Buying advice for 10-12k

[RUF 3]

You should get a 1989/90 with about 70-80k mls for your budget. You do see them for less (often much less) but it is worth paying top dollar for a really good one with the right type of owner / history. Manuals are not so easy to come by as only about 10% of them were built as manuals. My previous ones were manuals but the new one is an auto, and in truth it is not that bad. I decided to accept the auto because the car was so exceptional in every way, I did not think a better one could exist. These cars were over £70k new ten years ago, so best to try to find one whose owner has had it for several years and still regards it as a very expensive car. There were a few limited models which were all manuals and tended to have sports susp and LSD etc., namely the SE, Sport and GT. The SE and Sport are rarer and command a higher price. The GT is the most common. The S4 was available as Man or Auto, but is less likely to have the Sports susp etc. Do not dismiss the Auto until you drive one, if the car seems exceptional you may find you could cope ! Strangely I have yet to meet anybody who likes both the 911 and 928 - most who love one hate the other. I ran my last 928 from 27k mls to 104k mls over 3 years with nothing unexpected going wrong. Looked after properly they are virtually bulletproof. Go find one to drive, I would offer but I think we are at opposite ends of the country. Good luck in whatever route you decide on. Just saw the other part of your question - it should be in superb condition - they are very well built so unless you are amazed by how good it is for the age, you should walk away and find the one that amazes you.

>> Edited by RUF 3 on Monday 1st July 20:00

[mhibbins]

Thanks for that. I'll look out for one.

[douglasr]

You want RWD, but dont like BMW's or Porsches (except the 928 - remember its a £70K car that generates £70K car bills - if you buy a bad one it can be crippling, not to mention exhaust/brakes/tyres, group 20 insurance and 18mpg - reality check !)

What else has RWD?...

Nissan 200SX
MR2
Merc 190 Cosworth
MGF

Struggling...

[johnny senna]

For 12K I'd have a BMW E30 M3 Evolution Sport. Only 700 made. I drove a friend's yesterday, and it was fast and handled really well. This car will not loose a penny from now on. 238 bhp, RWD and very strong. With a rear roll cage and uprated suspension it would be perfect as a track day car that you could use every day at reasonable cost, with no more depreciation. It is simply miles better than the E36 M3 that followed it, and they are quicker round the track. Yum.

[HarryW]

Matt sad to see you leaving the S ranks, are you sure that V8S isn't the way to go, you know it makes sense
If you can put up with the blandness of an estate then what about a T5, yes I know FWD but bl**dy quick when all’s considered.
Failing that how about one of the best kept secrets.... a Omegod , RWD, 210bhp, 150mph (well 149ish then!) all the lamps buzzers and bells, traction, leather, air, etc and not that far short of the Bm5 in the handling department particularly if you get the MV6, try one you might be surprised.
Failing that the 200zx turbo is a bit of a nutter if you want a coupe, not sure if it's FWD or RWD though.

Harry

[mhibbins]

quote:You want RWD, but dont like BMW's or Porsches

I didn't say eirther of those things, I just don't like 911s.

quote:(except the 928 - remember its a £70K car that generates £70K car bills - if you buy a bad one it can be crippling, not to mention exhaust/brakes/tyres, group 20 insurance and 18mpg - reality check !)

Yes but is it going to be any more expensive than the griffith or the chim I was going to buy? RUF 3, any idea on that?

Thanks,

Mark

[mhibbins]

quote:Matt sad to see you leaving the S ranks, are you sure that V8S isn't the way to go, you know it makes sense

I'd love one but it's unlikely to shift rain any better than my s3 although it obviously addresses the performance issue

quote:If you can put up with the blandness of an estate then what about a T5, yes I know FWD but bl**dy quick when all’s considered.
Failing that how about one of the best kept secrets.... a Omegod , RWD, 210bhp, 150mph (well 149ish then!) all the lamps buzzers and bells, traction, leather, air, etc and not that far short of the Bm5 in the handling department particularly if you get the MV6, try one you might be surprised.

Sorry, I drove an omega a while back and hated it. We bought a v6 ghia x mondeo estate instead which is a much better car imo (although fwd) and way cheaper to run than the volvo. We still have the mondeo so we don't need another barge.

quote:Failing that the 200zx turbo is a bit of a nutter if you want a coupe, not sure if it's FWD or RWD though.

It's rwd, I had the old shape car but not for very long. We put a massive exhaust on it and a huge turbo and had a bit of fun in it but I wouldn't want another one... I'm looking for something a bit different and special.

Cheers,

Mark

[mhibbins]

Thanks very much for all your advice and ideas. The ones which piqued my interest the most so far as alternative to my original fave (the griff 4.0) for doing the winter commute are...

Mazda rx-7 (despite my fears over the engine longevity)
Porsche 928

Any more ideas of comments on the above?

Thanks,

Mark

[kevinday]

If you are looking at 928s forget a manual gearbox. Very few were sold and the reason - the manual box was a dog. I have considered 928s in the past and after a lot of research decided a 928S4 auto was the way to go. A lot of car for the money, very reliable if you get a good one, a money pit if you get a bad one, as some one else commented it was a 70K car so expect bills to match.
For the money you have, a Merc 190/C class sounds good 190 2.5 16 or C2.8 will fit the bill. Failing that an E30 M3 BMW is good fun.

