Gone very quiet
Discussion
The dealership model is likely changing - I worked at a Mini dealers 15 or so years ago and even then it was dead in the week. With many people booking test drives and the like online for the weekend. Can only imagine that’s accelerated. I speak to a few large dealer groups through work who use our software, it’s all about online. The dealership is merely a place people go to transact on the booking they’ve made online, new car, used, service - irrelevant.
Seems the days of folk wandering around aimlessly are gone. I must admit, when I worked there I did wonder why the f
k people would be wasting their day walking around a forecourt when they could find the car and organise a drive online. I was only 20 or so then, but should think most buyers today are me then, and have little time for messing about wandering around. Digital revolution is happening rapidly in automotive.
Seems the days of folk wandering around aimlessly are gone. I must admit, when I worked there I did wonder why the f
k people would be wasting their day walking around a forecourt when they could find the car and organise a drive online. I was only 20 or so then, but should think most buyers today are me then, and have little time for messing about wandering around. Digital revolution is happening rapidly in automotive. okgo said:
The dealership model is likely changing - I worked at a Mini dealers 15 or so years ago and even then it was dead in the week. With many people booking test drives and the like online for the weekend. Can only imagine that’s accelerated. I speak to a few large dealer groups through work who use our software, it’s all about online. The dealership is merely a place people go to transact on the booking they’ve made online, new car, used, service - irrelevant.
Seems the days of folk wandering around aimlessly are gone. I must admit, when I worked there I did wonder why the fk people would be wasting their day walking around a forecourt when they could find the car and organise a drive online. I was only 20 or so then, but should think most buyers today are me then, and have little time for messing about wandering around. Digital revolution is happening rapidly in automotive.
Digital revolution Seems the days of folk wandering around aimlessly are gone. I must admit, when I worked there I did wonder why the f
k people would be wasting their day walking around a forecourt when they could find the car and organise a drive online. I was only 20 or so then, but should think most buyers today are me then, and have little time for messing about wandering around. Digital revolution is happening rapidly in automotive. 
You make it sound so elegant and advanced.
Yet you still can’t equate boot size looking at pictures, dimensions, or volumes, without just looking at it.
Or leg room.
Or understanding how horrible the HVAC controls are on a new 3 series BMW without experiencing them.
It’s like people selling beds online only. Or sofas.
Some utterly s
te outcomes doing that.I think the issue is people trying to avoid dealing with slow monolithic stupid business structures are using online if they can, but largely they’ll still want to turn up to check what’s happening/needed etc.
Arguably the online bits are awesome these days… but then when you turn up the car dealers are now in comatose mode as if the internet doesn’t exist, nothing is ready, computers don’t exist or are seen as mystical and slow, or aren’t working and need resetting etc.
The disconnect between virtual stuff and all it’s efficiency in that context of it being virtual, and the cold hard reality of, well, reality, have never seemed so far apart.
I think the millennial generation will try and avoid talking to anyone if possible, so ordering online or via an app is their preferred method. See Uber, Just Eat, The Trainline, etc. For the older generation, it is still seen as a necessary evil to go to places to physically see the item, but the likes of Uber, etc are convenient for a different reason, they avoid all the 'upselling' you get everywhere now. Which is why car supermarkets/Cazoo do well. How much? Ok. Send it back if you don't like it. It's stored on an airfield somewhere, gets a valet and service and delivered to your door. No shiny suited salesperson trying to sell a warranty/diamond coat/floor mats/air freshener/'free' servicing...
I’m still not getting your point.
I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and others said it’s a nightmare and the elephant in the room.
No fuss returns. Try a car for a week, return if not happy, all that kinda stuff from clothes to computers to home furnishings, to cars.
It ‘works’ but at what cost?
What happens when the full market is engaged via that channel and are sending over 50pc of the stuff back, rather than millennials/engaged participants who’ll spend half their working day agonising over the colour of a lampshade they’ve read hundreds of reviews about before ordering, and so don’t need to exercise the returns option.
If I tried to use online only, I’d forever be at the post office, putting stuff in bags, and churning about 75% of the stuff that landed at my door.
I mentioned this earlier in the thread, and others said it’s a nightmare and the elephant in the room.
