Sales People or Order Takers
Discussion
berlintaxi said:
Your business development manager should be a salesman, and then you can develop them into a directors role as the company grows.
Agree on the first bit but not the second. This is the problem with a lot of managers, they get promoted based on results into roles they arent as good at. I'm a great bizdev guy. I'm also a great account manager. I'm s
t at managing people and I dont want the hassle. I just want to go out, do some business, move on to the next. Giving me a Director role would slow me down and stop me doing what I like doing
VEIGHT said:
Can you tell us a bit more about your business? Or an industry similar?
I sell around 50% specialised services, R&D product design and prototyping, to signage CAD and graphics work. 50% is our own unique product line sold mainly to the sports industry, very niche.Just to add why I am also discussing this. We used to have 5 sales reps, we now have none, and after a year or so we are back up to the same sales levels, our customer base still wants our service / products, we just deal with them from our office directly now instead.
I do however feel a business development manager would potentially help but finding someone that's good or trustworthy is very tricky, and not the skill-set I have!
Im not a salesman so I can only offer my meandering opinion but the way I see it its like,
Order taker - Literally that, my friend who bought a RR Sport recently said nearly all the salesmen he spoke to seemed really disinterested - just wanted the order and move onto the next. High demand leading to low effort.
Salesman - Someone who can give their advice to fit the product to your needs based on their knowledge and experience of said product. Has the capability and willingness to demonstrate such advice. I have found many such people who have used the product to convince me to buy rather then their sales patter. Often aware of the competition and how their products compare.
Crap Salesman - Someone who will swear that whatever product he is selling is the best ever. Often claims them, their family and their in laws all bought the product with much haste. Sometimes starts a complement about the business with 'i'm not just saying it'. I avoid at all costs.
Order taker - Literally that, my friend who bought a RR Sport recently said nearly all the salesmen he spoke to seemed really disinterested - just wanted the order and move onto the next. High demand leading to low effort.
Salesman - Someone who can give their advice to fit the product to your needs based on their knowledge and experience of said product. Has the capability and willingness to demonstrate such advice. I have found many such people who have used the product to convince me to buy rather then their sales patter. Often aware of the competition and how their products compare.
Crap Salesman - Someone who will swear that whatever product he is selling is the best ever. Often claims them, their family and their in laws all bought the product with much haste. Sometimes starts a complement about the business with 'i'm not just saying it'. I avoid at all costs.
We buy houses fairly often and the 'sales negotiators' at estate agents are normally useless.
You ring up and try to find out what the vendor would take. Make an offer they say. So we make an offer and they normally come back and say, your offer has been declined. Full stop.
No attempt to sell it to me, mo attempt to negotiate, no calling me up when they have a property that's just come on the books, no attempting to do anything other than take orders.
I cringe sometimes at how bad they are but they have no qualifications, no training and often no real world experience.
Car salesmen never understand the product and often tell you they're new as if that's supposed to make things ok. They never can answer questions.
People should know the product, be able to tell you the benefits and be enthusiastic about what they're doing and do what they say they will. It's not rocket science.
You ring up and try to find out what the vendor would take. Make an offer they say. So we make an offer and they normally come back and say, your offer has been declined. Full stop.
No attempt to sell it to me, mo attempt to negotiate, no calling me up when they have a property that's just come on the books, no attempting to do anything other than take orders.
I cringe sometimes at how bad they are but they have no qualifications, no training and often no real world experience.
Car salesmen never understand the product and often tell you they're new as if that's supposed to make things ok. They never can answer questions.
People should know the product, be able to tell you the benefits and be enthusiastic about what they're doing and do what they say they will. It's not rocket science.
Bump, jumping back onto this topic.
Could anyone here perhaps recommend a good recruitment consultant I could discuss this topic with, we do need to find someone to join the team. I have taken on 5 extra people all in the factory production team and growth has been steady but we have the potential to do so much better, especially with export markets.
We also need a marketing person that will actually do stuff..
Thanks.
Could anyone here perhaps recommend a good recruitment consultant I could discuss this topic with, we do need to find someone to join the team. I have taken on 5 extra people all in the factory production team and growth has been steady but we have the potential to do so much better, especially with export markets.
We also need a marketing person that will actually do stuff..
Thanks.
seiben said:
Ah, I was going to recommend the London-based company that placed me a few years ago, but it looks like they've been bought by a larger firm. Website full of trendy profile pictures, that sort of thing. Probably not much use, sorry 
Ok thanks, we are actually not that far north of London.swerni said:
It's often the fault of incompetent managers who are incapable of attracting, motivating and keeping good people.
