so, if I wanted to become a trader/broker...what do I need?-
Discussion
in terms of qualifications?
I hold mortgage advice qualifications (CeMAP) and financial advice qualifications (FPC) but i'm looking to make a move either to a city based high net worth IFA company (mucho £££ but not much else) or alternatively, i've always wanted to be at the sharp end rather than in retail financial services...(mucho mucho £££ but also personal satisfaction) and I would like to be city/docklands based and do something derivatives based...looking for inspiration on how to go about it, what I need to do qualification wise to be proficient, where to look, that sort of thing
any help would be appreciated city types!
>> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 1st March 14:49
I hold mortgage advice qualifications (CeMAP) and financial advice qualifications (FPC) but i'm looking to make a move either to a city based high net worth IFA company (mucho £££ but not much else) or alternatively, i've always wanted to be at the sharp end rather than in retail financial services...(mucho mucho £££ but also personal satisfaction) and I would like to be city/docklands based and do something derivatives based...looking for inspiration on how to go about it, what I need to do qualification wise to be proficient, where to look, that sort of thing
any help would be appreciated city types!
>> Edited by minimax on Wednesday 1st March 14:49
As Shady says difficult to get in these days, one way is getting into a smaller firm or fund....or if you know somone who can at least get you through thr door.....
Having Fsa, series 7 & 63 I took the securities institute Invest mgmt certificate a few years ago in the UK....there were quite a few people sitting the exams who were yet to get employed, it certainly is competitive. Good Luck!
Having Fsa, series 7 & 63 I took the securities institute Invest mgmt certificate a few years ago in the UK....there were quite a few people sitting the exams who were yet to get employed, it certainly is competitive. Good Luck!
i was discussing interviews with my brokers the other day, and the interview for a new board boy (someone who wrote prices on a board) i.e. someone straight from A-Levels went like this..
Broker: 'Can you write down 1/4 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, lemme think.. is it 0.25'
Broker: 'Yeah well done, can you write down 1/8 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, we didn't do 1/8ths at school, sorry..'
Broker: 'Ok fine... can you drink?'
Candidate: 'Hell yeah'
Broker: 'Ok, you got the job'
Candidate: 'Coool'
Start at the bottom and work up.
What products do you want to trade/broker for? You mention derivatives, but what?
>> Edited by wtd on Thursday 2nd March 07:59
Broker: 'Can you write down 1/4 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, lemme think.. is it 0.25'
Broker: 'Yeah well done, can you write down 1/8 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, we didn't do 1/8ths at school, sorry..'
Broker: 'Ok fine... can you drink?'
Candidate: 'Hell yeah'
Broker: 'Ok, you got the job'
Candidate: 'Coool'
Start at the bottom and work up.
What products do you want to trade/broker for? You mention derivatives, but what?
>> Edited by wtd on Thursday 2nd March 07:59
wtd said:
i was discussing interviews with my brokers the other day, and the interview for a new board boy (someone who wrote prices on a board) i.e. someone straight from A-Levels went like this..
Broker: 'Can you write down 1/4 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, lemme think.. is it 0.25'
Broker: 'Yeah well done, can you write down 1/8 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, we didn't do 1/8ths at school, sorry..'
Broker: 'Ok fine... can you drink?'
Candidate: 'Hell yeah'
Broker: 'Ok, you got the job'
Candidate: 'Coool'
Start at the bottom and work up.
....
The sad thing is, if he isn't already, he will soon probably earn more than the majority of adults, the worlds gone mad
. Best of luck with the search, my sisters eldest is just finishing economics with a predicted 2:1 (too much rugby/drinking for the 1:1) and as a 21 year old is looking at 40-45K starting, I think with a US bank.
>> Edited by HarryW on Thursday 2nd March 08:18
clubsport said:
As Shady says difficult to get in these days, one way is getting into a smaller firm or fund....or if you know somone who can at least get you through thr door.....
Having Fsa, series 7 & 63 I took the securities institute Invest mgmt certificate a few years ago in the UK....there were quite a few people sitting the exams who were yet to get employed, it certainly is competitive. Good Luck!
thanks..might investigate those certificates later today
they'd be handy even if I stayed in my current industry HarryW said:
i was discussing interviews with my brokers the other day, and the interview for a new board boy (someone who wrote prices on a board) i.e. someone straight from A-Levels went like this..
Broker: 'Can you write down 1/4 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, lemme think.. is it 0.25'
Broker: 'Yeah well done, can you write down 1/8 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, we didn't do 1/8ths at school, sorry..'
Broker: 'Ok fine... can you drink?'
Candidate: 'Hell yeah'
Broker: 'Ok, you got the job'
Candidate: 'Coool'
Start at the bottom and work up.
....
