Discussion
Any recommendations for a useful/active linux forum?
I'm rather out of touch with linux having not used it for ten years or so. I'm playing with Ubuntu which appears to be very good, but has gone a bit windozy; a lot of wizards and utilities to 'make things simple' but which rather get in the way of doing things properly and not allowing me to understand what's happening. I'm more of a vi or emacs man than these new fangled 'graphical' text editors IYSWIM.
Cheers,
Grover
I'm rather out of touch with linux having not used it for ten years or so. I'm playing with Ubuntu which appears to be very good, but has gone a bit windozy; a lot of wizards and utilities to 'make things simple' but which rather get in the way of doing things properly and not allowing me to understand what's happening. I'm more of a vi or emacs man than these new fangled 'graphical' text editors IYSWIM.
Cheers,
Grover
Get yerself over to Ars Technica - the forums there are excellent though they don't tolerate newbies well, and there are some very rude keyboard warriors who like to participate in dick-waving contests about who knows the most. But mostly, there are really informed people there.
The Linux forum is here
HTH
The Linux forum is here
HTH
You're probably sick of me by now
Ubuntu is a very popular distribution partly because it's made everything nice and 'easy' to use (read wizards...)
Have you considered a more basic distro such as Debian. It's the same as Ubuntu under the hood (Ubuntu is based on Debian), but it doesn't have all the fancy GUI stuff unless you explicitly install it. Debian might be quite a big jump though if you've been out of it for a few years.
I am quite biased as I've been using Debian for the past 5+ years and I don't really understand all this new-fangled GUI stuff.
Ubuntu is a very popular distribution partly because it's made everything nice and 'easy' to use (read wizards...)
Have you considered a more basic distro such as Debian. It's the same as Ubuntu under the hood (Ubuntu is based on Debian), but it doesn't have all the fancy GUI stuff unless you explicitly install it. Debian might be quite a big jump though if you've been out of it for a few years.
I am quite biased as I've been using Debian for the past 5+ years and I don't really understand all this new-fangled GUI stuff.
It's all a bit of a jump really, whether I jump forwards or backwards is the problem. 
My linux experience was slakware which was downloaded onto eight or ten floppies! None of your X-windows then, unless you were rich & lucky enough to have a 386 with more then 1MB RAM. Them were the days, eh?
I'm only playing with ubuntu because I've recently gotten a mac and was really quite impressed by it - being a cheapskate, I wouldn't buy one for home but these new linux distros seem pretty much the same - but free!
My linux experience was slakware which was downloaded onto eight or ten floppies! None of your X-windows then, unless you were rich & lucky enough to have a 386 with more then 1MB RAM. Them were the days, eh?
I'm only playing with ubuntu because I've recently gotten a mac and was really quite impressed by it - being a cheapskate, I wouldn't buy one for home but these new linux distros seem pretty much the same - but free!
If you like pain, scrolling compiles and generally waiting for things to happen.
Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards It's Debian with a pretty front end.
Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards
It's Debian with a pretty front end. ThePassenger said:
If you like pain, scrolling compiles and generally waiting for things to happen.
Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards It's Debian with a pretty front end.
Yeah. I put Gentoo on a Flybook (Transmeta Crusoe CPU.....) and the compiling took ages. Enough time to write up an entire website about it Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards
It's Debian with a pretty front end. cyberface said:
ThePassenger said:
If you like pain, scrolling compiles and generally waiting for things to happen.
Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards It's Debian with a pretty front end.
Yeah. I put Gentoo on a Flybook (Transmeta Crusoe CPU.....) and the compiling took ages. Enough time to write up an entire website about it Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards
It's Debian with a pretty front end. Probably hit the same problem as my VIA C3, ikkle 64kbit cache gets swamped and the whole lot grinds to a halt. -0s (or is it -Os?) can help as can setting the march statment as close as possible.
You may now return to your regular chatting.
ThePassenger said:
cyberface said:
ThePassenger said:
If you like pain, scrolling compiles and generally waiting for things to happen.
Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards It's Debian with a pretty front end.
Yeah. I put Gentoo on a Flybook (Transmeta Crusoe CPU.....) and the compiling took ages. Enough time to write up an entire website about it Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards
It's Debian with a pretty front end. Probably hit the same problem as my VIA C3, ikkle 64kbit cache gets swamped and the whole lot grinds to a halt. -0s (or is it -Os?) can help as can setting the march statment as close as possible.
You may now return to your regular chatting.
Anyway, I've just had an Apple iPhone arrive in the post this morning and am getting busy hacking away at it. It's nice
It really *does* run Darwin underneath, and it's possible now to get ssh working on it. I bet it's faster than that old Flybook, and this is with an ARM cpu...cyberface said:
ThePassenger said:
cyberface said:
ThePassenger said:
If you like pain, scrolling compiles and generally waiting for things to happen.
Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards It's Debian with a pretty front end.
Yeah. I put Gentoo on a Flybook (Transmeta Crusoe CPU.....) and the compiling took ages. Enough time to write up an entire website about it Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards
It's Debian with a pretty front end. Probably hit the same problem as my VIA C3, ikkle 64kbit cache gets swamped and the whole lot grinds to a halt. -0s (or is it -Os?) can help as can setting the march statment as close as possible.
You may now return to your regular chatting.
Anyway, I've just had an Apple iPhone arrive in the post this morning and am getting busy hacking away at it. It's nice
It really *does* run Darwin underneath, and it's possible now to get ssh working on it. I bet it's faster than that old Flybook, and this is with an ARM cpu...Have you been able to get any phone carrier provider in England actived on the phone. i heard rumours of there being problem in other countries with the phones not working with the sim card..
what can you do. i have been reading alot on it on HackintOsh.. (im not sur eif thats it but you know)
Can we have some pictures. What have you been able to do on the unit..
blog maybe id be very intrested!!
Thansk
NickFRP said:
very intrested in this.
Have you been able to get any phone carrier provider in England actived on the phone. i heard rumours of there being problem in other countries with the phones not working with the sim card..
what can you do. i have been reading alot on it on HackintOsh.. (im not sur eif thats it but you know)
Can we have some pictures. What have you been able to do on the unit..
blog maybe id be very intrested!!
Thansk
Pics tomorrow maybe, hackint0sh is where some of the discussion is taking place, but the guys doing the real work are hereHave you been able to get any phone carrier provider in England actived on the phone. i heard rumours of there being problem in other countries with the phones not working with the sim card..
what can you do. i have been reading alot on it on HackintOsh.. (im not sur eif thats it but you know)
Can we have some pictures. What have you been able to do on the unit..
blog maybe id be very intrested!!
Thansk
Unlocking the phone for any SIM will happen, even though it's hard, since it's a baseband 5 device like the newer Nokias, and those have been cracked already. Currently only have it working over Wifi. I'm an early adopter, don't recommend anyone outside the USA get one until the unlocking tools are consumerised - Apple could always release a software update to re-lock the thing, but it's hardly in their best interests sales-wise. They'll have to sell them unlocked when they release them in the EU because several countries prohibit locked phones by law (Belgium being one, Italy another IIRC).
Anyway this has nothing to do with Linux so I'll post a thread tomorrow with pics
cyberface said:
ThePassenger said:
cyberface said:
ThePassenger said:
If you like pain, scrolling compiles and generally waiting for things to happen.
Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards It's Debian with a pretty front end.
Yeah. I put Gentoo on a Flybook (Transmeta Crusoe CPU.....) and the compiling took ages. Enough time to write up an entire website about it Gentoo is the way forward. Although emerge kde-base on a slow (read: PII class CPU) is just asking for several days of straight compile.
Debian, good, not user friendly as Ubuntu but it's what the cool kids use.
Slackware, older than moses, good if you like it.
Ubuntu, look at me ma' I've got Wizards
It's Debian with a pretty front end. Probably hit the same problem as my VIA C3, ikkle 64kbit cache gets swamped and the whole lot grinds to a halt. -0s (or is it -Os?) can help as can setting the march statment as close as possible.
You may now return to your regular chatting.
Anyway, I've just had an Apple iPhone arrive in the post this morning and am getting busy hacking away at it. It's nice
It really *does* run Darwin underneath, and it's possible now to get ssh working on it. I bet it's faster than that old Flybook, and this is with an ARM cpu...I'm with NickFRP, links and piccies please
You're all wrong, OpenSUSE is the way forward!
www.opensuse.org.
Gentoo, Debian etc are for freaks who get off fiddling with their operating system rather than actually doing anything productive, you don't find Windows or Mac users doing that as they just install it and get on with it. I don't see why Linux has to be any different in that respect.
www.opensuse.org.
Gentoo, Debian etc are for freaks who get off fiddling with their operating system rather than actually doing anything productive, you don't find Windows or Mac users doing that as they just install it and get on with it. I don't see why Linux has to be any different in that respect.
qube_TA said:
You're all wrong, OpenSUSE is the way forward!
www.opensuse.org.
Gentoo, Debian etc are for freaks who get off fiddling with their operating system rather than actually doing anything productive, you don't find Windows or Mac users doing that as they just install it and get on with it. I don't see why Linux has to be any different in that respect.
I've not used Suse in years (since v9) so I can't really comment on the more modern versions. What put me off it at the time was the fact that it was exceptionally hard to find RPM's for it; compiling from source was possible but you very quickly decended in to 'dependancy hell'. Not good and pretty much the same as 'DLL hell' on Windows (Come on, just how many fwww.opensuse.org.