No fuss returns. Try a car for a week, return if not happy, all that kinda stuff from clothes to computers to home furnishings, to cars.
It ‘works’ but at what cost?
What happens when the full market is engaged via that channel and are sending over 50pc of the stuff back, rather than millennials/engaged participants who’ll spend half their working day agonising over the colour of a lampshade they’ve read hundreds of reviews about before ordering, and so don’t need to exercise the returns option.
If I tried to use online only, I’d forever be at the post office, putting stuff in bags, and churning about 75% of the stuff that landed at my door.
I don't disagree with you. However, you aren't supposed to 'get it'. You aren't the target. It's the younger generation. The ones who don't have a landline or 'house phone'. They also probably have a cooker in their kitchen with the instructions in the plastic bag in the oven still.
I will buy a meal deal at Tesco with my clubcard and it's £3.40 or something.
The digital generation will order Just Eat to go to Costa and get a fancy coffee and a slice of cake for £15 or whatever it is. Why? Because it's convenient. Money is not something they've ever thought about, credit is easy so as long as they can service their debt, why worry?
I will buy a meal deal at Tesco with my clubcard and it's £3.40 or something.
The digital generation will order Just Eat to go to Costa and get a fancy coffee and a slice of cake for £15 or whatever it is. Why? Because it's convenient. Money is not something they've ever thought about, credit is easy so as long as they can service their debt, why worry?
I’m obviously now the sort of person I would have been serving as a dealership all those years ago.
I wouldn’t dream of wasting a day trawling dealerships. I’d book test drives online and turn up when it suited me. Aimlessly walking about isn’t really something many folk of a younger age would do I think. Some will, and of course seeing things in the flesh is useful but it can be streamlined and indeed has. I’ve spoken to most of the big dealer groups via work and they’re all on the same mission. Digitise and essentially turn the automotive experience into what you’d expect from a digital service.
I wouldn’t dream of wasting a day trawling dealerships. I’d book test drives online and turn up when it suited me. Aimlessly walking about isn’t really something many folk of a younger age would do I think. Some will, and of course seeing things in the flesh is useful but it can be streamlined and indeed has. I’ve spoken to most of the big dealer groups via work and they’re all on the same mission. Digitise and essentially turn the automotive experience into what you’d expect from a digital service.
Cars are morphing into a white goods/electronics type purchase. The niceties of steering feel and on-limit chassis behaviour secondary to the number of colours you can select for the interior LEDs and the size in inches of the central screen.
Then you have the internetisation of purchasing behaviour. No negotiating. Bargaining over price is a dying skill. You just accept the price and fill in the form. The car dealership dance where the hard trodden sales guy plays the 'I can go and ask my manager but I think he'll say no' game. All disappearing.
As for our economic health, not great. I speak to 20-30 people a day who're looking to remortgage. They're facing being hundreds a month worse off. Often high 4 or low 5 figures on credit cards. Lots with significant personal loans. The availability of debt is buffering the effect but, ultimately, that'll run out and then there's a problem. Best case is long term stagnation as default is avoided but years paying back debt rather than introducing new money into the wider economy.
Then you have the internetisation of purchasing behaviour. No negotiating. Bargaining over price is a dying skill. You just accept the price and fill in the form. The car dealership dance where the hard trodden sales guy plays the 'I can go and ask my manager but I think he'll say no' game. All disappearing.
As for our economic health, not great. I speak to 20-30 people a day who're looking to remortgage. They're facing being hundreds a month worse off. Often high 4 or low 5 figures on credit cards. Lots with significant personal loans. The availability of debt is buffering the effect but, ultimately, that'll run out and then there's a problem. Best case is long term stagnation as default is avoided but years paying back debt rather than introducing new money into the wider economy.
okgo said:
I’m obviously now the sort of person I would have been serving as a dealership all those years ago.
I wouldn’t dream of wasting a day trawling dealerships. I’d book test drives online and turn up when it suited me. Aimlessly walking about isn’t really something many folk of a younger age would do I think. Some will, and of course seeing things in the flesh is useful but it can be streamlined and indeed has. I’ve spoken to most of the big dealer groups via work and they’re all on the same mission. Digitise and essentially turn the automotive experience into what you’d expect from a digital service.
