B road in my 997GT3, snug in my carbon fibre bucket seat, cage behind me, listening to that glorious flat six howl as the rear tyres smeered across the road out of another corner when I suddenly thought "OH MY GOD - people are going to bah think I'm bah bah a sheep!" As I'm sure you can imagine that quite spoilt my day.............. Mind you I did see a Cayenne coming the other way at one point which made me feel a little queazy. Sometimes they wave you know which REALLY winds me up.
Edited by Pugsey on Friday 27th April 12:03
Top dude that man....it's all about enjoying your motor that counts (or in your case motors) Looking at the garage on your profile you're certainly a petrol head, just love those radicals...
ENJOY
G
yzf1070 said:
Pugsey said:
[
So there I was....... Sometimes they wave you know which REALLY winds me up.
So there I was....... Sometimes they wave you know which REALLY winds me up.
Edited by Pugsey on Friday 27th April 12:03
Top dude that man....it's all about enjoying your motor that counts (or in your case motors) Looking at the garage on your profile you're certainly a petrol head, just love those radicals...
ENJOY
G
Ahhhh. So you two are all made up now-that's nice
mikeyboy said:
XTR2Turbo said:
mikeyboy said:
erm everyone in the city who buys a Porsche is a Petrolhead? every footballer who buys a lambo is into their cars or just wants to be seen in the newest piece of kit?
I can see a big market for this car, though personally I would want to drive rather than own one.
Surely you are supporting my point. It's not competing with the Lambo and a fair number of Porsche buyers do so because ... well it is a Porsche and in their eyes that is enough of a positive...
Still think that it is slotting into a very limited space and will struggle to get conquest sales vs premium brands such as Aston, bentley and some of the more enthusiast orientated machines are just so much better. I think it will struglle in the same way as teh NSX. I think it needed knock em back performance or styling to stand a chance and it has neither. If you want a great interior buy an S8 and save the difference
To an extent I'm supporting your point, admitted but I'm more pointing out that 1,200 cars per annum is a tiny proprtion of Porsche's market alone and there are many many bankers I assure you. And when you consider that the R8 can with the audience I've described, be bought by a small proportion of the fashionistas or uninspired who would normally be the market for junior Fezzas, Lambos, Bentley or Astons let alone the enthusiats who buy TVRs, Nobles and other specialist marques priced beyond 50k then 1,200 is a very easy figure to achieve. I mean Skoda sell 3000 Superb models in the UK.
If I were Noble I would be more worried. Two seat mid engined car that won't break down for less than 100k? How many M15's are they going to sell now?
I think you'll still find that the new Noble will sell as fast as it comes out of the factory mikeyboy. The reason? The Noble buying decision is way different to the Audi one. You see, I drive an A8 to and from meetings, but until recently, I drove a Noble M400 at the weekend and on trackdays. I wouldn't have an R8 as a weekend car.... I would have one as an everyday car if it really floated my boat, so to speak.
One thing I can be damn sure of.... If you were to hand an R8 and a new Noble to the Top Gear team, I know which one they'd prefer... and a lot of people still buy cars for the passion they bring to the overall driving experience.
For the record, I like the R8 and Audi's attempt to be 'bold and brave', but I just know it would dissapoint me in the performance and noise stakes, so I won't buy one. It's also a stupid price...
As far as 911's go; I have to agree with an earlier comment; I find the design dated and the whole driving experience pretty dull until you get to the GT3 and above. I sure as hell wouldn't ever have one... bah, bah...
domcross said:
I think you'll still find that the new Noble will sell as fast as it comes out of the factory mikeyboy. The reason? The Noble buying decision is way different to the Audi one. You see, I drive an A8 to and from meetings, but until recently, I drove a Noble M400 at the weekend and on trackdays. I wouldn't have an R8 as a weekend car.... I would have one as an everyday car if it really floated my boat, so to speak.
One thing I can be damn sure of.... If you were to hand an R8 and a new Noble to the Top Gear team, I know which one they'd prefer... and a lot of people still buy cars for the passion they bring to the overall driving experience.
For the record, I like the R8 and Audi's attempt to be 'bold and brave', but I just know it would dissapoint me in the performance and noise stakes, so I won't buy one. It's also a stupid price...
As far as 911's go; I have to agree with an earlier comment; I find the design dated and the whole driving experience pretty dull until you get to the GT3 and above. I sure as hell wouldn't ever have one... bah, bah...
To be honest the Noble comment was a cheap shot. I think that in principal the Noble should have a market but I think that to have a car that pretends to be a luxury car like the M15 without the support of an M14/400 is a dangerous gamble without the marketing clout of Audi/Porsche. A gamble he will win with people like yourself and even me but not overall.
I think a loud exhaust wouldn't suit a car like this. Audi is about understatement. The B5 RS4 was not a coupé with speed holes and aerodynamics, but a stationwagon that had the fenders pulled out a little bit.
