Huge mistake Nokia
Discussion
hman said:
Because the screens are really small, you cant upgrade the memory with sim cards, cant replace the battery without voiding the warranty.
And they really stopped being the best about the same time the Galaxy S came out.
Yeah, complete rubbish ain't they...And they really stopped being the best about the same time the Galaxy S came out.
Posted from my iPhone
BliarOut said:
hman said:
Because the screens are really small, you cant upgrade the memory with sim cards, cant replace the battery without voiding the warranty.
And they really stopped being the best about the same time the Galaxy S came out.
Yeah, complete rubbish ain't they...And they really stopped being the best about the same time the Galaxy S came out.
Posted from my iPhone
Morningside said:
Why dont phone manufactures make a blank one, a bit like a PC compatible?
Then you could install the OS of your choice? Regardless of Android, Symbion or W7 or some third party design.
By third party I mean leave the core low level stuff (bios/firmware) alone and just allow the OS to sit on top.
In a way they already do. You can install pretty much any OS you want and pretty much any phone, proven by the fact that when a new phone comes out it takes a matter of weeks for someone to hack iOS/Android/W7 on to it.Then you could install the OS of your choice? Regardless of Android, Symbion or W7 or some third party design.
By third party I mean leave the core low level stuff (bios/firmware) alone and just allow the OS to sit on top.
They just partner up with a certain OS provider in order to tweak the hardware to work best with one OS.
The politics involved with the bean counters and other assorted political mupppets has got me out of mobile design.
I have seen so many chips designed wrong, and the managers just force the s
t out of the door!
I can look at the design on paper and analyse it and see the faults before it is made, when I report those faults I get fired. Everytime I stop a project in it's early phases, people loose their productivity bonuses.
I have had enough and I no longer have a mobile phone for 2 years, and I don't miss it!
I have seen so many chips designed wrong, and the managers just force the s
t out of the door!I can look at the design on paper and analyse it and see the faults before it is made, when I report those faults I get fired. Everytime I stop a project in it's early phases, people loose their productivity bonuses.
I have had enough and I no longer have a mobile phone for 2 years, and I don't miss it!
Mojooo said:
Considering how much people have complained about copy and paste in WP7 is a disgrace that the earliest it might appear seems to be 8 March
Groundhog day?http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/17/iphone-finally-...
that was close to 2 years for apple to give the iphone cut and paste.. IIRC
From Nokias point of view, this makes alot of sense, for one big reason.
Apps.
It's all about the apps. To develop for the iPhone, you need to learn objective C, use a badly out dated IDE.
For WP7, it's silverlight, C# or VB, Prism. All developed in Visual Studio, which is IMHO the best development IDE around (with R# or course).
Loads of CS graduates learn this stuff, so there's a good developer base of kids with time, loads of developers use this every day. Silverlight apps can be ported, so for enterprise development it's perfect.
That is the killer feature of WP7, iPhone has more apps, WP7 is easier to develop for.
I admit I'm an iPhone person, but the next app I develop will be WP7, not iPhone.
Apps.
It's all about the apps. To develop for the iPhone, you need to learn objective C, use a badly out dated IDE.
For WP7, it's silverlight, C# or VB, Prism. All developed in Visual Studio, which is IMHO the best development IDE around (with R# or course).
Loads of CS graduates learn this stuff, so there's a good developer base of kids with time, loads of developers use this every day. Silverlight apps can be ported, so for enterprise development it's perfect.
That is the killer feature of WP7, iPhone has more apps, WP7 is easier to develop for.
I admit I'm an iPhone person, but the next app I develop will be WP7, not iPhone.
PSBuckshot said:
I don't understand why people just don't buy iPhones....
I didnt get one 'cause I want to be able to move my music around between my computers.Didnt fancy iTunes.
Got a contract £15 cheaper a month with free insurance on a Desire HD today.
Cant take the battery out and replace it on the iPhone.
Thats the first few reasons that came to mind for me...
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Nokia in my last post there. Id had I think maybe 6/8 Nokias couldnt have been happier with them. Then I got a Nokia n95 8gb, and now will probably never own a nokia again. Stupid slow laggy piece of st. The whole point of it was to be able to slide it the other way to get mp3 controlls that stopped working after a couple of months. Worst phone Ive ever had. Think I had it replaced either 2 or 3 times aswell in the first few months.
t. The whole point of it was to be able to slide it the other way to get mp3 controlls that stopped working after a couple of months. Worst phone Ive ever had. Think I had it replaced either 2 or 3 times aswell in the first few months.RobDickinson said:
Wow checkout apples new subscription rules, way to shaft content providers!
Kinda expected better from your RD.From what I've read, anyone using Apple's mechanism for an in app purchase (eg authentication, cc details stored, billing, and remittance), will be required to hand over 30%.
Anyone who wants to build their own in app purchase system, pays nothing.
tinman0 said:
Anyone who wants to build their own in app purchase system, pays nothing.
Your not allowed to do that. You can provide content outside of apples system but not from within your app.
