Range Rovers becoming uninsurable in London?

[Louis Balfour]

Phil. said:

Out of interest, how many of the posters on this thread actually own a Range Rover? And which model?

Any poster on here had their Range Rover stolen?

Yes me.

[Mikebentley]

Louis Balfour said:

Phil. said:

Out of interest, how many of the posters on this thread actually own a Range Rover? And which model?

Any poster on here had their Range Rover stolen?

Yes me.

What model, age and when/ how was it stolen?

[tescorank]

Louis Balfour said:

Phil. said:

Out of interest, how many of the posters on this thread actually own a Range Rover? And which model?

Any poster on here had their Range Rover stolen?

Yes me.

And me-👍 RRS 4.4 2017 and waited 18months for a throttle body, shame they can secure a phone but not a RR.

[Louis Balfour]

Mikebentley said:

Louis Balfour said:

Phil. said:

Out of interest, how many of the posters on this thread actually own a Range Rover? And which model?

Any poster on here had their Range Rover stolen?

Yes me.

What model, age and when/ how was it stolen?

L322, 2011, about 10 years ago. They appear to have gone in via the sunroof and then accessed the OBD port.

It was these two fine looking chaps, who were subsequently apprehended.

[Fckitdriveon]

Phil. said:

Mikebentley said:

I’m not buying into the paranoia. I know 8 people with L494, L460, L461 and L663 Defenders. None have suffered theft of their vehicles ever. Some have owned Range Rovers for over 20 years.

It’s funny how we all have different experiences. None of us live in London or big cities though which may be a factor or leave our cars in what might be considered high risk areas. I don’t leave my car in areas that I consider risky. I would do the same if I had a Fiat or a Porsche.

Exactly!

Lots of non-RR owners on here spouting rubbish. But have ‘friends’ or ‘someone they know’ or ‘may have heard it on an internet forum’ who have had theirs stolen…..

Let’s have some real examples of 2018 and onwards FFRR’s being stolen. Actual owners on here. Anyone? Where/when?

Yes it’s all a conspiracy - from non owners to make the cars look Bad because of jealousy and from the insurers to price gouge (even when they don’t offer cover at all) definitely not because they are a piece of piss to steal and fetch good money on the black market .

I also definitely didn’t have to cancel 2 orders because I couldn’t get any coverage at all.

[Mikebentley]

Thanks @Louis Balfour. That’ must have been annoying but an an L322 that was 3 years old in 2014 (10 years ago) and was stolen using a vulnerability in pretty much any 2011 car doesn’t really scream all RR are terrible risk of theft to me. I think all makes were at best naive to this threat or overlooked it at the time and carried on with the pretence of security with keyless systems. I understand Canbus attacks are the latest thing.

I think RR issue with older vehicles is as I said previously. There are literally a million + out there and they are quite old now so cheap to buy and not cheap to run. Why would you risk stealing a Porsche Cayenne when there is so little black market for parts based on relative to RR how many have been sold. Another issue of JLR own creation was the apparent parts debacle over their change of distribution and logistics resulting in parts shortages in 2023 off the back of parts issues due to Covid and Russia invading Ukraine. This will have increased demand for black market parts feeding into thefts or attempted thefts causing damage.

Therefore a perfect storm to make insurers wary. One thing guaranteed to scare insurance companies is long lead times for repairs whilst hire cars are given and the cost of each claim skyrockets,

[Louis Balfour]

Mikebentley said:

Thanks @Louis Balfour. That’ must have been annoying but an an L322 that was 3 years old in 2014 (10 years ago) and was stolen using a vulnerability in pretty much any 2011 car doesn’t really scream all RR are terrible risk of theft to me.

It wasn't a vulnerability in pretty much any 2011 car.

But LR's response at the time and since is where the problem lies IMHO. When it happened I received an unsolicited call from a very plummy chap at JLR telling me that JLR did not have a security problem. They afterwards appeared to do pretty much nothing about the vulnerability.

[Wheelspinning]

The whole insurance thing is a storm in a teacup that shall rectify itself soon.

