Income Shifting...........another way to get the freelancers

[trescoman]

For all you people out there that work for themselves and share the burden and rewards with your partner.............the IR is after your money, so sign up here to help fight the barstewards

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IncomeShifting1/

The IR lost at the House of Lords (HMRC-v-Artic Systems), and then proudly announced that they were going to draw up a new paper...............and of course they have and it's far more reaching than S660a

Go on sign up you know you want to

Bob

[trescoman]

briSk said:

although more from the point of view of freelance being more like employed rather than 'a business' not that people shouldn't try and not pay any more tax than they need to

Totally disagree with you, I choose when and where to work, 99.9% of employees don’t!

And try having a year off work due to a car accident, and then see where the risk sits.

If you are an employee, great, sick pay kicks in, but try getting cover for that as a freelancer and see what the cost is, and then you still got to PROVE you ain’t fit for work, employee’s don’t

of course, it's one of choice, and the one I chose

[trescoman]

briSk said:

Noger said:

Employed as in - no holiday pay, no sick pay, no redundancy pay, a days notice to pack your bags and not legally employed anyway (thingy v southern water) ?

Riiiight, I get that.

i am entirely in agreement with the lack of notice on being made redundant. most of the other things seem to be factored into the higher rates when compared to salaried staff when comparing like for like.

Have you actually tried being a freelancer or you one of those that moans about the freelancers rates, but don't actually know what the costs, burdens and risks are ?

Apologies if it's a bit short of me, but I hear this argument all the time.........!!!

Edited by trescoman on Thursday 3rd January 14:22

[trescoman]

Parrot of Doom said:

You should try being self employed with a diary completely empty. You'll soon understand what stress is all about. I've just lost about £4000 of work over 2008, it isn't all rosey.

I'm sitting here, hopefully being paid (time will tell with this client), awaiting them to get off the pot and re-fire the project up again after the dreaded xmas break, so I can get going......................not much fun this !!

[trescoman]

briSk said:

has anyone ever worked out the equivalency of salried vs 'self-employed' wages? my fag packet calculations seem to generally put a fairly low value on the alleged security of working for someone else. (plus i'll be honest i am assuming 'limited liability').

Yes I did the calc's before I took the jump, and yes it's worth it, providing you do your ground work properly, but even then G Brown always has ways of making one feel uncomfortable.

One has to work on the basis of 260 working days pa, less BH's (8) and leave (if afforded) and for god's sake don't get ill :-(

[trescoman]

briSk said:

you can stick around. at last a 'new starter' who wants to discuss things and not just 'keyboard battle'.

that made me chuckle, I feel most honoured !!

[trescoman]

Ean218 said:

Noger said:

Employed as in - no holiday pay, no sick pay, no redundancy pay, a days notice to pack your bags and not legally employed anyway (thingy v southern water) ?

Speaking as an employer and an employee:

Holiday pay is worth about 11% of salary.

Sick pay is discretionary apart from pitiful SSP after 3 days which is fully paid for by the employer.

Statutory redundancy pay is hardly anything unless you work somewhere for years and even then they can go bust and you get nothing. Ditto notice.

Employers have to pay approx 10% NICs on top of salaries.

On that basis, along with a factor for job insecurity, it would probably be fair to pay a "freelancer" approx 20-30% more than equivalent employees. However if they don't pay the same amount of tax, or worse, very much less tax, then the differential starts to look very wrong..

That is the reason GB wants to get his pound of flesh and why the rest of the country don't give a toss about it.

If you are going to cite all the "costs" at least cover them all, i.e. pensions, insurances Co and protection, health care, training, computers, software, (after all, we are a business !!) accountants fee's, professional fee's, stationary, etc.

I think your 20-30% may be a bit off, I too have done the calc's, however it does have its benefits !!

[trescoman]

kryten22uk said:

trescoman said:

And try having a year off work due to a car accident, and then see where the risk sits.

..the risk sits with the insurance company. Thats what Income Protection is for. I bought it and think its quite reasonably priced.

(but then I do create and price these products for the insurance co's, so i'm biased! )

Never trust one again, they wiggled out of payment, the details are not necessary here, but I'll never have Income Protection again...............insurance companies ugh !!

and that includes the third party insurers acting on behalf of the driver (prosecuted) who caused the accident, what a bunch of $%$%ers, 2 years hence (24 days time) and now where near any real money for loss of earnings, costs or injuries !!

Thats why I'm strongly in favour of signing the petition, we take our choices and take the risks and rewards, but GB & HNRC keep changing the rules and that is not fair...........period.

First its lets all incorporate, and the first 10% is tax free, then the 10% is taken away, and the tax rates are increased, then its lets attack the husbands/wives teams, lose that and then lets change the rules. However income shifting isn’t allowed anymore, except when you get devoiced/separated, then she(he) CAN have half (or more)………..hmmmmm, good old GB.