Owing money to a company in liqudation
Discussion
cheekymeerkat said:
Hello,
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Will delaying payment affect my company credit file with credit insurers?
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Have you received a statement or demand for debt from the company, or were they a pile of poo unable to run their business correctly, which seems possible as they're in admin? If you've had the invoice and statement I'd reckon on a demand at some point, if not maybe their processes were overriden by a fat finger and your invoice has disappeared....
Will delaying payment affect my company credit file with credit insurers?
...
Credit file? Surely the only way this would hit credit scoring is if the company handed full disclosure of debtors to their financiers. How were they financed? Admins might update credit risk once they've been in contact with you, until then I'd keep schtum. As others have said, it might balance out other bad debts you haven't recovered.
A few years back my brorher was 2/3ds through having a kitchen fit with a £1000 deposit and a balance of £10500 the company went into liquidation and he had to pay another company to finish the job off iirc about £2000 but didn't ever here anything else about it... Quids in...
Edited by CRA1G on Monday 3rd September 15:20
Undercover Agent said:
janesmith1950 said:
In this time you've got to explain to your accountant why you're too morally bankrupt to pay debts you owe as you seek to take advantage of a supplier's misfortune.
Business is no place for morals. What goes around, comes around. When you screw people they eventually screw you back, with interest.
janesmith1950 said:
Undercover Agent said:
janesmith1950 said:
In this time you've got to explain to your accountant why you're too morally bankrupt to pay debts you owe as you seek to take advantage of a supplier's misfortune.
Business is no place for morals. What goes around, comes around. When you screw people they eventually screw you back, with interest.
I have done alot of insolvency and workout work in my career.
The individual debts don't matter, it is all about getting the cleanup of a bad situation sorted.
From the OP's point of view, it isn't that he is willing to pay, but there are plenty of reasons why the insolvency is also a pain for him and, if claimed, the amount of debt should reflect that.
From the IP's (Insolvency Practitioner) perspective, as I said above, they will be used to fraud, collusion, threats and worse. A bit of debate or non-recovery of debt isn't even a raise of an eyebrow.
loafer123 said:
I have done alot of insolvency and workout work in my career.
The individual debts don't matter, it is all about getting the cleanup of a bad situation sorted.
From the OP's point of view, it isn't that he is willing to pay, but there are plenty of reasons why the insolvency is also a pain for him and, if claimed, the amount of debt should reflect that.
From the IP's (Insolvency Practitioner) perspective, as I said above, they will be used to fraud, collusion, threats and worse. A bit of debate or non-recovery of debt isn't even a raise of an eyebrow.
Not for this level of debt (depending on the other assets of the company), but it’s theft. The individual debts don't matter, it is all about getting the cleanup of a bad situation sorted.
From the OP's point of view, it isn't that he is willing to pay, but there are plenty of reasons why the insolvency is also a pain for him and, if claimed, the amount of debt should reflect that.
From the IP's (Insolvency Practitioner) perspective, as I said above, they will be used to fraud, collusion, threats and worse. A bit of debate or non-recovery of debt isn't even a raise of an eyebrow.
Alpinestars said:
janesmith1950 said:
Undercover Agent said:
janesmith1950 said:
In this time you've got to explain to your accountant why you're too morally bankrupt to pay debts you owe as you seek to take advantage of a supplier's misfortune.
Business is no place for morals. What goes around, comes around. When you screw people they eventually screw you back, with interest.
On other forums (such as SP&L) there are regular examples where tradesmen or businesses have been less than fair or honest, possibly because they know that 9 times out of 10 they'll get away with it and the customer won't want to throw good money after bad in pursuing a lost cause. I'm not sure how this is any different.
Alpinestars said:
loafer123 said:
I have done alot of insolvency and workout work in my career.
The individual debts don't matter, it is all about getting the cleanup of a bad situation sorted.
From the OP's point of view, it isn't that he is willing to pay, but there are plenty of reasons why the insolvency is also a pain for him and, if claimed, the amount of debt should reflect that.
From the IP's (Insolvency Practitioner) perspective, as I said above, they will be used to fraud, collusion, threats and worse. A bit of debate or non-recovery of debt isn't even a raise of an eyebrow.
Not for this level of debt (depending on the other assets of the company), but it’s theft. The individual debts don't matter, it is all about getting the cleanup of a bad situation sorted.
From the OP's point of view, it isn't that he is willing to pay, but there are plenty of reasons why the insolvency is also a pain for him and, if claimed, the amount of debt should reflect that.
From the IP's (Insolvency Practitioner) perspective, as I said above, they will be used to fraud, collusion, threats and worse. A bit of debate or non-recovery of debt isn't even a raise of an eyebrow.
If the IP makes a claim, the OP is willing to pay, but should negotiate the sum due based on their own position, loss of warranty, time in sorting it all out etc.
