Range Rovers becoming uninsurable in London?
Discussion
NomduJour said:
Not just for JLR stuff, either - loads and loads of places selling the kit from a quick search. Key programmers/unlockers disguised as Bluetooth speakers and mobile phones, OBD dongles, key emulators, probes for CAN wires, discounted bundles of devices for each manufacturer, everything you need to steal cars.
As all cars come supplied with an 'emergency' key, I did make the suggestion of incorporating it into the ECU, in such a way that it would normally be in a 'read-only' mode and only programable when the key operates a mechanical switch.It wouldn't solve all the problems but it would certainly reduce some of the attack surface, whilst satisfying legislation.
M
gotoPzero said:
Personally I see no reason why a simple fingerprint reader on the dash / steering wheel is not present in cars.
I can log into my bank with my thumb in about half a second.
Biometrics... That's even worse.I can log into my bank with my thumb in about half a second.
What if they get compromised? At least with a key, password, etc... You can change it. How would you change your fingerprint?
Bolt cutters would simply become an essential part of any car-jacker's toolkit.
M
Looks like Land Rover's own insurance offer is getting better. Tried a quote when it was mentioned a few pages back and they refused to quote, tried just now and they quoted £150 rolling monthly premium for brand-new Range Rover Sport diesel. Expensive, but not as outrageous as some of the figures quoted. However that is for a postcode very far from London.
camel_landy said:
gotoPzero said:
Personally I see no reason why a simple fingerprint reader on the dash / steering wheel is not present in cars.
I can log into my bank with my thumb in about half a second.
Biometrics... That's even worse.I can log into my bank with my thumb in about half a second.
What if they get compromised? At least with a key, password, etc... You can change it. How would you change your fingerprint?
Bolt cutters would simply become an essential part of any car-jacker's toolkit.
M
Sheepshanks said:
camel_landy said:
gotoPzero said:
Personally I see no reason why a simple fingerprint reader on the dash / steering wheel is not present in cars.
I can log into my bank with my thumb in about half a second.
Biometrics... That's even worse.I can log into my bank with my thumb in about half a second.
What if they get compromised? At least with a key, password, etc... You can change it. How would you change your fingerprint?
Bolt cutters would simply become an essential part of any car-jacker's toolkit.
M
The question then becomes, which villains are going to be prepared to step over the line from a remote(!) car theft to one where they have to enter premises or confront owners.
There will be some certainly.
Louis Balfour said:
You have to assume that, if security is improved to a certain point on these cars, thieves will be tempted to resort to the next option for stealing them. Which is either going into a property for the keys, or persuading the owner to hand them over. This ups the ante.
The question then becomes, which villains are going to be prepared to step over the line from a remote(!) car theft to one where they have to enter premises or confront owners.
There will be some certainly.
The other question is at what point do the police finally decide to get seriously involved, perhaps when people are being assaulted in their own homes, as this would be the point at a real deterrent comes into play. The question then becomes, which villains are going to be prepared to step over the line from a remote(!) car theft to one where they have to enter premises or confront owners.
There will be some certainly.
Sheepshanks said:
Phil. said:
The other question is at what point do the police finally decide to get seriously involved, perhaps when people are being assaulted in their own homes, as this would be the point at a real deterrent comes into play.
That already happens, and has done for years.camel_landy said:
gotoPzero said:
Personally I see no reason why a simple fingerprint reader on the dash / steering wheel is not present in cars.
I can log into my bank with my thumb in about half a second.
Biometrics... That's even worse.I can log into my bank with my thumb in about half a second.
What if they get compromised? At least with a key, password, etc... You can change it. How would you change your fingerprint?
Bolt cutters would simply become an essential part of any car-jacker's toolkit.
M
You don't see people getting their fingers hacked off.
Add in facial recognition and bingo.
Or just use a simple 2FA.
Keyless key + phone = start ok
Keyless key + face recognition= start ok
Just 1 = start denied.
Its not hard.
But I think manufacturers are against it purely because they think its taking away from their product.
People want to buy something and not worry about having to secure it. Takes from the experience.
Porsche have always been very quiet about their security. But they have had what is basically 2FA for years.
(edit for spelin)
gotoPzero said:
It works for everything else from high security installations to phones.
The difference being that those organisations know what they're doing... But even then, they get things wrong and that's where the other big differentiator is. They're geared up to react when there's a problem and they've invested coz they know there WILL be problems to react to.M
gotoPzero said:
It works for everything else from high security installations to phones.
You don't see people getting their fingers hacked off.
Add in facial recognition and bingo.
Or just use a simple 2FA.
[b]Keyless key + phone = start ok
Keyless key + face recognition= start ok
Just 1 = start denied. [/b]
Its not hard.
But I think manufacturers are against it purely because they think its taking away from their product.
People want to buy something and not worry about having to secure it. Takes from the experience.
Porsche have always been very quiet about their security. But they have had what is basically 2FA for years.
Adding an extra physical/biometric is just glossing over the the problem that the key itself, which should suffice for authentication, isn’t up to the job. Shouldn’t be necessary.You don't see people getting their fingers hacked off.
Add in facial recognition and bingo.
Or just use a simple 2FA.
[b]Keyless key + phone = start ok
Keyless key + face recognition= start ok
Just 1 = start denied. [/b]
Its not hard.
But I think manufacturers are against it purely because they think its taking away from their product.
People want to buy something and not worry about having to secure it. Takes from the experience.
Porsche have always been very quiet about their security. But they have had what is basically 2FA for years.
MrsLTs Porsche only has a key…?
NomduJour said:
Porsches get stolen like everything else, they don’t have some magic security nobody else has been able to think of.
Got a source for that?I've never seen Porsche mentioned in any discussion of the most stolen cars in the UK, e.g.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-most-stolen-cars-...
And my personal experience of older Porsches is that they have additional security over other cars in the market, to the point of actually being a pain for the owner, e.g. at least for 1999 to 2008 911s you can only get a new key fob direct from Porsche and it can only be coded to the car once. Mess that coding up and the key is junk or disconnect the battery without the key in the ignition and the alarm will go off.
NomduJour said:
Eh? Just because they are not the most desirable cars to thieves doesn’t mean they have some amazingly superior security system that no other manufacturer knows how to copy, it’s just the same VW stuff.
Again, got a source for that?1999 to 2008 911s at least had more security features than VWs or Audis. Another example, they have an anti-car jack feature with additional locking scenarios for the passenger door.
Edited by youngsyr on Sunday 12th November 14:25
NomduJour said:
Run us through the magic Porsche security systems, then.
For obvious reasons Porsche do not advertise the features, but owners know all about them.Here you go:
Passenger door remains locked despite drivers door being unlocked. I understand this is an anti car jack device.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/889594-locking-pas...
And I've already told you about two others - the alarm will sound if you disconnect the battery on older porsches without the key in the ignition. I understand this is to stop the alarm being neutralised by disconnecting the battery.
And getting a new key for one is a PITA, you have to go to Porsche and provide the V5 and personal ID to prove you are at least the registered keeper for the car. They will then sell you a new key fob, that can only be coded once. You cannot buy a second hand key fob and recode it to your car.
Edited by youngsyr on Sunday 12th November 14:34
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