I think everyone is going to extremes, we have people on here saying dealers will stay exactly as they are and we have others saying they will be banished; they won't. As with everything these days it will be a hybrid model of some sort, need to book in a service they do it online and turn up, need to book a test drive, book it and turn up etc. It's really a case of making the dealer more efficient. Bit like the booking system for salons and barbers. I wouldn’t dream of wasting a day trawling dealerships. I’d book test drives online and turn up when it suited me. Aimlessly walking about isn’t really something many folk of a younger age would do I think. Some will, and of course seeing things in the flesh is useful but it can be streamlined and indeed has. I’ve spoken to most of the big dealer groups via work and they’re all on the same mission. Digitise and essentially turn the automotive experience into what you’d expect from a digital service.
As you mentioned you can never ever ever replace the human instinct and desire to look and check out something before they purchase. Doing returns willy nilly on cars is never going to happen, this isnt boho.com 20 quid tops.
Forester1965 said:
Cars are morphing into a white goods/electronics type purchase. The niceties of steering feel and on-limit chassis behaviour secondary to the number of colours you can select for the interior LEDs and the size in inches of the central screen.
Then you have the internetisation of purchasing behaviour. No negotiating. Bargaining over price is a dying skill. You just accept the price and fill in the form. The car dealership dance where the hard trodden sales guy plays the 'I can go and ask my manager but I think he'll say no' game. All disappearing.
As for our economic health, not great. I speak to 20-30 people a day who're looking to remortgage. They're facing being hundreds a month worse off. Often high 4 or low 5 figures on credit cards. Lots with significant personal loans. The availability of debt is buffering the effect but, ultimately, that'll run out and then there's a problem. Best case is long term stagnation as default is avoided but years paying back debt rather than introducing new money into the wider economy.
This has been happening since the 1960s at least, (for cars) when the Japanese worked out that what most people wanted was a car that worked, not a DIY project. Plus the best selling cars of (say) 1984 Then you have the internetisation of purchasing behaviour. No negotiating. Bargaining over price is a dying skill. You just accept the price and fill in the form. The car dealership dance where the hard trodden sales guy plays the 'I can go and ask my manager but I think he'll say no' game. All disappearing.
As for our economic health, not great. I speak to 20-30 people a day who're looking to remortgage. They're facing being hundreds a month worse off. Often high 4 or low 5 figures on credit cards. Lots with significant personal loans. The availability of debt is buffering the effect but, ultimately, that'll run out and then there's a problem. Best case is long term stagnation as default is avoided but years paying back debt rather than introducing new money into the wider economy.
- Escort
- Cavalier
- Fiesta
- Metro
- Sierra
- Maestro
- Astra
- Nova
- Volvo 340
How many of those were bought due to their steering feel and on-limit chassis behaviour, vs that as a senior sales rep you got a GLX, not a GL?
okgo said:
I’m obviously now the sort of person I would have been serving as a dealership all those years ago.
I wouldn’t dream of wasting a day trawling dealerships. I’d book test drives online and turn up when it suited me. Aimlessly walking about isn’t really something many folk of a younger age would do I think. Some will, and of course seeing things in the flesh is useful but it can be streamlined and indeed has. I’ve spoken to most of the big dealer groups via work and they’re all on the same mission. Digitise and essentially turn the automotive experience into what you’d expect from a digital service.
See Tesla for reference. I've got a test drive booked next Wednesday. Used an online form, the test drive appeared on my Tesla app and I uploaded front and back of my driver's license. You turn up, drive the car and they follow up with a online questionnaire.I wouldn’t dream of wasting a day trawling dealerships. I’d book test drives online and turn up when it suited me. Aimlessly walking about isn’t really something many folk of a younger age would do I think. Some will, and of course seeing things in the flesh is useful but it can be streamlined and indeed has. I’ve spoken to most of the big dealer groups via work and they’re all on the same mission. Digitise and essentially turn the automotive experience into what you’d expect from a digital service.
I don't wanna be faffed over, given numerous finance quotes or indeed drink their coffee. I wanna drive a Tesla Model Y to see if I like it or not.
