Apple Vision Pro

[robsa]

In my opinion this is the first of a new chapter in computing; one day in the not too distant future these will replace phones and screens for most people, and this will be the first one you will see shown in museums, like the iPhone was the first smartphone that made a huge impact.
It’s not designed for the general public, it’s designed for devs and early adopters.
I think it’s really exciting, I’d love to try one out.

[TheInternet]

ChocolateFrog said:

I've been banging on about AR to my friends and family for a while.

It's clearly the next big thing but to me it's a scary prospect due to how addictive it will be.

Next big thing if you're still in 2019. Amazed that Apple have launched this while everyone is moving on from the VR/AR fad.

[TheInternet]

Tycho said:

I think that Snazzy Labs nails how I think about this.

Quite a damning take.

'There wasn't a single application shown throughout the entirety of the keynote that hasn't been demoed and released in one iteration or another on previous VR and AR headsets, and look Apple will do those things better, yes, but I don't subscribe to the idea that my Metaquest Pro is gathering dust simply because it's not good enough at what it does. VR isn't dying because hand tracking isn't quite good enough, no, the problem with these devices is that they require intentionality and there's no viable use case for them.'

'Hardware has not been the problem with VR, it hasn't been for years, it has been the software. I expected to see a Black Swan, a suite of apps and games that made me think "Duh! Why has nobody thought of this before, this is what AR needs," but there really wasn't much of anything other than AR apps that I already have on my iPhone and my Mac, and that I can use without strapping on a headset to my face making myself look like a dick and spending $3500 in the process'

[lizardbrain]

Cockaigne said:

lizardbrain said:

It seems more aimed at consumer market to me. Barely any hardcore AR stuff in the presentation. Perhaps to be expected given it wasn't a B2B presentation. But I don't think it's aimed at surgeons etc like holodeck was

Consumers at home? So men with too much money and time on their hands, is their market. Prawn?

I'm sure it will have wide appeal. Hospitals and design agencies are full of ipads etc.

Arguably spending 500 quid on an ipad when it doesn't do anything my laptop can't do is equally dumb. Yet I've bought about 5 of them over the years.... probably totally not far off 3 grand. 99% of my ipad usage is on core mac apps, safari, notes, reminders, messaging, TV.

If you look at the apps apple are showcasing, they are very notably super simple, photos, messages

I don't think snazzy really gets it. If quest pro was good enough I would have 100% already have bought one. It doesn't look good enough to be an actual computer, for me. Particularly the silicon. It's still just a phone compared to the power of the apple headset.

Edited by lizardbrain on Wednesday 7th June 18:03

[LeeM135i]

I like the idea of this, I spend a lot of time travelling and a lot of time huddled over a 13" Mac trying to run teams calls with presentations, data sets and technical drawings which is a massive pain on a small screen. In my office I have a nice big ultra wide which really works well but can't be taken on the road / train / plane.

The main challenge for me with the gen 1 product is the battery life and price. But it will be the same as the Apple Watch where the first generation was shockingly rubbish, not waterproof, you needed to lift your arm for the display to come on and it couldn't last a day on a charge. Now the Apple Watch will run a couple of days, always on screen, waterproof etc etc.

I will wait for gen 2 or 3 but I can see this having a place in my life in the future, time to start saving.........

[lizardbrain]

LeeM135i said:

I like the idea of this, I spend a lot of time travelling and a lot of time huddled over a 13" Mac trying to run teams calls with presentations, data sets and technical drawings which is a massive pain on a small screen. In my office I have a nice big ultra wide which really works well but can't be taken on the road / train / plane.

The main challenge for me with the gen 1 product is the battery life and price. But it will be the same as the Apple Watch where the first generation was shockingly rubbish, not waterproof, you needed to lift your arm for the display to come on and it couldn't last a day on a charge. Now the Apple Watch will run a couple of days, always on screen, waterproof etc etc.

I will wait for gen 2 or 3 but I can see this having a place in my life in the future, time to start saving.........

I'm wearing the series 0 right now. And I'm a sucker for new apple kit. It definitely holds a days charge.

[LeeM135i]

lizardbrain said:

LeeM135i said:

I like the idea of this, I spend a lot of time travelling and a lot of time huddled over a 13" Mac trying to run teams calls with presentations, data sets and technical drawings which is a massive pain on a small screen. In my office I have a nice big ultra wide which really works well but can't be taken on the road / train / plane.

The main challenge for me with the gen 1 product is the battery life and price. But it will be the same as the Apple Watch where the first generation was shockingly rubbish, not waterproof, you needed to lift your arm for the display to come on and it couldn't last a day on a charge. Now the Apple Watch will run a couple of days, always on screen, waterproof etc etc.

I will wait for gen 2 or 3 but I can see this having a place in my life in the future, time to start saving.........

I'm wearing the series 0 right now. And I'm a sucker for new apple kit. It definitely holds a days charge.