The sad thing is, if he isn't already, he will soon probably earn more than the majority of adults, the worlds gone mad
Best of luck with the search, my sisters eldest is just finishing economics with a predicted 2:1 (too much rugby/drinking for the 1:1) and as a 21 year old is looking at 40-45K starting, I think with a US bank.
>> Edited by HarryW on Thursday 2nd March 08:18
hmm.. 40-45k would represent a reasonable pay cut at the moment but it's something that wouldn't necessarily annoy me as it's as you say, a starting point...
I need to do a lot more research! minimax said:
i was discussing interviews with my brokers the other day, and the interview for a new board boy (someone who wrote prices on a board) i.e. someone straight from A-Levels went like this..
Broker: 'Can you write down 1/4 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, lemme think.. is it 0.25'
Broker: 'Yeah well done, can you write down 1/8 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, we didn't do 1/8ths at school, sorry..'
Broker: 'Ok fine... can you drink?'
Candidate: 'Hell yeah'
Broker: 'Ok, you got the job'
Candidate: 'Coool'
Start at the bottom and work up.
....
The sad thing is, if he isn't already, he will soon probably earn more than the majority of adults, the worlds gone mad
Best of luck with the search, my sisters eldest is just finishing economics with a predicted 2:1 (too much rugby/drinking for the 1:1) and as a 21 year old is looking at 40-45K starting, I think with a US bank.
>> Edited by HarryW on Thursday 2nd March 08:18
hmm.. 40-45k would represent a reasonable pay cut at the moment but it's something that wouldn't necessarily annoy me as it's as you say, a starting point...
It's been mentioned before but in the real world 40-45K for a 21 year old as a first job is obscene. There are not many industries that pay anything like that amount.
The city is detatched from the real world when it comes to pay scales. I understand the arguements about the sums involved, however gambling with other peoples money is not a life endagering or threatening position and just adds another Mr percenter (shylock) to every walk of business. I know it is a business in its own right in some area's, but it is a self serving one, which has been generated over the years into one that is depended upon by economies
. Not religious myself but the analgy to the money lenders in the bible comes to mind . Long hour are also banded about as reason for the pay, I've never bought into that theory myself, plenty of people work longer and harder hours for a lot lot less. Not sure of your age or current pay scale Mini but best of luck to you. Money is obviously a key driver and I find it slightly incredulous you feel that is low figure for a 21 year old
. You may note that I'm of the school that thinks that city pay doesn't truely reflect the added value to the country. If that was solely the case then the computer programmes that now do a similar job should cost a few billion to purchase
. Apologies for the rant
HarryW said:
i was discussing interviews with my brokers the other day, and the interview for a new board boy (someone who wrote prices on a board) i.e. someone straight from A-Levels went like this..
Broker: 'Can you write down 1/4 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, lemme think.. is it 0.25'
Broker: 'Yeah well done, can you write down 1/8 as a decimal'
Candidate: 'Erm, we didn't do 1/8ths at school, sorry..'
Broker: 'Ok fine... can you drink?'
Candidate: 'Hell yeah'
Broker: 'Ok, you got the job'
Candidate: 'Coool'
Start at the bottom and work up.
....
The sad thing is, if he isn't already, he will soon probably earn more than the majority of adults, the worlds gone mad
Best of luck with the search, my sisters eldest is just finishing economics with a predicted 2:1 (too much rugby/drinking for the 1:1) and as a 21 year old is looking at 40-45K starting, I think with a US bank.
>> Edited by HarryW on Thursday 2nd March 08:18
hmm.. 40-45k would represent a reasonable pay cut at the moment but it's something that wouldn't necessarily annoy me as it's as you say, a starting point...
It's been mentioned before but in the real world 40-45K for a 21 year old as a first job is obscene. There are not many industries that pay anything like that amount.
The city is detatched from the real world when it comes to pay scales. I understand the arguements about the sums involved, however gambling with other peoples money is not a life endagering or threatening position and just adds another Mr percenter (shylock) to every walk of business. I know it is a business in its own right in some area's, but it is a self serving one, which has been generated over the years into one that is depended upon by economies
Not sure of your age or current pay scale Mini but best of luck to you. Money is obviously a key driver and I find it slightly incredulous you feel that is low figure for a 21 year old
You may note that I'm of the school that thinks that city pay doesn't truely reflect the added value to the country. If that was solely the case then the computer programmes that now do a similar job should cost a few billion to purchase
Apologies for the rant
I understand all that you say, I didn't mean to suggest that 45k at 21 is not a lot, frankly it's an amazing amount of money!
at 21 I was earning about 12k (as a student but even so..)
i'm 24 now and I suppose taking something like the figure mentioned above might knock 10-15k ish off my current arrangement but i'm looking for my next move at the moment in order to move on to something more challenging and better paid and as the received wisdom has it - always look two steps ahead!
it looks like i've some thinking to do..I have a few options available to me but making up my mind to jump is the main hurdle!
