Nvidia RTX 4000 Launch
Discussion
I don't personally what makes the higher 4090 cards of any AIB worth the extra (excluding the AIO versions etc) given the small gains they might have if OC variant (or if you OC a non OC version) - The fps is already so high anyway, but ones money is ones own!
My 4090 is power limited to 80%, it runs at 63 degrees and has a boost clock settle speed of 2715MHz - My framerates remain basically the same yet the power draw is around 280 watts at 80% PL. The fans are at 1100rpm. So I'm getting double the framerate than the old 3080 Ti, up to 20 degrees cooler operating temps when gaming, nearly half the fan speed rpm when gaming so its considerably quieter, and nearly 100 watts less power draw. A total win win in my books lol.
My 4090 is power limited to 80%, it runs at 63 degrees and has a boost clock settle speed of 2715MHz - My framerates remain basically the same yet the power draw is around 280 watts at 80% PL. The fans are at 1100rpm. So I'm getting double the framerate than the old 3080 Ti, up to 20 degrees cooler operating temps when gaming, nearly half the fan speed rpm when gaming so its considerably quieter, and nearly 100 watts less power draw. A total win win in my books lol.
robbiekhan said:
I don't personally what makes the higher 4090 cards of any AIB worth the extra (excluding the AIO versions etc) given the small gains they might have if OC variant (or if you OC a non OC version) - The fps is already so high anyway, but ones money is ones own!
My 4090 is power limited to 80%, it runs at 63 degrees and has a boost clock settle speed of 2715MHz - My framerates remain basically the same yet the power draw is around 280 watts at 80% PL. The fans are at 1100rpm. So I'm getting double the framerate than the old 3080 Ti, up to 20 degrees cooler operating temps when gaming, nearly half the fan speed rpm when gaming so its considerably quieter, and nearly 100 watts less power draw. A total win win in my books lol.
Yep undervolting is a really nice way to run a GPU.My 4090 is power limited to 80%, it runs at 63 degrees and has a boost clock settle speed of 2715MHz - My framerates remain basically the same yet the power draw is around 280 watts at 80% PL. The fans are at 1100rpm. So I'm getting double the framerate than the old 3080 Ti, up to 20 degrees cooler operating temps when gaming, nearly half the fan speed rpm when gaming so its considerably quieter, and nearly 100 watts less power draw. A total win win in my books lol.
In the past when they didn't really have such thermal issues it wasn't a concern it was running flat out, and by all respects they were cheap commodity items and would be out-dated and worthless in a few years any way...
Today a GPU is still useful 5, 6, 7 years later, especially a high spec one, and so running an over-powered GPU lazily and quietly, cool and efficiently, seems a really nice way to go.
Undervolting was really good for the 3000 series cards as they had a limited power budget so you had to undervolt to get higher clocks, the 4000 series has a power limit so high It may as well be unlimited which removes the need for undervolting as now the only limit is the silicon really.
I get a bit confused as to why anyone would undervolt their 4090 as I see no good reason for it, If you want lower heat and lower power then buy a 4080 or 4070 or something but for me it doesn't make sense to buy the most expensive flagship card and then gimp it's performance.
I get a bit confused as to why anyone would undervolt their 4090 as I see no good reason for it, If you want lower heat and lower power then buy a 4080 or 4070 or something but for me it doesn't make sense to buy the most expensive flagship card and then gimp it's performance.
Dropping the power limit (not undervolting) on the 4090 to 80% isn't exactly gimping it, the drop in fps is not noticeable compared to the reduction in power, even dropping it to 60% and it still runs 40fps faster than a 4080 (avg 73fps at 4k with a faster 5800X3D) whilst using the same power (260-270w) in TWW3. Along with lower temps, less power, less noise.
thatsprettyshady said:
Undervolting was really good for the 3000 series cards as they had a limited power budget so you had to undervolt to get higher clocks, the 4000 series has a power limit so high It may as well be unlimited which removes the need for undervolting as now the only limit is the silicon really.
I get a bit confused as to why anyone would undervolt their 4090 as I see no good reason for it, If you want lower heat and lower power then buy a 4080 or 4070 or something but for me it doesn't make sense to buy the most expensive flagship card and then gimp it's performance.