Once it has, I guess the forums shall promptly revert back to the good old days of 'my next door neighbours pal had one and it was always at the workshop being fixed'.

If I stayed in an area that the premium was a tad high for a RR, I would offload and buy something where the premium was more palatable and get on with things; drama has never been my forte.

LB, thank you for the post about a Range Rover that was stolen over 10 years ago.

[Louis Balfour]

Wheelspinning said:

The whole insurance thing is a storm in a teacup that shall rectify itself soon.

Once it has, I guess the forums shall promptly revert back to the good old days of 'my next door neighbours pal had one and it was always at the workshop being fixed'.

If I stayed in an area that the premium was a tad high for a RR, I would offload and buy something where the premium was more palatable and get on with things; drama has never been my forte.

LB, thank you for the post about a Range Rover that was stolen over 10 years ago.

Shall you always post unmitigated toss on any thread that draws your interest, shall you?

LR has had essentially the same security issues for over ten years. As with pretty much everything LR does they arrogantly ignored it, and would be continuing to do so were the insurance companies not stopping them.

I've had Range Rovers of all sorts for twenty years. I have one now. They are less reliable, when new, than any other marque I have ever owned, and I've owned a great many.

The problem is less the product, which is generally well designed. It it the execution, the lamentable attitude of the manufacturer and the comprehensively apathetic dealer network.

Do please now start making up stuff, as you generally do. But, for crying out loud, find a synonym for "shall".

[Phil.]

Louis Balfour said:

Shall you always post unmitigated toss on any thread that draws your interest, shall you?

LR has had essentially the same security issues for over ten years. As with pretty much everything LR does they arrogantly ignored it, and would be continuing to do so were the insurance companies not stopping them.

I've had Range Rovers of all sorts for twenty years. I have one now. They are less reliable, when new, than any other marque I have ever owned, and I've owned a great many.

The problem is less the product, which is generally well designed. It it the execution, the lamentable attitude of the manufacturer and the comprehensively apathetic dealer network.

Do please now start making up stuff, as you generally do. But, for crying out loud, find a synonym for "shall".

But you have owned Range Rovers for 20 years and continue to do so. Why?

[AmitG]

Mikebentley said:

I think RR issue with older vehicles is as I said previously. There are literally a million + out there and they are quite old now so cheap to buy and not cheap to run. Why would you risk stealing a Porsche Cayenne when there is so little black market for parts based on relative to RR how many have been sold. Another issue of JLR own creation was the apparent parts debacle over their change of distribution and logistics resulting in parts shortages in 2023 off the back of parts issues due to Covid and Russia invading Ukraine. This will have increased demand for black market parts feeding into thefts or attempted thefts causing damage.

Therefore a perfect storm to make insurers wary. One thing guaranteed to scare insurance companies is long lead times for repairs whilst hire cars are given and the cost of each claim skyrockets,

Agree with this

There are lots of things going on here

• RR are desirable even at 10 years old; lots of demand for parts
• Known security weaknesses in all but the most recent models
• Massive shortage of parts for various reasons, some of which are self-inflicted by JLR. Hence existing cars become a viable target for parts stripping
• Long lead times for repairs (because of the above) mean that an insurer would be paying out vast sums in hire car fees

Put all this together and you end up with cars that are borderline uninsurable compared to the competition.

And on top of this you have the overall situation in the UK where this sort of crime is not adequately policed or punished and root causes are not being addressed. This is IMHO a bigger issue in terms of how we educate and integrate people into society but I will let NP&E discuss that.

Unfortunately JLR don't help themselves by ignoring the real issues, instead throwing about misleading stats and seemingly claiming that the insurance industry somehow has it in for them - despite the fact that their own insurance product is refusing to insure the same cars.

[Boleros]

Phil. said:

Out of interest, how many of the posters on this thread actually own a Range Rover? And which model?

Any poster on here had their Range Rover stolen?

Not yet.

[Louis Balfour]

Phil. said:

Louis Balfour said:

Shall you always post unmitigated toss on any thread that draws your interest, shall you?