Minimax, i wouldn't get excited about earning megabucks in the city straight away....you are going to have to prove yourself to be given more responsibility to get the chance. It may good earnings potential a few years down the line. The new grads are getting paid well up front so they can lock the good ones in....you will be severely tested for the first couple of years to see if you can make the grade. Starting pay for top grades is high at the mom, as there are far fewer applicants keen to get into investment banking than there were 10 years ago.
There are always some however who get paid high from the off,,,,we had a grad a few years ago...who came up with a new derivatives structure which made a packet, next thing we knew he was headhunted by another American bank for a 7 figure golden handshake at the age of 23...Git!
There are always some however who get paid high from the off,,,,we had a grad a few years ago...who came up with a new derivatives structure which made a packet, next thing we knew he was headhunted by another American bank for a 7 figure golden handshake at the age of 23...Git!
clubsport said:Yes, but Minimax isn't some wet-behind-the-ears grad though. He is a successful IFA / mortgage advisor so that's got to count for something, surely?
Minimax, i wouldn't get excited about earning megabucks in the city straight away....you are going to have to prove yourself to be given more responsibility to get the chance. It may good earnings potential a few years down the line. The new grads are getting paid well up front so they can lock the good ones in....you will be severely tested for the first couple of years to see if you can make the grade.
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 2nd March 19:13
JonRB said:
Minimax, i wouldn't get excited about earning megabucks in the city straight away....you are going to have to prove yourself to be given more responsibility to get the chance. It may good earnings potential a few years down the line. The new grads are getting paid well up front so they can lock the good ones in....you will be severely tested for the first couple of years to see if you can make the grade.
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 2nd March 19:13
Really? completely different world....and if you go into the city thinking you know it all...the harder the lesson.
clubsport said:
Really? completely different world....and if you go into the city thinking you know it all...the harder the lesson.
yes, as clubsport says don't come in with a know it all attitude, you'll last about an hour. Be willing to learn, listen and start at the bottom. It can mean swallowing some pride to get on.
After about 5 years experience, make a move to another firm and then you might start earing a decent wage.
I know our grads start on 25k with six months probation period. It's very competative and extremely difficult to get your feet through doors nowdays i'm afraid.
clubsport said:Fair enough. Although I'd maintain that someone who has worked for a living before and has a grasp of an area of finance, albeit mortgages, has got to be worth more than some snotty-nosed grad.
Really? completely different world....and if you go into the city thinking you know it all...the harder the lesson.
But it's nothing to do with me, other than the fact that I'm using Minimax for a mortgage at the moment and think he's a top bloke.
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 2nd March 20:45
There you go, I am sure he is a decent fellow. ...On a top level trading floor, mortgage advice is next to useless...the assumption is you will get paid enough through your bonus to buy the house outright 
That is part of the reason grads are taken on,,,to be moulded into what you need,,,,make them hungry to work hard and succeed.......genuinely makes "the apprentice" look like nursery school!....Well that is London,....Wall Street involves selling at least part of your soul to get on.......I would add a smiley to end this post, but it really would not be appropriate.
>> Edited by clubsport on Thursday 2nd March 20:58
That is part of the reason grads are taken on,,,to be moulded into what you need,,,,make them hungry to work hard and succeed.......genuinely makes "the apprentice" look like nursery school!....Well that is London,....Wall Street involves selling at least part of your soul to get on.......I would add a smiley to end this post, but it really would not be appropriate.
>> Edited by clubsport on Thursday 2nd March 20:58
clubsport said:
There you go, I am sure he is a decent fellow. ...On a top level trading floor, mortgage advice is next to useless...the assumption is you will get paid enough through your bonus to buy the house outright
That is part of the reason grads are taken on,,,to be moulded into what you need,,,,make them hungry to work hard and succeed.......genuinely makes "the apprentice" look like nursery school!....Well that is London,....Wall Street involves selling at least part of your soul to get on.......I would add a smiley to end this post, but it really would not be appropriate.
>> Edited by clubsport on Thursday 2nd March 20:58
Still potentially obscene amounts though
, I really cannot get a grasp of the figures involved myself, a golden hello of 7 figures . I've known people to sell their arse, quite literally, for less . loafer said:
out of intrest for those working in decent banking jobs how did you start out? what was your first job and how did you work up ?
Not exactly banking, but I work in the industry on the 'Buy side' for a Macro Hedge Fund. Got my first break in the City at 21 by pure chance as I had moved down to London looking to get into IT. First opurtunity was as at a newish CTA as a computer operator
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