Customer in administration
Discussion
Our Invoice states 'Title & Risk' the goods shall remain the property of 'us' until paid for in full. And goes on about charging interest.
Does that help?
Do I have any rights with speaking to the administrators? At the moment they have taken my details and will call me back, however I don't think that will be anytime soon!
Does that help?
Do I have any rights with speaking to the administrators? At the moment they have taken my details and will call me back, however I don't think that will be anytime soon!
rdjohn said:
A salutary lesson I learned in the recession of the early 1990s.
If an established business suddenly changes supplier, it maybe because he has to because his credit and goodwill with the former has just run out.
Good luck.
Too true... The number of times at the minute I get a request out the blue for £2000-3000 of product which goes very suddenly quiet when I ask for (even part) payment prior to delivery. If an established business suddenly changes supplier, it maybe because he has to because his credit and goodwill with the former has just run out.
Good luck.
Best of luck OP.
Ok thank you very much for your replies.
Things are moving quickly which is great, I have been sent a 'Title Claim' questionnaire.
It asks for standard things like copies of invoices, statements, how can I identify my goods, how long a supplier - all good.
They want my solicitors details - I have one for employment issues and one for property however not for this kind of thing - is it worth looking at or do I need to give these details at all?
And the second question they want to know 'Please include T's & C's and identify the clause which we are relying' and then 'please evidence how the terms & conditions were incorporated into the contracts? '
We have no contract in place or sent them our terms and conditions.
Our Invoices say that we retain title and our website says:
Ownership of the goods shall not pass to you until we have received in full all sums due to us in respect of the goods.
We shall be entitled to recover payment for the goods notwithstanding that ownership of the goods has not passed from us.
From the date of delivery of the goods to you until ownership of the goods has passed to you, you are responsible for taking all necessary steps to prevent damage, loss or harm to the goods and you shall insure the goods at your expense and for our benefit (noting our interest on the insurance policy) with a reputable insurer.
If we reasonably believe that you are about to become insolvent and we have not yet received full payment for the goods, we may take the goods back at your expense. You authorise us or our agents or representatives to enter your premises in order to take back the goods or to inspect the goods in this event.
The amount i'm trying to get back is a little over £15k to give you an idea.
I was going to answer all questions print every invoice and send to the administrators today. Is it worth getting legal advice or can anyone help me if the above is the right thing to do? I don't to trip up on a technicality by including or excluding something in this questionnaire. Nor do I want to make myself more work than necessary!
HELP
Things are moving quickly which is great, I have been sent a 'Title Claim' questionnaire.
It asks for standard things like copies of invoices, statements, how can I identify my goods, how long a supplier - all good.
They want my solicitors details - I have one for employment issues and one for property however not for this kind of thing - is it worth looking at or do I need to give these details at all?
And the second question they want to know 'Please include T's & C's and identify the clause which we are relying' and then 'please evidence how the terms & conditions were incorporated into the contracts? '
We have no contract in place or sent them our terms and conditions.
Our Invoices say that we retain title and our website says:
Ownership of the goods shall not pass to you until we have received in full all sums due to us in respect of the goods.
We shall be entitled to recover payment for the goods notwithstanding that ownership of the goods has not passed from us.
From the date of delivery of the goods to you until ownership of the goods has passed to you, you are responsible for taking all necessary steps to prevent damage, loss or harm to the goods and you shall insure the goods at your expense and for our benefit (noting our interest on the insurance policy) with a reputable insurer.
If we reasonably believe that you are about to become insolvent and we have not yet received full payment for the goods, we may take the goods back at your expense. You authorise us or our agents or representatives to enter your premises in order to take back the goods or to inspect the goods in this event.
The amount i'm trying to get back is a little over £15k to give you an idea.
I was going to answer all questions print every invoice and send to the administrators today. Is it worth getting legal advice or can anyone help me if the above is the right thing to do? I don't to trip up on a technicality by including or excluding something in this questionnaire. Nor do I want to make myself more work than necessary!
HELP
It's multiple locations so not very quickly but it can be done.
Can I legally do that though? Do i give people paperwork or just rock in and start taking stock - I guess the police will be called. What if they start hiding stock out the back? What powers do I have to take it?
Obviously want to know my rights before I start!
Can I legally do that though? Do i give people paperwork or just rock in and start taking stock - I guess the police will be called. What if they start hiding stock out the back? What powers do I have to take it?