LR has had essentially the same security issues for over ten years. As with pretty much everything LR does they arrogantly ignored it, and would be continuing to do so were the insurance companies not stopping them.

I've had Range Rovers of all sorts for twenty years. I have one now. They are less reliable, when new, than any other marque I have ever owned, and I've owned a great many.

The problem is less the product, which is generally well designed. It it the execution, the lamentable attitude of the manufacturer and the comprehensively apathetic dealer network.

Do please now start making up stuff, as you generally do. But, for crying out loud, find a synonym for "shall".

But you have owned Range Rovers for 20 years and continue to do so. Why?

Why did we persist? Because we do actually use ours off road occasionally and they are good off road. They used to be quite good value; most of the toys you wanted were included. Running costs weren't hysterical. The Vogue was both the family truckster and long-distance limo.

Why won't we buy another? The dealerships seem to have become even worse. The cars appear less good value than once they were, and you've to spec the toys you want on top. Running costs do appear to be becoming high. We have other cars that do the jobs the Range Rover does. Unreliability of both the product and the manufacturer.

[megenzo]

Phil. said:

Out of interest, how many of the posters on this thread actually own a Range Rover? And which model?

Any poster on here had their Range Rover stolen?

Yup, FFRR SDV8, 2018MY, insurance has just gone up 100% to £1k pa so a little bit miffing but not the end of the world, and so far, it has remained wherever I have parked it. I do have to be a little more thoughtful of where I park it than the BMW I had prior.

Oh, and it has been 100% reliable too, fantastic motor car.

[cayman-black]

Louis Balfour said:

L322, 2011, about 10 years ago. They appear to have gone in via the sunroof and then accessed the OBD port.

It was these two fine looking chaps, who were subsequently apprehended.

I can guarantee the criminals no longer look like those two.

[Wheelspinning]

Louis Balfour said:

Wheelspinning said:

The whole insurance thing is a storm in a teacup that shall rectify itself soon.

Once it has, I guess the forums shall promptly revert back to the good old days of 'my next door neighbours pal had one and it was always at the workshop being fixed'.

If I stayed in an area that the premium was a tad high for a RR, I would offload and buy something where the premium was more palatable and get on with things; drama has never been my forte.

LB, thank you for the post about a Range Rover that was stolen over 10 years ago.

Shall you always post unmitigated toss on any thread that draws your interest, shall you?

LR has had essentially the same security issues for over ten years. As with pretty much everything LR does they arrogantly ignored it, and would be continuing to do so were the insurance companies not stopping them.

I've had Range Rovers of all sorts for twenty years. I have one now. They are less reliable, when new, than any other marque I have ever owned, and I've owned a great many.

The problem is less the product, which is generally well designed. It it the execution, the lamentable attitude of the manufacturer and the comprehensively apathetic dealer network.

Do please now start making up stuff, as you generally do. But, for crying out loud, find a synonym for "shall".

LB, you are one of life's whiners.

You are the same on each thread; my Range Rover insurance is expensive, I can't buy a new Rolex
your grammar is poor, my Range Rover is unreliable... blah blah blah.

Whilst I cannot compete against your many many Range Rover ownerships claim, over the last 3 years I have had 3...a brand new Sport, a brand new big one and due to an unfortunate error in spec on my last order, I currently have a car I swore I would never own due to buying into what poster like yourself spout...a 21 plate old shape Range Rover.

Do you want me to make up stories about unreliability experiences and £20k insurance premiums?

Sorry, I can as ever only post my experiences.

Insurance still around £850 a year; quote for incoming 460e LWB Autobiography an additional £87 to be added until policy term expires in May.

Cars: Zero issues with the 2 new ones.

Zero issues with the current ex JLR management P400e Westminster...Zero. 4 months and not a solitary issue, not a creak, rattle, warning light...nothing. never been on the back of a recovery truck and somehow delivering an average of 51mpg.

Our replacement order goes into build 3rd week of this month, and I have to say I am really going to miss this older model; what a car and I almost decided to keep it and cancel the new one.

Anyways, it seems that my experiences in your high and mighty opinion are made up as they do not align with yours; wow.