And then you have to offer it for same or more than the itms price.
So providers are faced with either selling via itms and apple taking a 30% cut or trying to sell outside of itms for the same or higher price.
Its bad enough apple force you to buy apps from their store only and take a 30% cut, taking a 30% cut from everyones content too and then forcing them to not sell it higher price elsewhere is evil.
Given Amazon have already comitted to having their reader on every platform, sony has had its reader app withdrawn already....
RobDickinson said:
tinman0 said:
Anyone who wants to build their own in app purchase system, pays nothing.
Your not allowed to do that. You can provide content outside of apples system but not from within your app.
And then you have to offer it for same or more than the itms price.
So providers are faced with either selling via itms and apple taking a 30% cut or trying to sell outside of itms for the same or higher price.
Its bad enough apple force you to buy apps from their store only and take a 30% cut, taking a 30% cut from everyones content too and then forcing them to not sell it higher price elsewhere is evil.
Given Amazon have already comitted to having their reader on every platform, sony has had its reader app withdrawn already....
If you want to manage your own content subscriptions, then you can. That is exactly what Amazon does in the Kindle App for example.
eharding said:
If you want to manage your own content subscriptions, then you can. That is exactly what Amazon does in the Kindle App for example.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/02/apples-new-subscription-model-is-evil/Its specificaly what they are NOT allowed to do any more!
You cant link to your own content. Not at all.
Icrap user has to either buy from itms or go and hunt for it elsewhere manualy, and be garonteed its no cheaper elsewhere.
RobDickinson said:
eharding said:
If you want to manage your own content subscriptions, then you can. That is exactly what Amazon does in the Kindle App for example.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/02/apples-new-subscription-model-is-evil/Its specificaly what they are NOT allowed to do any more!
You cant link to your own content. Not at all.
Icrap user has to either buy from itms or go and hunt for it elsewhere manualy, and be garonteed its no cheaper elsewhere.
One the face of it, it does seem an attempt to screw Amazon, but as far as I can see all Amazon would have to do is to remove the 'Amazon Store' button from the Kindle App - which makes it a slightly less integrated purchasing approach - you have to fire up the browser to go to www.amazon.com to buy your content, and the Kindle App can still detect that you have new content to download when you've paid for it. I can't see how Apple would know the contract type you paid for your content under - one-time or subscription.
It does smack of sharp practice though. It's worth noting that Amazon have outright banned any generic reader applications (even for free content) from the Kindle Native App Market, so the door swings both ways.
Anyway - Nokia. I used to have those, but the N80 was a piece of crap, and the debacle about effectively closing the Symbian developer programme to new entrants for months on end back in 2007 - either by cackhandedness or design - basically killed them as a platform you'd want to develop for.
I thought I'd weigh in with my opinion on this, as I've read alot of uninformed opinions. I'm a (iPhone 4 owning) .NET developer, working on legacy .NET compact for WM6.x, ASP.NET web stuff and more recently WP7 Silverlight stuff.
A few things about WP7:
- It bears NO resemblance to Windows Mobile. None at all. It's a completely rewritten OS. Any comparison to it is unfair. WM was developed with very different requirements and has its origins from something like 6 years ago. New WM6 handsets look crap because it's fundamentally old.
- It's a nice operating system. The interface is very slick, nicer in some respects compared to iOS, similar in others in my opinion. Those who are complaining about it lacking the likes of copy n paste / multitasking are quick to forget iOS was missing things in its first iteration. And yes, while Microsoft are needing to compete with iOS 4 and not a 3 year old iPhone, they also needed to get a stable WP7 out for Christmas. If they'd shipped a more fully-featured but buggy OS then that would have been more damaging. iOS is not without its faults either (alarm bug anyone?) so no OS is perfect. It's got some nice xBox Live integration and some amazing looking Kinect integration on the way, giving it a nice selling point.
- It's VERY easy to develop for. As a .NET developer the transition has been painless. For new developers, Visual Studio is a fantastic IDE, the documentation on MSDN is the best in the industry. There's a very active community who are willing to help. When we started our mobile dev project at work we looked at Android and WP7. Setting up an Android development environment was frustrating and whilst there was a full reference library for classes etc, it was useless in that it didn't explain how to apply the code to solve a problem. Community content is tiny compared to Silverlight / .NET.
- WP7 has missed some important enterprise features in their concentration on consumers. The enterprise is looking to WP7 to replace WM6, and in a few respects they've failed. There's no SQL Server CE, and no way of deploying private / enterprise apps without it being available publicly on the marketplace. This is unacceptable IMO. But again it's been hurried out for Christmas.
- The Nokia / Microsoft thing is the best of a bad situation. Symbian is dead. It lacks the marketing, consumer brand recognition and popular apps to make it compete. People now buy smartphones by the OS on them, and the subsequent app support. Hardware is a secondary consideration. It's a bold move from Nokia, as they now have a differentiator from the likes of HTC. Nokia were never going to use Android with an ex Microsoft man at the helm, and Meego is too late to the party with the same problems as Symbian. It'll be consigned to set-top boxes. As a WP7 developer, I think it's great news!