Obviously want to know my rights before I start!
VEIGHT said:
It's multiple locations so not very quickly but it can be done.
Can I legally do that though? Do i give people paperwork or just rock in and start taking stock - I guess the police will be called. What if they start hiding stock out the back? What powers do I have to take it?
Obviously want to know my rights before I start!
If the police are called and it looks like they are going to get involved then you walk away, leaving the goods there. Same if the staff start getting punchy.Can I legally do that though? Do i give people paperwork or just rock in and start taking stock - I guess the police will be called. What if they start hiding stock out the back? What powers do I have to take it?
Obviously want to know my rights before I start!
No harm in trying for 15K.
If the administrators subsequently prove legal ownership then you can always give it them back.
The longer you wait the more chance there is of any stock remaining being sold to someone else.
The questions from the administrator are just delaying tactics while they try to find a buyer, they have no use for your solicitors name and address.
A tip for the future, we have a very simple account application form that states the retention of title terms and we demand a valid signature before any credit is given to anyone. We have only needed to rely on it twice in the last 15 years but we were successful both times.
However I cannot reiterate enough, you have to be quick. Take your invoices, your title clause, possibly pictures of your goods and their packaging and get round to where the goods are, pronto. At the very least you will be able to mark and record what stock is there at that point for future arguments.
The questions from the administrator are just delaying tactics while they try to find a buyer, they have no use for your solicitors name and address.
A tip for the future, we have a very simple account application form that states the retention of title terms and we demand a valid signature before any credit is given to anyone. We have only needed to rely on it twice in the last 15 years but we were successful both times.
However I cannot reiterate enough, you have to be quick. Take your invoices, your title clause, possibly pictures of your goods and their packaging and get round to where the goods are, pronto. At the very least you will be able to mark and record what stock is there at that point for future arguments.
I appreciate the advice of going there and getting it. My issue is it's across 14 or so stores. All corners of the UK.
I realised that I have FSB legal help (who I know in the past are very cautious with their advice for obvious reasons).
They have stated that unless I have proof of them accepting the Terms of the Title clause then I have little to go on.
If I turn up, I would argue with the store manager who would call the Head Office and they would advise to not let me have the stock. If I get one store's worth then they will certainly remove or move the stock in the rest so I feel that it won't be a good exercise.
What the poster says above is so right, signed terms and conditions especially of title is really important. I certainly won't be making that mistake again.
What a rubbish couple of days.
I'm now going to get someone to listen to about 3 hours worth of telephone calls to see if anything worth noting was mentioned.
I realised that I have FSB legal help (who I know in the past are very cautious with their advice for obvious reasons).
They have stated that unless I have proof of them accepting the Terms of the Title clause then I have little to go on.
If I turn up, I would argue with the store manager who would call the Head Office and they would advise to not let me have the stock. If I get one store's worth then they will certainly remove or move the stock in the rest so I feel that it won't be a good exercise.
What the poster says above is so right, signed terms and conditions especially of title is really important. I certainly won't be making that mistake again.
What a rubbish couple of days.
I'm now going to get someone to listen to about 3 hours worth of telephone calls to see if anything worth noting was mentioned.
You're wasting your time. Read what's written above about insolvency - it's a free for all. If the company is in admin then the staff won't care. In fact the staff are probably nicking your stock to sell themselves on the black market. Just get in your truck/van and go and round it up right now otherwise you can kiss goodbye to your £15k. Ignore any threats about calling the police. Police won't care because it's a civil matter and even if it was something to do with them the most they would do is put down their doughnuts after 3 weeks of thinking about it and issuing your customer with a crime reference number.
Go and get your stuff right now. If you sit there any longer worrying about it your 15k will have gone.
Go and get your stuff right now. If you sit there any longer worrying about it your 15k will have gone.
I would go and get the stuff asap. As previous posters have mentioned it can turn into a free for all. One of our competitors went into administration and we visited the site, spoke to the administrators and agreed a deal to buy all of the stock. Signed legal contracts and paid the money via solicitors etc. On the first day we turned up to start clearing the stock numerous people turned up throughout the day wanting to take things and buy this and that and said they were having X stock etc etc. It was literally a case of battling people away. As far as i was concerned we had bought everything within the walls of the warehouse so i told these other people to take a run and jump. This was an administration being handled by KPMG as well!
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