It amazes me that 10 years later you are still upset enough to post how some random JLR employee did not give you respect , a new car or whatever it is that you feel as though you were due in your perceived entitled world.

It was a good post though, and and I feel as though I shall base my future Range Rover purchase descions on a story about a car stolen 10 years ago.

Thank you.

[djc206]

Louis Balfour said:

It wasn't a vulnerability in pretty much any 2011 car.

But LR's response at the time and since is where the problem lies IMHO. When it happened I received an unsolicited call from a very plummy chap at JLR telling me that JLR did not have a security problem. They afterwards appeared to do pretty much nothing about the vulnerability.

Theft via OBD port? Yeah it was, it was how a load of RS Audis were getting nicked when I had mine at that time. C63’s were also going missing via that method. If you google OBD port theft you’ll get a whole host of owners forums lamenting the lack of security on a whole host of ‘premium’ marques.

I’ve asked before which specific method of theft was unique to JLR and I’ve not had an answer yet. Like most other manufacturers they’ve have been slow to react in the past and as owners we’re now paying the price through elevated insurance premiums but I genuinely think this is an issue of complacency within the industry as a whole mixed with a near complete lack of legal deterrent to organised car crime rather than being JLR specific. Being the worst afflicted for a while is not necessarily as a consequence of being more vulnerable, they just build the most lucrative targets.

I do wonder whether we risk going back to the good old days of millennium burglaries and people having to fend off armed intruders after their keys.

[Louis Balfour]

djc206 said:

Louis Balfour said:

It wasn't a vulnerability in pretty much any 2011 car.

But LR's response at the time and since is where the problem lies IMHO. When it happened I received an unsolicited call from a very plummy chap at JLR telling me that JLR did not have a security problem. They afterwards appeared to do pretty much nothing about the vulnerability.

Theft via OBD port? Yeah it was, it was how a load of RS Audis were getting nicked when I had mine at that time. C63’s were also going missing via that method. If you google OBD port theft you’ll get a whole host of owners forums lamenting the lack of security on a whole host of ‘premium’ marques.

I’ve asked before which specific method of theft was unique to JLR and I’ve not had an answer yet. Like most other manufacturers they’ve have been slow to react in the past and as owners we’re now paying the price through elevated insurance premiums but I genuinely think this is an issue of complacency within the industry as a whole mixed with a near complete lack of legal deterrent to organised car crime rather than being JLR specific. Being the worst afflicted for a while is not necessarily as a consequence of being more vulnerable, they just build the most lucrative targets.

I do wonder whether we risk going back to the good old days of millennium burglaries and people having to fend off armed intruders after their keys.

Agreed, there were other marques. But it's not true to say that all 2011 cars were being nicked that way, which was the point I was answering.

[NomduJour]

There is no specific weakness, in fact every security survey shows they are/were about the most secure cars (especially being early adopters of UWB keys).

People demanding a manufacturer should somehow magically make their car unstealable just sound a bit silly.

[PhilkSVR]

djc206 said:

Theft via OBD port? Yeah it was, it was how a load of RS Audis were getting nicked when I had mine at that time. C63’s were also going missing via that method. If you google OBD port theft you’ll get a whole host of owners forums lamenting the lack of security on a whole host of ‘premium’ marques.

I’ve asked before which specific method of theft was unique to JLR and I’ve not had an answer yet. Like most other manufacturers they’ve have been slow to react in the past and as owners we’re now paying the price through elevated insurance premiums but I genuinely think this is an issue of complacency within the industry as a whole mixed with a near complete lack of legal deterrent to organised car crime rather than being JLR specific. Being the worst afflicted for a while is not necessarily as a consequence of being more vulnerable, they just build the most lucrative targets.

I do wonder whether we risk going back to the good old days of millennium burglaries and people having to fend off armed intruders after their keys.

I think this sums it up pretty well. There is more to this than simply JLR have rubbish security without putting it into some context. That being they are not alone and very attractive to thieves. I don’t excuse their response to this historically and all the media attention should encourage them and others to up their game.