Audi is kinda like Hitler. While all the other national socialists walked around wearing militairy costumes, he himself wore a pedestrain suit. The message was that he was so powerful, he didn't need the symbols to prove it. Audi is for people who have nothing to prove, and just want a fast car. Like said, it looks like a big TT. It's not invisible, but it's not attacking your visual cortex either. A loud exhaust screaming for attention doesn't fit the picture.
And people who are into loud noise, will probably switch to an aftermarket exhaust, or straight pipes, no matter how loud the original exhaust is. Hell, people do that to their new Lamborghinis.
This is obviously a halo project that is not ment to be a permanent commercial success. They only make about 15 a day, assembled by hand. I think Ferrari makes more V8s than that. Enough people will like it just as it is.
And why complain that it's not a Porsche 911? If you want a 911, then buy a 911. Why should Audi build a 911 or a Noble M15? Audi should build an Audi, and that's what they did.
Audi is kinda like Hitler. While all the other national socialists walked around wearing militairy costumes, he himself wore a pedestrain suit. The message was that he was so powerful, he didn't need the symbols to prove it. Audi is for people who have nothing to prove, and just want a fast car. Like said, it looks like a big TT. It's not invisible, but it's not attacking your visual cortex either. A loud exhaust screaming for attention doesn't fit the picture.
And people who are into loud noise, will probably switch to an aftermarket exhaust, or straight pipes, no matter how loud the original exhaust is. Hell, people do that to their new Lamborghinis.
This is obviously a halo project that is not ment to be a permanent commercial success. They only make about 15 a day, assembled by hand. I think Ferrari makes more V8s than that. Enough people will like it just as it is.
And why complain that it's not a Porsche 911? If you want a 911, then buy a 911. Why should Audi build a 911 or a Noble M15? Audi should build an Audi, and that's what they did.
kambites said:
Indeed, but car buying was never a rational choice. I can fully appreciate that Porsche make technically wonderful cars, I just don't like them. If I was in the market for that kind of car I'd probably buy a second hand NSX and an extension for my house with the change
Edited by kambites on Friday 27th April 10:57
Then you arent the target audience. It seems that the R8 is clearly not meant to be a trackday car, but a refined, nice, high-roller kind of car. It's meant more for the youngish professional looking to impress himself, then an enthuiast.(spelling. i know.)
bigbcraig said:
kambites said:
Indeed, but car buying was never a rational choice. I can fully appreciate that Porsche make technically wonderful cars, I just don't like them. If I was in the market for that kind of car I'd probably buy a second hand NSX and an extension for my house with the change
Edited by kambites on Friday 27th April 10:57
Then you arent the target audience. It seems that the R8 is clearly not meant to be a trackday car, but a refined, nice, high-roller kind of car. It's meant more for the youngish professional looking to impress himself, then an enthuiast.(spelling. i know.)
And for old farts like me who don't need to impress anyone - my other car is a Polo!
oddball rs said:
So theres just me thinks the interior is poor then?
No coloured seat backs / centre console, no TT type style, just Honda style blandness.
No coloured seat backs / centre console, no TT type style, just Honda style blandness.
Go down to Honda dealership and sit in Civic type-s or type-r, and then say Honda interiors are bland. The Alcantara seats alone look and feel superb.
I do like it but fundamentally it is fast appearing to be a textbook example of how to take the supercar concept and turn it into a very dull, practical car.
Yes it does look nice and I'm sure it is comfortable.
Yes, the interior does look slightly better than that of a Skoda.
Yes, the Audi image does make it less brash and vulgar than others.
So, what you have is the following:
Practicality, reliability, high price tag, subtlty, 2 seats.
This has clearly been specifically designed for a junior accountant at Pricer Coopers or somesuch who hasn't yet taken delivery of his internet wife and dropped a few nerdlets.
They've looked at every single little aspect that could make a supercar a supercar and put each of those bits in a cheap grey suit and removed the tan while adding some thick NHS specs.
What was the design brief: How can we make an NSX appealing to abnormally affluent train spotters?
It is a lovely car and I will enjoy seeing them on the road but for the money almost every other supposed supercar I can think of right now would be above it on my list.
This is a car for people who think leapong off thier sofa is the same as base-jumping the Victoria Falls and get a hard on over prime numbers.
Yes it does look nice and I'm sure it is comfortable.
Yes, the interior does look slightly better than that of a Skoda.
Yes, the Audi image does make it less brash and vulgar than others.
So, what you have is the following:
Practicality, reliability, high price tag, subtlty, 2 seats.
This has clearly been specifically designed for a junior accountant at Pricer Coopers or somesuch who hasn't yet taken delivery of his internet wife and dropped a few nerdlets.
They've looked at every single little aspect that could make a supercar a supercar and put each of those bits in a cheap grey suit and removed the tan while adding some thick NHS specs.
What was the design brief: How can we make an NSX appealing to abnormally affluent train spotters?
It is a lovely car and I will enjoy seeing them on the road but for the money almost every other supposed supercar I can think of right now would be above it on my list.
This is a car for people who think leapong off thier sofa is the same as base-jumping the Victoria Falls and get a hard on over prime numbers.
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