RE: Audi R8 European first drive
Discussion
NJH said:
Peter John said:
Audi is for people who have nothing to prove, and just want a fast car.
Er no Audi is for ppl that think they are design/fashion guru's and have this mistaken belief that a BMW is a bit chav whereas an Audi isn't.
Exactly. What kind of man wants to be seen as a design guru? In an indirect way you're calling Audi feminin. As if the world is watching, some men actively avoid things that will make them look feminin. In their mind at least. In reality, no gives a toss. Only a fragile ego will attach their masculinity to the make of his car. And b/c the mk1 TT was a fashion excessory, now anything with four rings is on the black list.
Though Audi is attracting its own herd of brand whores recently, in general they are still not a car you boast about. The people that drive Audis don't want the attention from complete strangers, so a loud exhaust is out of place.
For the record, I drive a BMW.
Video review: www.ukcarnews.com/roadtest.php?show=43
One of these in Black may be a future purchase of mine.
One of these in Black may be a future purchase of mine.
Peter John said:
NJH said:
Peter John said:
Audi is for people who have nothing to prove, and just want a fast car.
Er no Audi is for ppl that think they are design/fashion guru's and have this mistaken belief that a BMW is a bit chav whereas an Audi isn't.
Exactly. What kind of man wants to be seen as a design guru? In an indirect way you're calling Audi feminin. As if the world is watching, some men actively avoid things that will make them look feminin. In their mind at least. In reality, no gives a toss. Only a fragile ego will attach their masculinity to the make of his car. And b/c the mk1 TT was a fashion excessory, now anything with four rings is on the black list.
Though Audi is attracting its own herd of brand whores recently, in general they are still not a car you boast about. The people that drive Audis don't want the attention from complete strangers, so a loud exhaust is out of place.
For the record, I drive a BMW.
Funny that its gone down this tangent. I was watching the boxing last night in ITV4 and those constant adverts for the mitsubishi pickup truck are such a laugh. They really do seem to think that owning a pickup truck = well hard.
IMHO Audi is gender neutral really, a bit like Lexus but more cleverly focused on image. They have a big advantage in that they are not lumbared with a demographic like MB (old and stuck up), BMW (drug dealer) or Jaguar (old stuck up OR east end gangster OR arthur dailey). The problem with the masculine designs in the automotive industry is that to some extent they nearly always have negative aspects, that are really focused on exploiting a rather childish mindset.
For the record I don't drive a BMW but I would since they make some great cars, my next car is going to be Civic type S diesel. IMHO what that says is that I am more led by a superb value for money product rather then what I think it says about me or what other ppl think, certainly doesn't sit with a Saab or a Porsche does it? Sadly though supercars are to a greater or lesser extent about image even if that is restricted to the relationship between the driver and the car only. On this count Audi got it wrong IMHO big time. People that are not concerned about the superficial and want a fast sports car will get either a GT3 or something even more track focused like an Exige, xtr or whatever to do track days in OR possibly just a fast road car like the RS4 which IMHO makes much more sense even if superfast saloons are rather pointless.
You'd be right if the R8 was priced like a supercar, with that 600hp V10 Twin Turbo that the concept car had. Or a real sportscar like the GT3. Then it would miss the agression. But it's more in line with the Maserati GT, Jaguar XK or Carrera 4S. Not a supercar you drive once a month to a fancy restaurant, but a gran tourismo that you drive to work.
We agree there is no typical "Audi-driver" in the publics mind. I think that's a benefit for the R8. It's only human to want to make a good impression. And I doubt you'll go unnoticed in your R8. But it's a passive kind of boasting. It's not a neon lined billboard. Not a middle finger on wheels. But just a nice car, not making any social statements. You don't want that for your supercar, but you do for your Gran Tourismo.
We agree there is no typical "Audi-driver" in the publics mind. I think that's a benefit for the R8. It's only human to want to make a good impression. And I doubt you'll go unnoticed in your R8. But it's a passive kind of boasting. It's not a neon lined billboard. Not a middle finger on wheels. But just a nice car, not making any social statements. You don't want that for your supercar, but you do for your Gran Tourismo.
Peter John said:
You'd be right if the R8 was priced like a supercar, with that 600hp V10 Twin Turbo that the concept car had. Or a real sportscar like the GT3. Then it would miss the agression. But it's more in line with the Maserati GT, Jaguar XK or Carrera 4S. Not a supercar you drive once a month to a fancy restaurant, but a gran tourismo that you drive to work.
We agree there is no typical "Audi-driver" in the publics mind. I think that's a benefit for the R8. It's only human to want to make a good impression. And I doubt you'll go unnoticed in your R8. But it's a passive kind of boasting. It's not a neon lined billboard. Not a middle finger on wheels. But just a nice car, not making any social statements. You don't want that for your supercar, but you do for your Gran Tourismo.
We agree there is no typical "Audi-driver" in the publics mind. I think that's a benefit for the R8. It's only human to want to make a good impression. And I doubt you'll go unnoticed in your R8. But it's a passive kind of boasting. It's not a neon lined billboard. Not a middle finger on wheels. But just a nice car, not making any social statements. You don't want that for your supercar, but you do for your Gran Tourismo.
