Golf R engine blown

[Beanie]

Evanivitch said:

Beanie said:

I'm taking the insurers to task though and requested an investigation with vw, not the main dealer. I still can't believe I managed to do it... yes I know I know, the ecu says so

In the meantime, as your lease company what the car is worth as it stands, non-functional.

Might be a silly question, but if the dealer says £15k and the lease company says £12k then I know what I'd do!

Forgive my ignorance, surely the fact it's non functional to them is irrelevant, it should be functional?

[Beanie]

Gary C said:

justinio said:

Gary C said:

Don't fk about with main dealer prices.

VW Wanted 1k to repair the eldests polo, fixed for £80 ( OK did it myself but still...)

Get it to a specialist.

He cant. The car is now flagged as warranty void by VW. He needs to return it to the lease company with 1 years warranty on it.

Bugger !

Could he buy out the lease repair at specialist then sell ?

Difficult one. Would be interesting to know the fault and how it failed. Was it a sudden cut out, failure to start, rough with lots of smoke, clanks and bangs.

On an overrev, it's more likely to be valve train, can't believe it's new engine territory (but I do t know this engine)

Must be worth knowing what's actually failed, but see that the dealer wants 2k just to do this, then 6k for engine plus fitting.

However, dosent EU law specifically say that you don't need a franchised garage to maintain warranty?

I can't maintain the warranty as it's already void due overspeed, not sure another way round this.

Symptoms, sudden cut out, no power, unable to restart, nothing there to restart.

No oil, no mess, no smoke, less eventful as running out of fuel, even then you get a cough and a splutter.

[Beanie]

Yes I believe it's market value and will chase me for any devaluation as result of damage

[Beanie]

xjay1337 said:

FFS it won't have a warranty anyway after the 3 yr lease period.

Just ebay a new engine and give it back ffs.

Great idea, but it's a 2 year lease

[Beanie]

Flat6TT said:

I recently blew the motor in my R, #4 piston cracked and scored the cylinder wall.

Car was out of warranty (>60k miles) but I took it into main dealer as they stated that for £69 they would tell me exactly what was wrong with it (at the time I had no idea the piston was cracked).

So they found low compression on #4, took the head off and reported the cracked piston to VW, who offered me 70% contribution on a new engine, which meant “only” £2k...excellent I thought, only problem was they wanted £3.5k labour to fit it (27 hours).

Ended up just buying used low mileage engine off EBay for £2k and got local garage to fit for less than half the labour cost.

What happened? Or just wear and tear?

[Beanie]

Strudul said:

Does nobody else have a Golf R that can test this??

With my car I physically can't even move the stick into 1st above 10mph and even then it's very difficult unless I'm practically stationary.

And I'm sure I've read from people who've accidentally engaged 2nd on a motorway that it involved a lot of drama with the car lurching and the wheels locking up.

Edited by Strudul on Saturday 7th October 22:45

This is interesting, I didn't think it would be easy or possible.

[Beanie]

justinio said:

Strudul said:

Does nobody else have a Golf R that can test this??

With my car I physically can't even move the stick into 1st above 10mph and even then it's very difficult unless I'm practically stationary.

And I'm sure I've read from people who've accidentally engaged 2nd on a motorway that it involved a lot of drama with the car lurching and the wheels locking up.

Edited by Strudul on Saturday 7th October 22:45

I agree. I just dont see how it was possible to even put the car in 1st gear doing 70mph. I would have thought you have have to really fight the gearstick to actually get it into that low a gear at that speed. And then there would be a whole load of drama if it didnt manage to get into gear at that speed.

OP you have my sympathies. It's a horrible situation that youre in. It's exactly things like this that put me off leasing. Having to fork out huge bills for someone elses car.

If I were in your shoes, I would seriously be looking at any possible causes, as I dont believe the car would go into 1st at that speed. Having said that though, I'm not familiar with that gearbox. I wouldnt have thought the gearchanges would be assisted in any way, but as I say, I dont know.

If a gearchange does in fact turn out to be the culprit. I'd be extending the lease another year, and going down the eBay engine route. The only issue with that is, whether or not the lease company will get snotty at hand back time, given VW are aware of the issue.

£10k plus is a very bitter pill to swallow. But I wouldnt take it laying down.

Thanks appreciate the comments,

Which is why I started the thread, being told it must have been me just doesn't sit right, I'm looking for other opinions on possible causes. Ibe been presented with ecu data that shows the overspeed, but as far as I can see doesn't conclusively say you caused it.

[Beanie]

SMB said:

Beanie said:

Thanks appreciate the comments,

Which is why I started the thread, being told it must have been me just doesn't sit right, I'm looking for other opinions on possible causes. Ibe been presented with ecu data that shows the overspeed, but as far as I can see doesn't conclusively say you caused it.