RayDonovan said:
See Tesla for reference. I've got a test drive booked next Wednesday. Used an online form, the test drive appeared on my Tesla app and I uploaded front and back of my driver's license. You turn up, drive the car and they follow up with a online questionnaire.
I don't wanna be faffed over, given numerous finance quotes or indeed drink their coffee. I wanna drive a Tesla Model Y to see if I like it or not.
I turned up at a local Porsche dealer to look at a Cayman GTS they had in. Got told I could have a test drive once I had paid a deposit, I walked away.I don't wanna be faffed over, given numerous finance quotes or indeed drink their coffee. I wanna drive a Tesla Model Y to see if I like it or not.
I wasn’t killing time I am seriously looking to buy the right one.
RayDonovan said:
See Tesla for reference. I've got a test drive booked next Wednesday. Used an online form, the test drive appeared on my Tesla app and I uploaded front and back of my driver's license. You turn up, drive the car and they follow up with a online questionnaire.
I don't wanna be faffed over, given numerous finance quotes or indeed drink their coffee. I wanna drive a Tesla Model Y to see if I like it or not.
The reality:I don't wanna be faffed over, given numerous finance quotes or indeed drink their coffee. I wanna drive a Tesla Model Y to see if I like it or not.
Booked a model X test drive online, west London.
Turned up, took a long time for the sales person to arrive.
Sales person could not turn off fart mode. Knew less about the car than my children.
One tyre was half flat. Salesman unbothered.
Car was super dull.
Didn’t hear a word from Tesla afterwards. But would not have bought one anyway.
okgo said:
I’m obviously now the sort of person I would have been serving as a dealership all those years ago.
I wouldn’t dream of wasting a day trawling dealerships. I’d book test drives online and turn up when it suited me. Aimlessly walking about isn’t really something many folk of a younger age would do I think. Some will, and of course seeing things in the flesh is useful but it can be streamlined and indeed has. I’ve spoken to most of the big dealer groups via work and they’re all on the same mission. Digitise and essentially turn the automotive experience into what you’d expect from a digital service.
From the dealer side I can tell you that in person visits are by default a waste of time. It's very very rare that an on spec visit will convert to a sale and to be honest if someone mentions to me that they are on an old school tour to see 73 cars over a two week period I can't cater for it. We are always very busy with remote sales or at least people focused on the purchase of one particular car. Speculative test drives are out of the window too. Absolute waste of my time. I wouldn’t dream of wasting a day trawling dealerships. I’d book test drives online and turn up when it suited me. Aimlessly walking about isn’t really something many folk of a younger age would do I think. Some will, and of course seeing things in the flesh is useful but it can be streamlined and indeed has. I’ve spoken to most of the big dealer groups via work and they’re all on the same mission. Digitise and essentially turn the automotive experience into what you’d expect from a digital service.
So yes the industry is changing it does fry the minds of the old guard when you don't necessarily throw the red carpet out for a most tentative inquiry on a car. This by the way is not an excuse for staff being rude or tardy at all I always go to great lengths to explain why we don't offer routine test drives for example. This is for specialist performance stuff to do there's even less reason to be messing about on a daily driver.
You can do a lot of the research online, watch YouTube reviews and form an idea of the car you are looking to buy.
I do that but I still want to actually sit in one and see if I like it, check boot space, etc.
I spend very little time at dealerships and normally will be better informed than the salesman about the model I am looking at.
I just go to dealerships to check the car physically and to go through the detail of speeding it as I would like to then get a finance quote.
I do that but I still want to actually sit in one and see if I like it, check boot space, etc.
I spend very little time at dealerships and normally will be better informed than the salesman about the model I am looking at.
I just go to dealerships to check the car physically and to go through the detail of speeding it as I would like to then get a finance quote.
I nearly always turn up "on spec" at the dealer (after doing plenty of research), and always do a deal there and then.
I think I've only made remote contact with a dealer twice in 15 years. I knew what model I wanted, was deciding whether to buy pre-reg (300 miles away) or secondhand (45 miles away).
I think I've only made remote contact with a dealer twice in 15 years. I knew what model I wanted, was deciding whether to buy pre-reg (300 miles away) or secondhand (45 miles away).