It is laudable that you would go straight to paying the whole amount, but does not reflect the reality of the situation.
loafer123 said:
It certainly isn't theft.
If the IP makes a claim, the OP is willing to pay, but should negotiate the sum due based on their own position, loss of warranty, time in sorting it all out etc.
It is laudable that you would go straight to paying the whole amount, but does not reflect the reality of the situation.
A negotiation based on the service/goods received is fine. Taking advantage of the company being in Admin isn’t. If the IP makes a claim, the OP is willing to pay, but should negotiate the sum due based on their own position, loss of warranty, time in sorting it all out etc.
It is laudable that you would go straight to paying the whole amount, but does not reflect the reality of the situation.
loafer123 said:
Roughly what was the settlement amount as a proportion of nominal?
100% against LBIE, dependent where you were in the hierarchy of course. It wasn't exactly a normal liquidation, they probably were too big to fail. Most firms used flawed asset clause and group level netting to offset asset & liabilities versus Lehman estate. However, I'm querying the notion that administrators should sell of debts for next to FA, and only the administrators has a vested interest. Going to back to Lehman there are on going court cases where valuation s of liabilities to Lehman estate where in the pennies on the pound (due to poor market liquidity) range, so as a practitioner you should be aware this simply isn't that case, all the time (personally I'd expect all firms to be wound up using equal diligence).stongle said:
100% against LBIE, dependent where you were in the hierarchy of course. It wasn't exactly a normal liquidation, they probably were too big to fail. Most firms used flawed asset clause and group level netting to offset asset & liabilities versus Lehman estate. However, I'm querying the notion that administrators should sell of debts for next to FA, and only the administrators has a vested interest. Going to back to Lehman there are on going court cases where valuation s of liabilities to Lehman estate where in the pennies on the pound (due to poor market liquidity) range, so as a practitioner you should be aware this simply isn't that case, all the time (personally I'd expect all firms to be wound up using equal diligence).
In LBIE’s case it was c164% of principal. Principal plus 8 years’ stat interest at 8% non compounding. cheekymeerkat said:
A lot of wildly different opinions on here!
Thanks for your suggestions guys, it's going in to our reserve account until they mention it.
I'm still amazed that administrator's don't sell debts on? If EE can sell a £100 debt to a debt collector, why wouldn't an administrator sell the title of a very large debt to a debt collection agency for pennies in the pound? At least the administrator would get something back?
What I don’t understand is that you have been invoiced and know you are due the money, why the need to wait for administrators to re-invoice. Thanks for your suggestions guys, it's going in to our reserve account until they mention it.
I'm still amazed that administrator's don't sell debts on? If EE can sell a £100 debt to a debt collector, why wouldn't an administrator sell the title of a very large debt to a debt collection agency for pennies in the pound? At least the administrator would get something back?
Did you advise of the faulty goods prior to adminstarors being involved ?
I would remove what you think is a fair amount and pay up.
Each to their own and don’t know the ins and outs but maybe the company is in trouble due to others not paying their invoices, just a thought.
Edited by tighnamara on Thursday 6th September 19:30
So today, I paid most of the £14k (minus deduction for faulty goods), I'll have to see if they disagree with that, but they have most of their money.
They threatened a winding up order, and as far as I know, this can destroy a company once advertised in the Gazette, even if we have the means to pay.
This thread was interesting because there was a big split of opinion, I'll let you know my reason for preferring to withhold payment. I was advised the only money left would be swallowed by administrators fee's, and there was a preferential secure loan for the PE t
ts who ran the previously always profitable company in to the ground with their arrogance after just 2 years at the wheel. It caused me a hell of a lot of bother sourcing new suppliers, and all the admin involved.
Administrators fee's were down as £820 PER HOUR, plus disbursements which were just as high as they hire other "professionals" at high hourly rates on top. All staff were fully paid up before redundancy.
They threatened a winding up order, and as far as I know, this can destroy a company once advertised in the Gazette, even if we have the means to pay.
This thread was interesting because there was a big split of opinion, I'll let you know my reason for preferring to withhold payment. I was advised the only money left would be swallowed by administrators fee's, and there was a preferential secure loan for the PE t
ts who ran the previously always profitable company in to the ground with their arrogance after just 2 years at the wheel. It caused me a hell of a lot of bother sourcing new suppliers, and all the admin involved.Administrators fee's were down as £820 PER HOUR, plus disbursements which were just as high as they hire other "professionals" at high hourly rates on top. All staff were fully paid up before redundancy.
Sounds like the Administrator / Liquidator or whatever it is that is charging £820 an hour is doing it's job by getting in as much of the book debts owed to the company as possible.
What happens to the money that you paid in respect of a legitimate debt shouldn't really leave a bitter taste for you - though I can see why it could
What happens to the money that you paid in respect of a legitimate debt shouldn't really leave a bitter taste for you - though I can see why it could
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