Riiiight.
zeki said:
I am not so sure that the R8 conforms to any stereotype, it falls in the mid-ground between a GT and a Supercar.
Yes and for me that is where the concept fails. That middle ground sounds like that of a 911 but from all the road tests I have read so far the 911 is more involving to drive. Personally I don't see the point of the modern 911 either (in non gt# spec) but that's just me.
Peter John said:
You'd be right if the R8 was priced like a supercar, with that 600hp V10 Twin Turbo that the concept car had. Or a real sportscar like the GT3. Then it would miss the agression. But it's more in line with the Maserati GT, Jaguar XK or Carrera 4S. Not a supercar you drive once a month to a fancy restaurant, but a gran tourismo that you drive to work.
If this is the logic Audi has followed then they have a few ppl in senior positions that need a good kick in the nuts. There is no sound logic in making a mid engined GT car. Putting the engine in the middle creates endless engineering/packaging problems that you would only ever do on a balls out performance car. Putting the engine in the front is the best place for anything other then an out and out high performance machine which is why practically all GT type cars have the engine up front, even Porsche did it with the 928 because it is the most sensible way to go.
NJH said:
Peter John said:
You'd be right if the R8 was priced like a supercar, with that 600hp V10 Twin Turbo that the concept car had. Or a real sportscar like the GT3. Then it would miss the agression. But it's more in line with the Maserati GT, Jaguar XK or Carrera 4S. Not a supercar you drive once a month to a fancy restaurant, but a gran tourismo that you drive to work.
If this is the logic Audi has followed then they have a few ppl in senior positions that need a good kick in the nuts. There is no sound logic in making a mid engined GT car. Putting the engine in the middle creates endless engineering/packaging problems that you would only ever do on a balls out performance car. Putting the engine in the front is the best place for anything other then an out and out high performance machine which is why practically all GT type cars have the engine up front, even Porsche did it with the 928 because it is the most sensible way to go.
So what is the Boxster and the Caymen ?
Not like Porsche to get it wrong ?
ChrisW. said:
NJH said:
Peter John said:
You'd be right if the R8 was priced like a supercar, with that 600hp V10 Twin Turbo that the concept car had. Or a real sportscar like the GT3. Then it would miss the agression. But it's more in line with the Maserati GT, Jaguar XK or Carrera 4S. Not a supercar you drive once a month to a fancy restaurant, but a gran tourismo that you drive to work.
If this is the logic Audi has followed then they have a few ppl in senior positions that need a good kick in the nuts. There is no sound logic in making a mid engined GT car. Putting the engine in the middle creates endless engineering/packaging problems that you would only ever do on a balls out performance car. Putting the engine in the front is the best place for anything other then an out and out high performance machine which is why practically all GT type cars have the engine up front, even Porsche did it with the 928 because it is the most sensible way to go.
So what is the Boxster and the Caymen ?
Not like Porsche to get it wrong ?
The boxster is the best roadster available and the Caymen is just the same with a solid roof, neither is a GT and I don't think for 1 second that Porsche designed them to be GT's. Strange question.
NJH said:
ChrisW. said:
NJH said:
Peter John said:
You'd be right if the R8 was priced like a supercar, with that 600hp V10 Twin Turbo that the concept car had. Or a real sportscar like the GT3. Then it would miss the agression. But it's more in line with the Maserati GT, Jaguar XK or Carrera 4S. Not a supercar you drive once a month to a fancy restaurant, but a gran tourismo that you drive to work.
If this is the logic Audi has followed then they have a few ppl in senior positions that need a good kick in the nuts. There is no sound logic in making a mid engined GT car. Putting the engine in the middle creates endless engineering/packaging problems that you would only ever do on a balls out performance car. Putting the engine in the front is the best place for anything other then an out and out high performance machine which is why practically all GT type cars have the engine up front, even Porsche did it with the 928 because it is the most sensible way to go.
So what is the Boxster and the Caymen ?
Not like Porsche to get it wrong ?
The boxster is the best roadster available and the Caymen is just the same with a solid roof, neither is a GT and I don't think for 1 second that Porsche designed them to be GT's. Strange question.
Platform sharing with the Gallardo, more than anything I would expect.
What else do VAG have that is close to a front engined GT with proper performance in mind?
Dave
My mate called me last night, he had an R8 for the weekend and said it was bloody amazing. He's never had anything that provoked such a reaction from people, he even had a couple of people knock on his door and ask if they could have a look at it, he got mobbed in the petrol station/s and people crossing the street stopping in front of him to have a look. He also said the noise was something else, even inside the car.
He sent me 2 pics, one of the car and the other of the gear lever gator, very tasty.
He sent me 2 pics, one of the car and the other of the gear lever gator, very tasty.
in all honesty, yes dont get me wrong its a nice car, have driven one a few times but isnt it just an over grown TT, not partic wow for 100k is it?...If you were seriously condidering buying one of these dont you think that circa £100k for an Audi badge is a little disappointing?, look what else you could have for £100k..The engine of course is amazing however showing off an audi engine like Lambo / Ferrari does is almost slightly embarassing? Im sorry, im not convinced.
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