Much of this echoes my experience looking at new Defender/RRS. Actually quite helpful to read as it's so different to when I last bought a car from a traditional dealer. Sales people would do near anything to help. Been in all 3 local dealerships now and was totally confused as to why no-one seemed interested in arranging test drive / taking order / even taking some details.
A few people I spoke to didn't know basic level of detail about the different car specifications.
I'd go as far as to say the dealer felt like an obstacle in making the purchase. With all the insurance mess added on I've just put it on hold for now and will see where things are later in year.
I'm moving from Tesla as they've limited interest in larger RHD (or having any driver controls!) but with original Tesla purchases the sales were so easy. Car spec simpler, staff knew the spec, test drive very easy (they gave me a car overnight no problems), no pressure, no messing with price etc. Once happy I placed order online in my own time.
This sales model has to be way ahead and where manufacturers want to get to. Tesla dropping ball in a big way now though IMO.
With wider picture I think UK is devoid of a business strategy (or any strategy!). Many SME owners have just had enough and are looking for an exit or change in some way. COVID and Brexit have taken a toll and running a business already quite difficult. I guess recession is often a time of opportunity but we're badly lacking on skills to capitalise. Young people are trapped on the property wheel and so much effort goes into mortgage or rent. Times have changed and working evenings and weekends is no longer a thing.
The idea of taking a risk and starting a business must feel very different to when I started out 20 odd years ago. It seemed like a calculated risk for me and I really felt like I was always moving forward the more I worked. House prices have really made a right mess on top of everything else.
On skills front we've many school leavers who had no computing teacher at high school. I struggle to get my head around that.
A few people I spoke to didn't know basic level of detail about the different car specifications.
I'd go as far as to say the dealer felt like an obstacle in making the purchase. With all the insurance mess added on I've just put it on hold for now and will see where things are later in year.
I'm moving from Tesla as they've limited interest in larger RHD (or having any driver controls!) but with original Tesla purchases the sales were so easy. Car spec simpler, staff knew the spec, test drive very easy (they gave me a car overnight no problems), no pressure, no messing with price etc. Once happy I placed order online in my own time.
This sales model has to be way ahead and where manufacturers want to get to. Tesla dropping ball in a big way now though IMO.
With wider picture I think UK is devoid of a business strategy (or any strategy!). Many SME owners have just had enough and are looking for an exit or change in some way. COVID and Brexit have taken a toll and running a business already quite difficult. I guess recession is often a time of opportunity but we're badly lacking on skills to capitalise. Young people are trapped on the property wheel and so much effort goes into mortgage or rent. Times have changed and working evenings and weekends is no longer a thing.
The idea of taking a risk and starting a business must feel very different to when I started out 20 odd years ago. It seemed like a calculated risk for me and I really felt like I was always moving forward the more I worked. House prices have really made a right mess on top of everything else.
On skills front we've many school leavers who had no computing teacher at high school. I struggle to get my head around that.
Forester1965 said:
Cars are morphing into a white goods/electronics type purchase. The niceties of steering feel and on-limit chassis behaviour secondary to the number of colours you can select for the interior LEDs and the size in inches of the central screen.
Then you have the internetisation of purchasing behaviour. No negotiating. Bargaining over price is a dying skill. You just accept the price and fill in the form. The car dealership dance where the hard trodden sales guy plays the 'I can go and ask my manager but I think he'll say no' game. All disappearing.
As for our economic health, not great. I speak to 20-30 people a day who're looking to remortgage. They're facing being hundreds a month worse off. Often high 4 or low 5 figures on credit cards. Lots with significant personal loans. The availability of debt is buffering the effect but, ultimately, that'll run out and then there's a problem. Best case is long term stagnation as default is avoided but years paying back debt rather than introducing new money into the wider economy.