These people are often running " lifestyle business" that will never grow beyond that as they lack the skill and are usually oversensitive to criticism.
Ok thanks for the input, as per your previous post this is clearly another dig at me. We have identified a weakness and are trying to fix it, assuming we are simply crap at what we do because of a couple of words on a forum should really pose deeper questions about your own character. These people are often running " lifestyle business" that will never grow beyond that as they lack the skill and are usually oversensitive to criticism.
I do agree partly with what you are saying but you don't have a full picture, the staff we have attracted and have grown with the business have become very close, various external activities are held and our staff seem to love working here (mostly).
To expand from being a "lifestyle business" to a medium to large business requires new skills and input. That is what we are now looking for. Someone who is a genuinely good at their own job (perhaps say high level management with a marketing background) would be able to identify the potential in a small business with a view to help it grow and make their own.
My skills are inventing and engineering, not HR, It is an internal ongoing joke here that I am better with robots than humans but we all know our places and I know my weaknesses, hence asking for a bit of sensible advice on an internet forum full of strangers!
By the way how small is a lifestyle business, 30 people, £2m t/o?
VitzzViperzz said:
It's interesting you mentioned the 'housing boom'. Are you referring to the 2008 crisis? I am just curious to know what actually happened because I was a small kid and never watched the news. Apparently, you could get a house with little deposit - was that true?
You could get a house with no deposit and practically no job. I bought a BTL in 2007 off a girl that had a part time job (2/3 nights a week) working in a pub. She'd bought the house with no deposit and unsurprisingly rather quickly found herself not being able to meet the mortgage payments. Rather than bail out at that point, Northern Rock then allowed her to extend her mortgage to give her some cash - she spent this on a holiday and a car and a couple of months mortgage payments.northwest monkey said:
You could get a house with no deposit and practically no job. I bought a BTL in 2007 off a girl that had a part time job (2/3 nights a week) working in a pub. She'd bought the house with no deposit and unsurprisingly rather quickly found herself not being able to meet the mortgage payments. Rather than bail out at that point, Northern Rock then allowed her to extend her mortgage to give her some cash - she spent this on a holiday and a car and a couple of months mortgage payments.
The mortgage companies quite regularly offered loans for more than 100% of the value of the property, reasoning that even if the mortgagee defaulted on the loan they'd make a fat profit on the increase in the value of the property - because property prices always rise...davepoth said:
northwest monkey said:
You could get a house with no deposit and practically no job. I bought a BTL in 2007 off a girl that had a part time job (2/3 nights a week) working in a pub. She'd bought the house with no deposit and unsurprisingly rather quickly found herself not being able to meet the mortgage payments. Rather than bail out at that point, Northern Rock then allowed her to extend her mortgage to give her some cash - she spent this on a holiday and a car and a couple of months mortgage payments.
The mortgage companies quite regularly offered loans for more than 100% of the value of the property, reasoning that even if the mortgagee defaulted on the loan they'd make a fat profit on the increase in the value of the property - because property prices always rise...swerni said:
I stand by my last comment, which you had deleted ( confirming one of my points).
It's worth noting, there is nothing wrong with a lifestyle business at all, many people would bite their right arm off for one.
My role is to take a successful business and help turn it onto one which is scalable.
If you take that approach, the only people you'll end up working for you are, people who already know you and can see through it, or more likely you'll end up with the wrong kind of manager which will underline your belief about them being crap and not working.
BGARK said:
That I am somehow a horrible person, I am unable to work this out unless you know me or I am missing something here?
The ability for a business to scale really defines (IMHO) if it's a lifestyle business.It's worth noting, there is nothing wrong with a lifestyle business at all, many people would bite their right arm off for one.
My role is to take a successful business and help turn it onto one which is scalable.
BGARK said:
I am not involved in a lifestyle business, not sure why you raise this again without actually asking any questions?
Your biggest challenge will be stepping away and relinquishing control.BGARK said:
I am rarely involved in the day to day operation. So no challenge here either?
Look at your terminology " sales people who are order takers", " marketing people that actually do suff".If you take that approach, the only people you'll end up working for you are, people who already know you and can see through it, or more likely you'll end up with the wrong kind of manager which will underline your belief about them being crap and not working.
BGARK said:
That is why we are looking at external help, by the way this has overlapped into older points that are no longer relevant here.
i couldn't build a business from scratch.BGARK said:
So what are you an expert in and do you offer positive support to anyone, and if so on what basis, any examples?
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