[mhibbins]

RUF 3,

quote:I ran my last 928 from 27k mls to 104k mls over 3 years with nothing unexpected going wrong. Looked after properly they are virtually bulletproof.

Would you mind giving me a rough idea of running costs over this period... nothing exact, just a general idea of costs. I'm not too worried about petrol costs as everything I'm looking at is about the same but I'm more interested in servicing costs (did you do any of the servicing yourself or did you get a garage to do it for you?), parts that wore out a lot like brakes and so on, cost of bigger stuff they may have worn out such as radiators and clutches. Any information you can give me that would indicate how expensive a 928 is to run compared to the other stuff I'm looking at.

Thanks for you time,

Mark

[pdavison]

I am going through a similar decision process, with a similar budget.

I too used to have an S3, but couldn't live with it for the winter commute so I have been looking for a reliable, relatively (for a performance car) cheap to run, quick(ish) car in the same price range.

I have almost reduced the choice to either a BMW E36 M3 or a Porsche 968. The Porsche offers quite an impressive compromise of low running costs (less than the M3), performance, exclusivity and reliablility. I would suggest having a careful look at one of these as well as the 928.

I have tried a number of cars in the interim (thought I could live with being sensible) including a BMW 318is, an Alfa Romeo 156 V6 and a Golf V5 and the German build quality and reliability is proving to be very appealing (hence the Porsche and BMW options).

If you come across a gem in this price range - let me know !

Cheers

Paul

[douglasr]

www.carsurvey.org/model_Porsche_928.html

most owners seem to rate them highly....

[mhibbins]

quote:I have almost reduced the choice to either a BMW E36 M3 or a Porsche 968. The Porsche offers quite an impressive compromise of low running costs (less than the M3), performance, exclusivity and reliablility. I would suggest having a careful look at one of these as well as the 928.

I'll have to add these to the list of cars I need to test drive. The v8 of the 928 appeals more than the straight 4 of the 968 and while i'm happy with LHD my wife would baulk a bit (tempting to say tough luck but I'd like her to enjoy driving it when a big bill comes in )

quote:If you come across a gem in this price range - let me know !

No problem.

Mark

[Basil Brush]

If you are thinking 928 have a look on the Rennlist site. There are quite a few 928 guys on there who would be happy to give you an idea on running issues. Given that my 944S has cost 2-2.5k a year in maintenance for mostly routine stuff, I can't imagine a 928 would be that cheap.

[RUF 3]

mhibbins,
I have to be careful what I say when comparing a 928 to a TVR, as my last post on this topic was binned. However, my last car was a 1998 500 Griffith with 37k mls. I am absolutely convinced that my 1991 928 with 39k mls. will cost substantially less to run in terms of maintenance and repair. OK, so it's a £70k car but its a fallacy that maintenance costs are related to the cost of the car. In my experience they are more related to build quality and component design. My last one had 2 sets of pads, a pair of front discs and 3 sets of tyres per annum on average. It cost (at the time) about £700 p.a. on servicing and minor things. During my ownership it had a clutch (£600ish) and a cambelt ( £500ish). Bear in mind that I was doing about 25k mls p.a., and I did not do them gently ! The guy who bought the car from me still has it 11 years later, with 170k on it and still has had no major problems. Perhaps this is unusual but our local specialist, who looked after it for me and still does, rates the 928s as brilliant cars. A proper history and regular maintenance are vital, as is a cambelt every 45k. I would not like to pass opinion on the Auto or Manual bit yet, as I have only had 2 weeks experience of the Auto so far. I would disagree that the Manual box was bad, certainly better than my Griff gearbox. I say this not after research, but after over 100k mls in the two manual 928s I have owned.
You could be unlucky and find a bad car, but that is up to you - pay a specialist to go over it and do not settle for a less than correct car as there are plenty of good examples around. Could I suggest you call one of the Porsche specialists and have a chat about 928 or 968/944 as these guys are now looking after the majority of them nowadays and will have a much more balanced view gained from a large number of cars. I am confident enough in my views to have bought another but I may have just been very lucky so far !

>> Edited by RUF 3 on Tuesday 2nd July 18:45

>> Edited by RUF 3 on Tuesday 2nd July 18:51

[mhibbins]

Thanks very much for that, I was fearing much worse. I'll be going to have a look at an auto s4 near here to get a better look at a car this weekend.

Thanks for your time,

Mark

[Basil Brush]

I'd second RUF 3's comments regarding specialist over dealer servicing. Most of the parts are available from alternate sources too (eg Berlyn Services) so if you do work yourself it can be a lot cheaper.

[mhibbins]

I'm happy doing work myself so that's good news. Are the workshop manuals readily available?

Mark

[Basil Brush]

They are. Factory manuals are about £300 a set for the originals, or about £20 on ebay etc for a set burned onto CD Rom as PDF files. Suffice to say I have a set on CD as I'm tight.

[RUF 3]

Glad to have been able to help. Good luck, and I hope you find something to suit you. Let us know what you felt about the 928 after you have seen it !

>> Edited by RUF 3 on Wednesday 3rd July 19:22