Gentoo, Debian etc are for freaks who get off fiddling with their operating system rather than actually doing anything productive, you don't find Windows or Mac users doing that as they just install it and get on with it. I don't see why Linux has to be any different in that respect.
king versions of RICHED20.DLL do you need? MSVCRTV8.DLL is becomming the new version of that); which having used XP until a few months ago as a secondary I know for a fact is still alive and well. I will however give a massive thumbs up for YaST. That rocks and I wish more people would dream up a universal tool to go from console to GUI that seemlessly. Suse or Ubuntu or Debian? It doesn't really matter to be honest. At their core is the same 2.6.20 kernel driving the show and I'm pretty sure all of them conform to the usual LSB and SysV style specs for /etc/init.d and /etc/rc?.d runlevels. If you know you can get the RPM's you want and are happy to compile if you can't, I'd say Suse. If you don't want to compile I'd say Ubuntu or Debian, they're vastly more popular and by virtue of being in the lime light you'll find .DEB's for the newest version of Ubuntu in most places.
Hafta say; Ubuntu rocks!
Okay, so it's linux for the hard of thinking, but it works right out of the box. I have no experience of Debian or other flavours mentioned but for those who just want an alternative to Windoze that'll install with little or no grief it's just the job. I'm sure there are many others that'll do just the same, but I'm impressed thus far. Bear in mind though, this is just my play thing at home; primarily browsing & e-mail plus the odd spread sheet and letter writing so I'm easily pleased.
Okay, so it's linux for the hard of thinking, but it works right out of the box. I have no experience of Debian or other flavours mentioned but for those who just want an alternative to Windoze that'll install with little or no grief it's just the job. I'm sure there are many others that'll do just the same, but I'm impressed thus far. Bear in mind though, this is just my play thing at home; primarily browsing & e-mail plus the odd spread sheet and letter writing so I'm easily pleased.
qube_TA said:
You're all wrong, OpenSUSE is the way forward!
www.opensuse.org.
Gentoo, Debian etc are for freaks who get off fiddling with their operating system rather than actually doing anything productive, you don't find Windows or Mac users doing that as they just install it and get on with it. I don't see why Linux has to be any different in that respect.
Bloody hell, it's bad enough with the OS holy wars between Mac, Windows and Linux without the Linux zealots fighting over which distro is best.www.opensuse.org.
Gentoo, Debian etc are for freaks who get off fiddling with their operating system rather than actually doing anything productive, you don't find Windows or Mac users doing that as they just install it and get on with it. I don't see why Linux has to be any different in that respect.
The first Linux proper distro (i.e. a nice green folder with CDs in, rather than some hacked patched downloaded pile of useless crap at university that I swiftly replaced with OS/2 Warp, which rocked at the time) was SuSE Professional 7.3 - I have the disks right here still
Given Linux's limitations at the time (the 2.4 kernel was 'experimental' at the time!), SuSE was very good at dealing with my hacked hardware and once it'd realised it couldn't get X running immediately, YaST's curses interface was brilliant.
So thumbs up to SuSE. I agree Gentoo is for hackers not consumers really, but Debian's pretty easy to set up and doesn't require 1337 skillz just to get a working desktop with OpenOffice etc.
However, as to 'Windows or Mac users just getting on with it' - Mac users most certainly do, whereas Windows...
Check out the 'iTunes update help please' thread... 
cyberface said:
However, as to 'Windows or Mac users just getting on with it' - Mac users most certainly do, whereas Windows... Check out the 'iTunes update help please' thread...
Check out the 'iTunes update help please' thread... It's true what they say "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" I have enough IT 'skills' to get my self into trouble, but not enough to get out again later!!!
Chris
chris.mapey said:
cyberface said:
However, as to 'Windows or Mac users just getting on with it' - Mac users most certainly do, whereas Windows... Check out the 'iTunes update help please' thread...
Check out the 'iTunes update help please' thread... It's true what they say "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" I have enough IT 'skills' to get my self into trouble, but not enough to get out again later!!!
Chris
I suppose it all depends on the Windows Installer subsystem.At least you didn't have to compile it yourself though eh?
qube_TA said:
..., you don't find Windows or Mac users doing that as they just install it and get on with it. I don't see why Linux has to be any different in that respect.
I often think that Linux and Windows are opposites in this respect.I don't like a cleanly installed Linux system, it never has the right stuff installed, all configured wrong, and just isn't very nice. It takes time to get it set up just right and there it stays... all nice
A newly installed Windows system is nice and fast, and looks good. But as packages are installed and removed it slowly decays, the registry gets fatter, bits of old installs scattered around... until it needs a blowing away.
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