It's a crap situation and I do understand you pain but selecting the wrong gear can and does happen, you only have to search the Internet to see that it's happened to other golf cars aswell as yours. It you blipped the throttle aswell , then you gave the synchromesh a chance to catch the gear. Those that think it should just have locked the wheels, the forces involved with a 1.5tonne car at 70 vs one at 20 are vastly different. So will wreck the engine before compression has a chance to brake the car.

You are in a difficult situation as your lease contract will force you to return the car in a fit state, as the lease company are aware and vw the car is effectively blacklisted so a cheap repair elsewhere won't cut it. If you decide to go cheap, the lease company could enforce repair costs again to their standard at point of return to reinstate the warranty.

I think you said earlier you did this trying to change from 6th to 3rd at 70 to slow down. That's not in any driving manual, so will be interpreted as misuse. Engine for go, brakes to slow, then change down. With 300 bhp 6th is more than capable at driving the car forward from 30 mph plus so no need to change down. All of this info is now captured by vw, your insurance company and the lease company, plus of course the internet. Any insurance claim against the vehicle at this time would raise some eyebrows I would think.

It's hard the bear but all the evidence is against you, and your potential resolution options are limited. If you want to continue to fight then you need to pay out for an independent assessment and be prepared for a potential legal fight.

Given the potential costs there, you may be better exploring lease extension /purchase options, and independent repair to minimise costs.

Thanks, a very decent and informative reply

However I have never committed to any gear selections I made, I have spoke about what has been suggested I did and that fact I was down shifting, they can't tell me what gears I was in, and I frankly don't know what gear I hit. 6th to 3rd would be a miss in any case and not something I would be going for in those circumstances

Only information I have quoted on here has been factual for the reasons you point out, and any speculation has been labelled as so.

Edited by Beanie on Sunday 8th October 10:08

[Beanie]

justinio said:

Gav147 said:

Ok I am no mechanic but surely for a complete engine failure there would be some signs/noise when it let go at 8500 rpm, whilst over the cars stock redline, is not all that high is it?, there are a few modded golf r's on YouTube running a raised redline of 8,000 rpm on stock internals and getting pushed to it quite easily without issue.

8500 is (as far as I know) the highest it will record. It could well have exceeded that.

The difference between this and the modded R's on Youtube is that this one went to 8500+ in a fraction of a second, there was (as I understand it) no build up.

Op I cant remember without reading all the posts again, but am I right in saying at the moment VW don't know what the problem is? Nothing has been inspected yet, VW are just assuming the engine is borked due to the over rev?

Would it be feasible to imagine that the ECU, detecting an over rev has shut down the fueiling? Could the engine actually be ok (given there was no smoke/drama)...

As a recap, Vw have compression tested the cylinders and there's nothing in any of them

Prices they have quoted to strip down and investigate makes it uneconomical to bother as by the time they have done it with labour times a fix and rebuild if a fix is possible then you might as well have stuck in a new one

[Beanie]

Welshbeef said:

sunbeam alpine said:

Welshbeef said:

It was 8,500 rpm engine overspeed.

The thing

Sorry but it's not clear to me. Are you suggesting that the engine was revved to 8500 rpm or revved 8500 rpm OVER the red line (i.e. over maximum
revs)

OP stated 8,500 engine overrev. As a ECU fault code.

Which is guess means it was doing at least 8.5k revs.
Given OP was in a 70mph in 5th (not sure why he wasn't in 6th is unknown. Then the speed limit dropped to 50mph so he downshifted to 4th again not sure why you'd need to be in 4th @50mph on an A road without desire to "make progress". Clearly that means he must have nipped 2nd and not 1st unless OP really got confused with the gear position.
It also means he wanted to be in 4th @70mph to slow to 50mph- certainly keeping the engine on the boil no question about that- he wanted to be at 4,500rpm in 4th for some unknown reason just with flowing traffic.

In a location with average speed cameras, I was hardly 'making progress'

I'm not sure I said I was in 5th, I think it's been suggested I was.

[Beanie]

If anything and if I missed a gear I think I was most likely changing 6th to 5th and worst case hit 3rd, which the car should have been capable of.

Just for clarity, the ECU figure for the revs is not 8500 exactly, I rounded up, it's actually quite an exact figure to a decimal place.

Also give a nominal load value.

Edited by Beanie on Sunday 8th October 10:32

[Beanie]

SMB said:

Beanie said:

In a location with average speed cameras, I was hardly 'making progress'

I'm not sure I said I was in 5th, I think it's been suggested I was.

Your earlier posts have been edited, but you have previously suggested 6-4 and 5-3 as scenarios, which was it?

Last Tuesday on your way, 6 miles into the journey, you changed gear, what were you in and what did you go to...