I agree. The majority of online/ YouTube reviews seem to spend an awful long time discussing the tech, the actual driving bit kept to a minimum, often with not a single mention of ride comfort etc. (which I consider reasonably important because I'm buying a car, not a laptop) I collect my new (to me) car tomorrow after months of agonising. I hate the process. I knew roughly what I wanted, but deciding which variables to settle on, but nothin really appealed to me. Between petrol and diesel I decided on petrol, because I'm a reasonably low mileage driver and most of the problems on forums related to diesel models, I'd rather take the hit at the fuel pumps. A couple of cars I discounted because of the risk of theft/insurance premiums (Lexus RX450h etc). It'll be a relief to get into the new car, so I can stop looking. I did manage to get an additional £1000 on my part ex having failed at two other dealers. The brilliance of internet shopping is the ability to compare prices and spec. It makes a big difference, especially if you are willing to travel a bit. I still drove 100 miles for a test drive before buying.Then you have the internetisation of purchasing behaviour. No negotiating. Bargaining over price is a dying skill. You just accept the price and fill in the form. The car dealership dance where the hard trodden sales guy plays the 'I can go and ask my manager but I think he'll say no' game. All disappearing.
As for our economic health, not great. I speak to 20-30 people a day who're looking to remortgage. They're facing being hundreds a month worse off. Often high 4 or low 5 figures on credit cards. Lots with significant personal loans. The availability of debt is buffering the effect but, ultimately, that'll run out and then there's a problem. Best case is long term stagnation as default is avoided but years paying back debt rather than introducing new money into the wider economy.
Edited by lornemalvo on Sunday 10th March 17:15
Ref: Car Dealers,
A few months back I was passing my local Maxus dealer and unusually for me, I had a little time to spare, so I popped in to have a Quick Look at the eDeliver-3, and how its load space compares to my current Renault Trafic. Simply reading xxM3 means nothing to me. I made it clear to the sales guy I wasn’t in a position to buy today.
He couldn’t have been more helpful.
He suggested that I pull my Trafic up alongside a Maxus so I could directly compare the load space side-by-side, and upon finding out that I’d never driven an electric before, offered my a brief ten minute test drive.
Top marks to him, and hopefully later on this year, he’s the first person I’ll be calling to buy a Maxus.
McDonald’s,
I haven’t had one of those since 2017.
My daughter and I were driving past one the other day and decided to get a couple of Big Mac meals…..
£17.38
f#ck that !
We went to a local sandwich shop instead.
Work;
Busy. Insanely busy.
February is traditionally dead. Not this year. February was up nearly 50% on the last two years, and was even a touch busier than November, which is peak Christmas period.
A month or so back I put a tender in for delivering newspapers to supermarkets, petrol stations, newsagents etc.
I put a really high bid in as frankly I didn’t really want the work, (I start in just a few minutes at 03:00, then a full day delivering parcels).
To my amazement, I got the call yesterday asking me to start today.
I’m conflicted. I want the money, but not so keen on the hours.
Once the parcels starts ramps-up again in April, I’m going to be doing 20 hour days, 7 days a week.
I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew.
A few months back I was passing my local Maxus dealer and unusually for me, I had a little time to spare, so I popped in to have a Quick Look at the eDeliver-3, and how its load space compares to my current Renault Trafic. Simply reading xxM3 means nothing to me. I made it clear to the sales guy I wasn’t in a position to buy today.
He couldn’t have been more helpful.
He suggested that I pull my Trafic up alongside a Maxus so I could directly compare the load space side-by-side, and upon finding out that I’d never driven an electric before, offered my a brief ten minute test drive.
Top marks to him, and hopefully later on this year, he’s the first person I’ll be calling to buy a Maxus.
McDonald’s,
I haven’t had one of those since 2017.
My daughter and I were driving past one the other day and decided to get a couple of Big Mac meals…..
£17.38
f#ck that !We went to a local sandwich shop instead.
Work;
Busy. Insanely busy.
February is traditionally dead. Not this year. February was up nearly 50% on the last two years, and was even a touch busier than November, which is peak Christmas period.
A month or so back I put a tender in for delivering newspapers to supermarkets, petrol stations, newsagents etc.
I put a really high bid in as frankly I didn’t really want the work, (I start in just a few minutes at 03:00, then a full day delivering parcels).
To my amazement, I got the call yesterday asking me to start today.
I’m conflicted. I want the money, but not so keen on the hours.
Once the parcels starts ramps-up again in April, I’m going to be doing 20 hour days, 7 days a week.
I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew.
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