To conclude, i'd say if you want a smartphone then look at iOS, Android AND WP7. It's just as good and in some respects better. The apps are there / coming and integration with other Microsoft tech is excellent (as you'd expect). It also has nice features such as pulling your Facebook contacts into your phone. I think the OS wars will be a 3 way battle and while i don't expect WP7 to get market dominance, i don't see it sinking into insignificance.
Phew, i think i'm done
A few things about WP7:
- It bears NO resemblance to Windows Mobile. None at all. It's a completely rewritten OS. Any comparison to it is unfair. WM was developed with very different requirements and has its origins from something like 6 years ago. New WM6 handsets look crap because it's fundamentally old.
- It's a nice operating system. The interface is very slick, nicer in some respects compared to iOS, similar in others in my opinion. Those who are complaining about it lacking the likes of copy n paste / multitasking are quick to forget iOS was missing things in its first iteration. And yes, while Microsoft are needing to compete with iOS 4 and not a 3 year old iPhone, they also needed to get a stable WP7 out for Christmas. If they'd shipped a more fully-featured but buggy OS then that would have been more damaging. iOS is not without its faults either (alarm bug anyone?) so no OS is perfect. It's got some nice xBox Live integration and some amazing looking Kinect integration on the way, giving it a nice selling point.
- It's VERY easy to develop for. As a .NET developer the transition has been painless. For new developers, Visual Studio is a fantastic IDE, the documentation on MSDN is the best in the industry. There's a very active community who are willing to help. When we started our mobile dev project at work we looked at Android and WP7. Setting up an Android development environment was frustrating and whilst there was a full reference library for classes etc, it was useless in that it didn't explain how to apply the code to solve a problem. Community content is tiny compared to Silverlight / .NET.
- WP7 has missed some important enterprise features in their concentration on consumers. The enterprise is looking to WP7 to replace WM6, and in a few respects they've failed. There's no SQL Server CE, and no way of deploying private / enterprise apps without it being available publicly on the marketplace. This is unacceptable IMO. But again it's been hurried out for Christmas.
- The Nokia / Microsoft thing is the best of a bad situation. Symbian is dead. It lacks the marketing, consumer brand recognition and popular apps to make it compete. People now buy smartphones by the OS on them, and the subsequent app support. Hardware is a secondary consideration. It's a bold move from Nokia, as they now have a differentiator from the likes of HTC. Nokia were never going to use Android with an ex Microsoft man at the helm, and Meego is too late to the party with the same problems as Symbian. It'll be consigned to set-top boxes. As a WP7 developer, I think it's great news!
To conclude, i'd say if you want a smartphone then look at iOS, Android AND WP7. It's just as good and in some respects better. The apps are there / coming and integration with other Microsoft tech is excellent (as you'd expect). It also has nice features such as pulling your Facebook contacts into your phone. I think the OS wars will be a 3 way battle and while i don't expect WP7 to get market dominance, i don't see it sinking into insignificance.
Phew, i think i'm done
Simbu said:
...
To conclude, i'd say if you want a smartphone then look at iOS, Android AND WP7. It's just as good and in some respects better. The apps are there / coming and integration with other Microsoft tech is excellent (as you'd expect). It also has nice features such as pulling your Facebook contacts into your phone. I think the OS wars will be a 3 way battle and while i don't expect WP7 to get market dominance, i don't see it sinking into insignificance....
To conclude, i'd say if you want a smartphone then look at iOS, Android AND WP7. It's just as good and in some respects better. The apps are there / coming and integration with other Microsoft tech is excellent (as you'd expect). It also has nice features such as pulling your Facebook contacts into your phone. I think the OS wars will be a 3 way battle and while i don't expect WP7 to get market dominance, i don't see it sinking into insignificance....
thanks for the write-up, very insightful!But about the facebook note, I think that's an easy feature on Android as well.
That said, I'm very curious at having a play with a WP7 phone for my next phone (half of this year). I'm curious by the xbox/kinect integration, but my phone is mainly work so it would need some very good google services integration, which, of course, I'm spoiled with by Android.
But, very interesting prospect none the less. And I'm happy to see there are three players, as we were heading to the same market as there are on computer systems: 85% Microsoft/15% Apple, but with google having the 85% and Apple having the "niche" of 15%.
Hopefully a third big system, like WP, can get a bit of balance to the force and if there's any other company with enough resources to make it work, it's deffo MS.
Simbu said:
- WP7 has missed some important enterprise features in their concentration on consumers. The enterprise is looking to WP7 to replace WM6, and in a few respects they've failed. There's no SQL Server CE, and no way of deploying private / enterprise apps without it being available publicly on the marketplace. This is unacceptable IMO. But again it's been hurried out for Christmas.
Was with a large ms oem yesterday looking at mobile device management and they were saying ms don't have a road map for managing wp7 in the enterprise via sccm etc, so I imagine its some way off.Gassing Station | Computers, Gadgets & Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff