BMW Mini Cooper S, any good?
Discussion
Better than good. One of the best all round ownership propositions going; simply excellent.
Pros:
Fantastic handling
Great build quality
Lovely interior
Superb dealer service
Fast enough
Nice gearshift
Awsome residuals
Looks great
Still cool / funky
VERY cheap to run
Cons:
A little thirsty
Lacklustre throttle response, particularly at low revs
Lacking rear seat space (yes it is!
)
Boot a little 'compact'
Ride harsh (helped with non-runflats)
Did I mention how good the chassis is? Just buy one, you simply can't go wrong.
Pros:
Fantastic handling
Great build quality
Lovely interior
Superb dealer service
Fast enough
Nice gearshift
Awsome residuals
Looks great
Still cool / funky
VERY cheap to run
Cons:
A little thirsty
Lacklustre throttle response, particularly at low revs
Lacking rear seat space (yes it is!
) Boot a little 'compact'
Ride harsh (helped with non-runflats)
Did I mention how good the chassis is? Just buy one, you simply can't go wrong.
got a dual control one(not 's'type tho)-really p*sses Mrs T off
I love it tho,like a kid with a go-cart. 
Los Angeles said:
[quote=trackdemon]Just buy one, you simply can't go wrong.
A comprehensive recommendation, Trackdemon. I've heard the engine is old-school but that a new one is on its way. quote]
Arent they "doing a porsche" on the (new)new mini due to be launched soon? I heard there are massive cost cutting measures that may well lead to some of the cars magic being lost??
Im tempted by one in a few years after the Smart (Cooper S that is).
any good? OH YES!! I test drove a Cooper S works for a bit of fun and I've had one on order for the last 4 months, arrives in couple of weeks...........one test drive and that is it you WIL be hooked............I can't wait
BTW check out www.mini2.com
BTW check out www.mini2.com
r birds got one.
Driven it a couple of times and I've gotta say...
Fantastic. If ever I've driven a small, fat car that wants a good seeing to, its that!
If she ever goes away with her mates and leaves the keys at home, Mr Mini's gonna get a sound leathering round Oulton, thats a promise. Its gonna get ab, ab, ab, abuuuuuused.
Fun, fun, I say!
Driven it a couple of times and I've gotta say...
Fantastic. If ever I've driven a small, fat car that wants a good seeing to, its that!
If she ever goes away with her mates and leaves the keys at home, Mr Mini's gonna get a sound leathering round Oulton, thats a promise. Its gonna get ab, ab, ab, abuuuuuused.
Fun, fun, I say!
Los Angeles said:
Has BMW fixed all the build niggles that plagued them?
Only had it a month, no niggles, no problems.
It just seems to get quicker and quicker.
As for petrol consumption over 1900 mile in 2 weeks mostly motorway cruising (110mph) = 30 to the gallon!
Throttle response on the John Cooper S works is spot on, no lag what so ever!
OK it ain't cheap, but I reckon it's in a class of it's own.
As I said it's ALMOST as much fun to drive as the Chim.
Los Angeles said:
Just buy one, you simply can't go wrong.
A comprehensive recommendation, Trackdemon. I've heard the engine is old-school but that a new one is on its way. A recent Mini might be a better buy than a Smart car. How's that funky dash for ease of cleaning? (Sorry to be so practical.)
The engine is probably the cars weakest point insomuch as the fact that its a functional unit that sounds pretty uninspiring. Does the job though, and goes pretty well if you give it some revs. I'd still say its a bit thristy though.
I've read in several places that BMW lose money on every MINI they make - the clamshell bonnet costs a fortune to press and the sophisticated multi-link suspension was designed without compromise at hefty cost. Bearing in mind the overall ownership experience (I'm thinking MINI Emergency + TLC) the car is a bargain. I understand the next iteration of the MINI will be designed with manufacturing costs more to the forefront of the designers minds.
The dash is easy to clean, no problem. And its quite nice to do as you appreciate the design details.
There is a tale going round that BMW completely mis-read the demand for the Mini and got an attack of fright just before the launch.
They became very worried about their ability to make enough sales, after seeing sales of the new VW Beetle go completely pear shaped.
The car is supremely over -engineered.
Its suspension system is complex and expensive at that price point.
Its got features such as the pillarless window/door frames that cost a lot for a supermini sized car.
The white roof option costs a fortune because the car has to go through the paint shop twice.
Story goes that they were going to price the car £2000 MORE than they eventually did, scared because of the flop VW Beetle.
So they bottled it and brought the price down.
The BMW MIni Cooper is over-engineered and not expensive enough !
Having established a price level - BMW have tried to eke out more profit by making us all want Coopers and Cooper S , and to add lots of expensive extras.
When the new one comes out in 3 years or so they will try to simplify it to make it cheaper to build.. Hope they don't blow it.
Meantime, the Mini is superb value. You get much better design and engineering than you have a right to at that price level.
The Mini One in particular is stunning value. Multi link alloy suspension in a car costing £10k is unheard of.
They became very worried about their ability to make enough sales, after seeing sales of the new VW Beetle go completely pear shaped.
The car is supremely over -engineered.
Its suspension system is complex and expensive at that price point.
Its got features such as the pillarless window/door frames that cost a lot for a supermini sized car.
The white roof option costs a fortune because the car has to go through the paint shop twice.
Story goes that they were going to price the car £2000 MORE than they eventually did, scared because of the flop VW Beetle.
So they bottled it and brought the price down.
The BMW MIni Cooper is over-engineered and not expensive enough !
Having established a price level - BMW have tried to eke out more profit by making us all want Coopers and Cooper S , and to add lots of expensive extras.
When the new one comes out in 3 years or so they will try to simplify it to make it cheaper to build.. Hope they don't blow it.
Meantime, the Mini is superb value. You get much better design and engineering than you have a right to at that price level.
The Mini One in particular is stunning value. Multi link alloy suspension in a car costing £10k is unheard of.
Enough.....
Driven wheels, WRONG.
The BINI has too much power to the front wheels to enable it getting its power down properly. The lame times of the super-duper-works-hopkirk pack Bini still smoked its tyres at every hillclimb I have seen one enter. Useless, it shouldn't be smoking its tyres, it should be accellerating more. BMW need to make a mid engined one. They also have rear grip issues looking at the suspension geometry of one. Although this could be more related to high speed cornering than chuckability. The things are ass happy and understeer where I have seen them on twisty circuits.
Tuneability.
Again, losing out on the essence of mini here, tuning parts cost ££££££££ and have to be BMW approved in order not to shag your precious warranty. Bit of a waste of time really as your accelleration improvement will just be realised as tyresmoke.
Success at any sort of motorsport.
Apart from "The fastest mini in the world" contest, the BINI has not shone in any form of motorsport. A reflection of the compromises and "fashion above handling".
The Spirit of Miniing.
Not that new mini owners give a toss. The original mini has an enthusiasm for all things mini, tuning, understanding, modifying and BMW/Rover before killed this off with their new model. Very sad. They are not really enthusiasts cars.
In essence, people with the above characteristics associated with miniing were not the sorts of people to buy a new one. So, the old way was not good for profit. So, what do people want. A nod to the past with styling, comfort, cd player, PS2, performance. Basically the best of both worlds. The comfort of a Jag, performance of a sports car, icon status of a mini. It just doesn't add up.
It was sad when they stopped making real minis, but most of "us" wouldn't have bought a new one. The whole New one is trying to live on pasteurs past. In its class, it fares poorly. It's no sports car, no potential to be remembered or iconic. It's basically a crappy fad, which at the moment is fun, funky and fresh. Give it a few years and they will be worth jack shit.
The absolute best tuned Works BMW mini at Wiscombe hillclimb was getting beaten by 2 seconds by the crappiest of the old minis, as well as pretty normal imps and things. Pathetic.
For a funky motorway cruiser you can impress your non-petrolheaded "girly" friends with, the BINI is #1.
IMO, the only thing a BMW mini is useful for is a source of cheap Eaton M45 superchargers for proper cars.
Sorry to be an asshole but they are crap.
TOO BIG.
Edited to say, English Invigilators; I can't be bothered to fix all the mistakes. I was ranting on my keyboard
>> Edited by kneegrow on Saturday 25th September 13:12
Driven wheels, WRONG.
The BINI has too much power to the front wheels to enable it getting its power down properly. The lame times of the super-duper-works-hopkirk pack Bini still smoked its tyres at every hillclimb I have seen one enter. Useless, it shouldn't be smoking its tyres, it should be accellerating more. BMW need to make a mid engined one. They also have rear grip issues looking at the suspension geometry of one. Although this could be more related to high speed cornering than chuckability. The things are ass happy and understeer where I have seen them on twisty circuits.
Tuneability.
Again, losing out on the essence of mini here, tuning parts cost ££££££££ and have to be BMW approved in order not to shag your precious warranty. Bit of a waste of time really as your accelleration improvement will just be realised as tyresmoke.
Success at any sort of motorsport.
Apart from "The fastest mini in the world" contest, the BINI has not shone in any form of motorsport. A reflection of the compromises and "fashion above handling".
The Spirit of Miniing.