Come on, really??

What ever I was in and what ever I went to, it's suggested I missed.

6 - 4 or 5 - 3 the car should be capable in any case. And getting in into 1st or 2nd at that speed must take some doing, and this didn't.

[Beanie]

Welshbeef said:

Beanie said:

If anything and if I missed a gear I think I was most likely changing 6th to 5th and worst case hit 3rd, which the car should have been capable of.

This is different to what you stated earlier in the thread.

You were clear it was 5th at 70 mph and you were downchabging to 4th for 50mph. I even made the comment along the lines of that's pretty punchy in normal flowing traffic and you replied it is hilly so needed a lower gear 4th at 50mph to sustain speed going up it (but then a few pages ago you stated you coasted for about 0.5miles... if going up a hill and needing 4th to do so no way could you coast for half a mile unless of course 4th wasn't needed at all.

Again I couldnt have said with certainly only speculation.

0.5 was an estimate I regret not nipping out and measuring it for your satisfaction

[Beanie]

Welshbeef said:

Beanie said:

Last Tuesday on your way, 6 miles into the journey, you changed gear, what were you in and what did you go to...

Come on, really??

What ever I was in and what ever I went to, it's suggested I missed.

6 - 4 or 5 - 3 the car should be capable in any case. And getting in into 1st or 2nd at that speed must take some doing, and this didn't.

It can only be 1st or 2nd.

Depending on if you were in 5 or 7th gear at 70mph

I can say with certainty I was not in 7th

[Beanie]

gavsdavs said:

Beanie said:

As I said before, it was a none event,

No change in dynamics,
No smoke
No oil
No bits
Nothing at all

Vw have said no compression in all cylinders, at this point they are unsure about further damage, turbo, clutch etc

Nothing on dash other than restart car manually

Are you sure about the bit about "no compression". A piston engined care requires some compression to run. Just sounds a bit like you've been misinformed or misunderstood what was said.

I guess that's why it won't run, there's no compression.

[Beanie]

Flat6TT said:

With no compression on all 4 cylinders, almost certainly means the valves will have gone into the pistons and got bent and maybe the pistons got cracked as a result.
It’s also possible that the cylinder bores may have scoring, damaging the Plasma coating meaning they have to be rebored and oversize pistons fitted.

Sorry to be mentioning things you probably don’t want to hear OP, it is scary when you faced with huge bills, been there myself.

Explore every possible way forward to avoid forking out £10k+ that is just crazy money.

How many miles on the car btw? (Sorry if you already mentioned this)

I appreciate all views no matter how much I don't want to hear some of them!

15k

At this stage the old one should be out and the new one going in.

Isn't stopping me battling with vw though.

[Beanie]

220 said:

VW group rarely fix engines they just change them, look at all the piston ring and breaking chain issues out of all the ones i have heard of they have never 'fixed' it they change the engine (I'm happy to be proven wrong). I have the same engine (minus 80hp) I also drop a few gears when slowing for average cameras, its the way i was taught. 4 in a 50mph is about 2500rpm I use 4 as in 5 its less controllable on the throttle as it only takes a small input to start getting speed up and when people slow engine braking will slow the car. Mine will do 60mph ish in 2nd (6500 rpm) so I dont suppose its that far off for 70mph which sounds like it was a 1st gear for 8500rpm.

Sorry I cant help with your engine situation. But seeing the same posts multiple times from certain posters felt like maybe it would help them.

Thanks very helpful! There's no way I hit 1st so this helps alot!

[Beanie]

Guys are we really debating fuel economy in a Golf R? If you want to be that frugal you are driving the wrong car.

[Beanie]

xjay1337 said:

This whole thread is a waste of discussion and time.

Op has been given plenty of info, tips and advice and seemingly followed none of it. Typical of PH.

I would strip the top end *Not hard only need basic tools* and inspect valve train.
If the engine is truly buggered I would put an engine it in from Ebay. Worst case £2500 including labour and full service.

Keep the car. At the end of the lease, buy it out.
Keep for another year, then sell.

It really is that simple.

VW are not in a million years going to cough up under warranty.

Infact this whole thread is so unbelievable from the vauge stories from the OP that I'm going to call custard on the whole thing.

Im not in a position to buy the car and extend the lease,

I have taken a lot if the advice and acting on some of it thank you.

Where would you like your custard?

[Beanie]

Strudul said:

Beanie said:

Guys are we really debating fuel economy in a Golf R? If you want to be that frugal you are driving the wrong car.

That's like having a go a Usain Bolt for walking to the shops and demanding he sprint everywhere...

Not it's not, it's the fact you can't be annoyed at him for doing what ever he chooses. If he wants to walk he walks, if he sprints he sprints. Pointless analogy.