Im impressed, I didn't get a full day until I got a series 2. Now have a series 6 and don't feel the need to upgrade.

[lizardbrain]

LeeM135i said:

Im impressed, I didn't get a full day until I got a series 2. Now have a series 6 and don't feel the need to upgrade.

Thing is, i can live with lifting my arm and water damage. The series 0 watch is basically good enough in my view.

But it’s not a great analogy as V2 of the headset could be lighter, faster, better lenses.

Don’t really care if the watch is lighter or faster.

So I’m with you on V2. However it’s already a year to launch in Uk…. And I feel I am going to be one of the suckers.

Maybe if the obvious weaknesses are just things like battery life and weight, I can live with that. If it looks like they’ve really cracked the rest then I’ll likely go with V1

Edited by lizardbrain on Wednesday 7th June 18:15

[anonymous-user]

lizardbrain said:

I'm sure it will have wide appeal. Hospitals and design agencies are full of ipads etc.

Arguably spending 500 quid on an ipad when it doesn't do anything my laptop can't do is equally dumb. Yet I've bought about 5 of them over the years.... probably totally not far off 3 grand. 99% of my ipad usage is on core mac apps, safari, notes, reminders, messaging, TV.

If you look at the apps apple are showcasing, they are very notably super simple, photos, messages

I don't think snazzy really gets it. If quest pro was good enough I would have 100% already have bought one. It doesn't look good enough to be an actual computer, for me. Particularly the silicon. It's still just a phone compared to the power of the apple headset.

I feel your pain. Nearly 3 years ago I bought the newly redesigned iPad Pro. The new one with LIDAR and all that kind of stuff. I bought the Magic Keyboard case and pencil to go with it, cost me about £1300 all in.

I then proceeded to use it almost exclusively for watching Netflix/YouTube in bed and streaming music to my home AirPlay speaker system…

It was an absolutely magnificent piece of tech though. A thing of beauty.

I sold to a friend recently as I realised I really was just wasting it.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 7th June 18:39

[ChocolateFrog]

TheInternet said:

ChocolateFrog said:

I've been banging on about AR to my friends and family for a while.

It's clearly the next big thing but to me it's a scary prospect due to how addictive it will be.

Next big thing if you're still in 2019. Amazed that Apple have launched this while everyone is moving on from the VR/AR fad.

VR is a fad.

We haven't had proper AR yet.

AI + AR = Potent mix IMO.

[zippy3x]

ChocolateFrog said:

VR is a fad.

We haven't had proper AR yet.

AI + AR = Potent mix IMO.

Microsoft's HoloLens was proper AR. I was working at Microsoft when they released it and had a play. I then went to work at an agency that had a couple.

At the agency we had all the dev and creative staff try and think of a killer app for AR. We couldn't. everything was just a gimmick, or if we did think of something vaguely useful, the hardware was too brittle and expensive.

The Vision Pro has addressed a couple of the technical limitations of HoloLens, such as screen resolution (not a huge issue) and field of view (more of an issue), but, based on the video, it hasn't solved the three main limitations of HoloLens.

1) To expensive and not robust enough
2) Looking like a throbber wearing it
3) No killer app

[kevinon]

I've been watching the AR / VR / MR space for years. I used to go to all the meet-ups and try the 'next big thing' but all left me feeling that uses cases are limited, and the poxiness of the designs made them difficult to use.

But I think this is right conceptually. As only developers will have them for the first year, a working concept that frees up the imagination of partners is what matters.

As to cost, it strikes me as odd that on a car site people are looking askance at the INITIAL price. The iPhones were slated as ridiculously priced statements of your stupidity by some. But the competitors soon started to breach the £1k mark, even those competitors like Google and Facebook who are willing to sell at a loss in order to sell your data.

Maybe the PH use case is sitting in a car in showroom and being able to see in AR / VR your colour combinations, leather, and paint options. Like how is a 'spatial computer' expensive compared to an £18,000 paint job on your 911 Dakar ? :big laugh:

Anyway, if you want a pretty positive take on the POTENTIAL, Mr Gruber is your man. he spent 30 mins in a carefully controlled 'home environment' with it.
Tl;dr - the 3 main offers of this environment are 1. Computing / 2. Consumption / 3. Immersion. The last is the one we can't really envisage just yet. I think it's going to be a real change in the long term, if I had to make a stake.
https://daringfireball.net/2023/06/first_impressio...

[Killboy]

£50 says this is MASSIVE in 2 years time.

[ChocolateFrog]

zippy3x said:

ChocolateFrog said:

VR is a fad.

We haven't had proper AR yet.

AI + AR = Potent mix IMO.

Microsoft's HoloLens was proper AR. I was working at Microsoft when they released it and had a play. I then went to work at an agency that had a couple.

At the agency we had all the dev and creative staff try and think of a killer app for AR. We couldn't. everything was just a gimmick, or if we did think of something vaguely useful, the hardware was too brittle and expensive.