Not that new mini owners give a toss. The original mini has an enthusiasm for all things mini, tuning, understanding, modifying and BMW/Rover before killed this off with their new model. Very sad. They are not really enthusiasts cars.
In essence, people with the above characteristics associated with miniing were not the sorts of people to buy a new one. So, the old way was not good for profit. So, what do people want. A nod to the past with styling, comfort, cd player, PS2, performance. Basically the best of both worlds. The comfort of a Jag, performance of a sports car, icon status of a mini. It just doesn't add up.
It was sad when they stopped making real minis, but most of "us" wouldn't have bought a new one. The whole New one is trying to live on pasteurs past. In its class, it fares poorly. It's no sports car, no potential to be remembered or iconic. It's basically a crappy fad, which at the moment is fun, funky and fresh. Give it a few years and they will be worth jack shit.
The absolute best tuned Works BMW mini at Wiscombe hillclimb was getting beaten by 2 seconds by the crappiest of the old minis, as well as pretty normal imps and things. Pathetic.
For a funky motorway cruiser you can impress your non-petrolheaded "girly" friends with, the BINI is #1.
IMO, the only thing a BMW mini is useful for is a source of cheap Eaton M45 superchargers for proper cars.
Sorry to be an asshole but they are crap.
TOO BIG.
Edited to say, English Invigilators; I can't be bothered to fix all the mistakes. I was ranting on my keyboard
>> Edited by kneegrow on Saturday 25th September 13:12
Sorry, but what a piece of misinformed, opinionated (non factual) crap. Sounds like you haven't even been in a MINI, let alone driven one.
Driven wheels: Er, which
wheels do you expect to be driven in a supermini? If the MINI has too much power for FWD then presumably this must apply to CUpra's / Clio Sport / Alfa GTA and every other 170bhp+ Supermini. As it happens, this statement is crap - I rarely have an issue getting the power down, and having spent a good bit of time behind the wheel of a WORKS it gets the power down beautifully too. "BMW need to make a mid-engined one" Christ man, are you on drugs? "they have rear grip issues looking at the geometry" But what about DRIVING ONE? "Ass happy & understeers" Er, can you see how stupid that sounds? As it happens, the oversteer the car does deliver is wonderfully benign and fun to explore.
I'm not going to waste time on TUNEABILITY. The car IS tuneable, just throw money at it - much like any car (old mini included).
Success in Motorsport? WTF? Naive statement.
I could pilot a 1.3 Ka up Wiscombe hillclimb faster than a WORKS if the MINI driver is crap and/or conservative so that statement is meaningless. The fact that low weight is essential in a hillclimb car is huge factor too. I'd take a circuit challenge against your car any day and show you the way - fitness for purpose you see.
"Sorry to be an asshole" Never mind, sound like you can't help it.
>> Edited by trackdemon on Saturday 25th September 14:11
There were NUMEROUS Binis at Wiscombe, I was referring to the fastest one. The Bini isn't mini, it's bigger than the new fiesta! I agree, it's a spirited good car, but the results speak for themselves. I have been a passenger in one (driven by a lunatic) and they are pretty good. But pretty good isn't good enough.
By resorting to insults, you blatantly have run out of ammunition for your argument
Seriously, as a road car, they are beyond brilliant but as a SERIOUS performance enthusiasts machine, they fall short. Well, that's what I thought anyway.
>> Edited by kneegrow on Saturday 25th September 14:28
By resorting to insults, you blatantly have run out of ammunition for your argument
Seriously, as a road car, they are beyond brilliant but as a SERIOUS performance enthusiasts machine, they fall short. Well, that's what I thought anyway.
>> Edited by kneegrow on Saturday 25th September 14:28
kneegrow said:
There were NUMEROUS Binis at Wiscombe, I was referring to the fastest one. The Bini isn't mini, it's bigger than the new fiesta! I agree, it's a spirited good car, but the results speak for themselves. I have been a passenger in one (driven by a lunatic) and they are pretty good. But pretty good isn't good enough.
By resorting to insults, you blatantly have run out of ammunition for your argument
Seriously, as a road car, they are beyond brilliant but as a SERIOUS performance enthusiasts machine, they fall short. Well, that's what I thought anyway.
>> Edited by kneegrow on Saturday 25th September 14:28
Dude, you are just plain wrong.
And for evidence, I would offer the considered opinion of the staffers at EVO ( among others) who have a good reputation for telling the truth and not towing the line of car company PR departments.
EVO are big fans of the Cooper S, and have run many of them as staff cars.
Whats more, the people on here expressing an opinion of the Cooper S are talking from experience of OWNING ONE, so they are in a better position to comment.
And the owners on PH who do have a Mini, are often in possession of other decent stuff as well. I've had a couple of 911's, ( Get Carter is a big Cooper S fan, and he drives a 911 Turbo X50 very effectively) so we talk not as newbies chuffed with a new toy but as people who have owned many cars and have driven them in anger.
So with the greatest of humble respect, sir, you are talking without the benefit of knowledge or experience: i.e complete and utter cobblers.
Seeing a few Minis at a hillclimb means absolutely zero. So many variables such as tyre choice and the willingness/technique of the driver mean that comparisons are frankly pointless.
So is the Cooper S a "serious performance enthusiasts machine" as you put it?
Well in answer to that I can report that the Cooper S is more fun and more involving down my favourite roads than the 996 Carrera I owned. A to B travel times are'nt much different either. And with the works kit fitted, well WOW, its even better !
And if that does'nt make it a decent enthusiasts machine, I don't know what does.
Ok, I suppose that we have our own pools of experience which we are drawing from.
I know a few people from the mini scene who are selling them as they are unhappy. I suppose for every one of those, you have thousands of satisfied customers.
I suppose it depends what you want from a car. I just happen to like stripped out racing cars
Truth is not determined by majority vote. But I suppose this is more of a question of taste. If you tried to quantize it, with a fair test I imagine the mini would fair very well. Isn't my cup of tea though.
No offence to anyone intended.
I know a few people from the mini scene who are selling them as they are unhappy. I suppose for every one of those, you have thousands of satisfied customers.
I suppose it depends what you want from a car. I just happen to like stripped out racing cars
Truth is not determined by majority vote. But I suppose this is more of a question of taste. If you tried to quantize it, with a fair test I imagine the mini would fair very well. Isn't my cup of tea though.
No offence to anyone intended.
If your bag is stripped out racing cars, then I can see where you are coming from.
An original Mini stripped out of anything and everything is so very light that it is bound to perform well. It is unique, and there is no way that any modern car with its need for crumple zones and such can be compared.
The Issigoni Mini is a one- off !
The new Mini ( ignoring the name and the retro heritage thing ) is simply a massively competant and well engineered FWD car.
Taken for this, it is brilliant.
But I do agree that comparisons with the original are irrelevant.
No doubt BMW sell many Minis because people like the cute styling. Fair enough, can't blame them as they are in the game of selling lots of cars.
For me, I don't care about that. I love them because they are terrifically well engineered , great value, and great fun, The styling link to the old Mini means nothing to me.
An original Mini stripped out of anything and everything is so very light that it is bound to perform well. It is unique, and there is no way that any modern car with its need for crumple zones and such can be compared.
The Issigoni Mini is a one- off !
The new Mini ( ignoring the name and the retro heritage thing ) is simply a massively competant and well engineered FWD car.
Taken for this, it is brilliant.
But I do agree that comparisons with the original are irrelevant.
No doubt BMW sell many Minis because people like the cute styling. Fair enough, can't blame them as they are in the game of selling lots of cars.
For me, I don't care about that. I love them because they are terrifically well engineered , great value, and great fun, The styling link to the old Mini means nothing to me.
Los Angeles said:
Big Al, et al, A few questions: how do you rate the new Mini's crash worthiness? How cheap are crash repairs - there's not much gap between front bumper and radiator, or side and front wings? And in view of their sales success, how long before BMW stick their own badge on the bonnet, for Europe, if not the UK? 
Can I add to the PH'er who commented BMW nearly bottled out on cost; the American stylist (now supervising Ferrari design) almost did that. At the car show he was heard to remark with a heavy sigh, "It looks way out of date already."
Crash repairs - its rates well. The Euro NCAP scores are a 4 or 5 star I think - which is pretty much as high as it gets.
Its got more airbags than a bouncy castle, and primary safety ( grip, swervability) are very high.
And on BMW bottling out over pricing - its quite right.
Many industry insiders could not believe it when BMW published the pricing structure on launch.
It seems common knowledge that the car is over-engineered for its price point and that in hindsight BMW would have opted for simpler design and construction to increase their margin ( or they simply should have ignored the experience of VW with the Beetle and charged what they intended to from the start ! )
Their solution has been to work hard on the image of the car and make the extras desirable. A lot Minis come loaded up with sat nav, full leather, wide alloys and special paint, harmon kardon stereo upgrades, zenon lights etc and they make sure the dealers always over -spec the demo cars.
Mine is an ex-dealer principals car. Its got practically the whole catalogue of extras on it !
I can't see BMW ever ditching the Mini name for two reasons:
1. they have spent a lot of money on the brand,
2. BMW branded cars are ALWAYS rear wheel drive.
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