The Vision Pro has addressed a couple of the technical limitations of HoloLens, such as screen resolution (not a huge issue) and field of view (more of an issue), but, based on the video, it hasn't solved the three main limitations of HoloLens.

1) To expensive and not robust enough
2) Looking like a throbber wearing it
3) No killer app

Everything so far has been nothing more than a gimmick, we've used it at work too.

I include this new product in that assessment too. It'll mature in the next 10 years into proper consumer products with useful applications I'm sure of it.

Doubt I'll be alive by the time they've miniaturised it into contact lenses unfortunately, or maybe fortunately.

[Cockaigne]

Killboy said:

£50 says this is MASSIVE in 2 years time.

Well they are massive already.

You know Facebook has spent 100 plus billion on this market, yes Apple is a 'Spatial computer' but same bks. Simple thing is, people don't want stupid big things on their face that make them look like bells, en masse. Its a bit like why 3d TVs never caught on.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/06/06/...

The Apple Vision Pro Is Nothing More Than Repackaged VR Hype

Edited by Cockaigne on Thursday 8th June 00:43

[lizardbrain]

Killer app for me, is simply having 8 tabs open at the same time.

I spend half my live resizing windows.

[gangzoom]

lizardbrain said:

Killer app for me, is simply having 8 tabs open at the same time.

I spend half my live resizing windows.

I have 6-7 screens dotted around various locations at work, as well as various headsets for Teams, and open office environments to deal with.

I can actually see a real productivity gain with Vision Pro, and actually a cost benefit if you can essentially turn an office into a portable headset.

The digital avatar is very scary though, could that + ChatGTP chair a meeting and no one know it was all done by Ai??!!.....But fear isn't a reason not to try something.

I've been away from the Apple Eco system for a decade now. The iPadPro supplied by work has been very good for productivity. Apple is very clever to have made Vision Pro setup reliant on iPhone.

Well played Apple, all of sudden instead of wondering when Apple will do an device that can tempt me away from my Fold 4, I'm going to following the Vision Pro with great interest.

I bought the 2nd gen iPod, QuickTake 150 camera, iPhone 3G, so I would be amazed if I don't end up buying V2 of the Vision Pro.

[gangzoom]

Cockaigne said:

Two hour run time, fake eyes, it is a gimmick. Looks worse than the Dyson headphones which is saying something. Google glasses was so much better engineered. People don't want stupid big googles on their face even in business market this is aimed at

Business cares about productivity not looks.

If sitting around in your pants dancing to nursery rhythms improves productivity, it'll get mandated by Senior leadership.

Technology is most valuable if it enables new proccess/ways of working. A headset is actually very cheap compared to physical buildings or spaces.

This thing can change how we work, Apple have somehow nailed the concept far more convincingly than others have. MP3 players existed before the iPod, so did smart phones, I had a Reo player and Palm Treo, both on paper did what the iPod and iPhone does but reality were rubbish compared to the Apple offerings.

Even my wife can see the potential of what Apple is selling for work. I might even not wait for V2.....but Apple will need to work out Enterprise security with the new Vision OS. iOS is actually much better than Android for company portal.

Woo.....been able to visualise all of the digital data we have for patient care on an unlimited canvas.....very very exciting stuff!!!

I've got this kind it setup across 3 different sites at present, one Vision Pro can replace all this.

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 8th June 07:20

[funinhounslow]

zippy3x said:

Microsoft's HoloLens was proper AR. I was working at Microsoft when they released it and had a play. I then went to work at an agency that had a couple.

At the agency we had all the dev and creative staff try and think of a killer app for AR. We couldn't. everything was just a gimmick, or if we did think of something vaguely useful, the hardware was too brittle and expensive.

The Vision Pro has addressed a couple of the technical limitations of HoloLens, such as screen resolution (not a huge issue) and field of view (more of an issue), but, based on the video, it hasn't solved the three main limitations of HoloLens.

1) To expensive and not robust enough
2) Looking like a throbber wearing it
3) No killer app

But does it need one?

Surely the success of the iPad is that is does a lot of things well so lots of people can find a use for it? For example

Me: Scoove (piano tutor), photos, Libby (magazines), Apple Music

My partner: jigsaws, other games

Dad: Netflix, bridge app

Granted we all use them for some web browsing but I’d say very few use it primarily for that - our phones do that just fine … And when it was introduced that was the feature Jobs spent the most time on.

[Pflanzgarten]

I've thought this since Google Glass was announced, "why hasn't F1 taken this on?"...

Maybe a rule excludes it already? But imagine a driver having one built into his helmet (originally using a HUD on the visor), getting rid of the steering wheel screen or dashboard in the case of Williams.

You could have all relevant info wherever you want, markers for previous lap braking points, apex, a ghost of the current fastest lap in real time, even ideal driving lines etc.