Because it'll run faster than a 4080, draw equivalent or less energy and be quieter for the same level of performance. I get a bit confused as to why anyone would undervolt their 4090 as I see no good reason for it, If you want lower heat and lower power then buy a 4080 or 4070 or something but for me it doesn't make sense to buy the most expensive flagship card and then gimp it's performance.
thatsprettyshady said:
Undervolting was really good for the 3000 series cards as they had a limited power budget so you had to undervolt to get higher clocks, the 4000 series has a power limit so high It may as well be unlimited which removes the need for undervolting as now the only limit is the silicon really.
I get a bit confused as to why anyone would undervolt their 4090 as I see no good reason for it, If you want lower heat and lower power then buy a 4080 or 4070 or something but for me it doesn't make sense to buy the most expensive flagship card and then gimp it's performance.
That’s the point though, you aren’t gimping it. Dropping the power limit to 70% barely affects performance at all but keeps your room cooler and PC running quieter. The 4090 runs rings around the 4080 at that level. Equally there’s no point overclocking because returns are so poor. There’s been plenty of coverage on it so not sure why this point keeps being made. I get a bit confused as to why anyone would undervolt their 4090 as I see no good reason for it, If you want lower heat and lower power then buy a 4080 or 4070 or something but for me it doesn't make sense to buy the most expensive flagship card and then gimp it's performance.
ETA I was beaten to it!
If you get fantastic framerates that can exceed a locked 60/120 fps that most monitors can do, restricting power a bit to reduce heat and noise and save some money on electicity seems pretty sensible to me.
The bigger crime is the astronomical cost of the 4090
It only looks halfway reasonable because Nvidia somehow established a bonkers price point for the 3090.
The bigger crime is the astronomical cost of the 4090
It only looks halfway reasonable because Nvidia somehow established a bonkers price point for the 3090.Lucas Ayde said:
If you get fantastic framerates that can exceed a locked 60/120 fps that most monitors can do, restricting power a bit to reduce heat and noise and save some money on electicity seems pretty sensible to me.
The bigger crime is the astronomical cost of the 4090 It only looks halfway reasonable because Nvidia somehow established a bonkers price point for the 3090.
The price is crazy, but remember the 3090 launched at £1500, and the 4090 is only £100 more some 2 years later whilst being over twice as powerful with lower power consumption, less noise, less heat. In that context the 4090 is excellent value for the performance on offer and is the only halo card on the market with no competition, so the price is justified by that alone.The bigger crime is the astronomical cost of the 4090
It only looks halfway reasonable because Nvidia somehow established a bonkers price point for the 3090.When the 3090 launched, the £600 3080 offered within throwing distance of the 3090 performance, so it was bonkers buying a 3090 unless 24GB VRAM was a must, and then the 3080 Ti came out closing the gap even further being only 2% within a 3090's performance whilst being £1000.
The current state of gpu pricing v performance has killed any enthusiasm / interest I have at the moment.
I usually go for the sweet spot card that provides great price v performance 970 was a good example.
I splashed out on my 2070S which cost five hundred quid but I don’t want to be paying much more than that although I did flirt with a 3080 purchase.
4070 Doesn’t seem like good value to me especially with only 12gb of vram.
Luckily I have a large back cat of old Steam games to play !
I usually go for the sweet spot card that provides great price v performance 970 was a good example.
I splashed out on my 2070S which cost five hundred quid but I don’t want to be paying much more than that although I did flirt with a 3080 purchase.
4070 Doesn’t seem like good value to me especially with only 12gb of vram.
Luckily I have a large back cat of old Steam games to play !
robbiekhan said:
The price is crazy, but remember the 3090 launched at £1500, and the 4090 is only £100 more some 2 years later whilst being over twice as powerful with lower power consumption, less noise, less heat. In that context the 4090 is excellent value for the performance on offer and is the only halo card on the market with no competition, so the price is justified by that alone.
When the 3090 launched, the £600 3080 offered within throwing distance of the 3090 performance, so it was bonkers buying a 3090 unless 24GB VRAM was a must, and then the 3080 Ti came out closing the gap even further being only 2% within a 3090's performance whilst being £1000.
That's what I said - the only reason it looks halfway reasonable is the utterly crazy price point that NVidia managed to establish with the 3090 (which fortunately for them got supported by the lockdown/cryptomania inducing people to pay mental amounts of money for all GPUs). It offers better value than the 3090 (at the original price) but that's not really saying anything.When the 3090 launched, the £600 3080 offered within throwing distance of the 3090 performance, so it was bonkers buying a 3090 unless 24GB VRAM was a must, and then the 3080 Ti came out closing the gap even further being only 2% within a 3090's performance whilst being £1000.
NVidia are still pricing like the crypto boom is in full swing .. that's why sales of the 40xx series generally have been so unspectacular. The cards are objectively good but priced over what the market wants to pay (and I say that as a 4070 owner).
Yes the 2080 Ti started the wtf pricing trend. I had a 2070 Super at the time which I paid £470 for. Then during the crypto boom I sold it for £460 lol and that helped fund the 3080 Ti FE purchase which was a no brainer at MSRP. I then sold that card for £725 recently hence the 4090 purchase.
It doesn't help that AMD haven't come in with competitive pricing. they are cheaper than the 40 series yes, but not enough to pull people away. They are fundamentally not as good as a spec for spec matching 40 series model because they don't have the feature set to compete (ray tracing, no frame generation tech, inferior upscaling) so therefore should be considerably cheaper.
It also doesn't help that AMD have nothing to go against the Nvidia low and mid-range cards, a gap that Intel have filled and are steadily boosting performance with every new driver update it seems as their drivers mature.
unless AMD pull something out of the bag, then the floor will remain to Nvidia, and pricing will not shift in a direction we consumers want, so will have to pay the premium if we want the kind of gains we are looking for.
Thankfully for me, now that I have a 4090, my GPU needs are covered for the next 5yrs or more. I cannot envision a single scenario now where anything coming out will stress out a 4090, and I don't intend on gaming at 4K ever really so will stick to 3440x1440 ultrawide and using DLDSR at 1.78x (4586x1920).
It doesn't help that AMD haven't come in with competitive pricing. they are cheaper than the 40 series yes, but not enough to pull people away. They are fundamentally not as good as a spec for spec matching 40 series model because they don't have the feature set to compete (ray tracing, no frame generation tech, inferior upscaling) so therefore should be considerably cheaper.
It also doesn't help that AMD have nothing to go against the Nvidia low and mid-range cards, a gap that Intel have filled and are steadily boosting performance with every new driver update it seems as their drivers mature.
unless AMD pull something out of the bag, then the floor will remain to Nvidia, and pricing will not shift in a direction we consumers want, so will have to pay the premium if we want the kind of gains we are looking for.
Thankfully for me, now that I have a 4090, my GPU needs are covered for the next 5yrs or more. I cannot envision a single scenario now where anything coming out will stress out a 4090, and I don't intend on gaming at 4K ever really so will stick to 3440x1440 ultrawide and using DLDSR at 1.78x (4586x1920).
Edited by robbiekhan on Saturday 13th May 19:52
I really don't know what AMD are up to ... they have the ideal chance to grab market share from NVidia but seem to have dropped the ball, bigtime.
It's not just about one-off sales either - if they can get people to buy into their brand that would have otherwise gone NVidia then they are laying the foundations for repeat customers.
They do have a very strong position in APUs so maybe they want to focus on that as they see it as more profitable than enthusiast GPUs? After all, the sales from PS5 and Xbox Series S|X, plus all those laptops and even the Steamdeck must add up to an impressive total.
It's not just about one-off sales either - if they can get people to buy into their brand that would have otherwise gone NVidia then they are laying the foundations for repeat customers.
They do have a very strong position in APUs so maybe they want to focus on that as they see it as more profitable than enthusiast GPUs? After all, the sales from PS5 and Xbox Series S|X, plus all those laptops and even the Steamdeck must add up to an impressive total.
AMD does have some legitimate pros over Nvidia but they just aren't marketing those things, which would certainly pull a large chunk of Nvidia users in. Take a major one for example, DPC latency. Thsi has been an issue in Nvidia's driver for over a decade. And only recently has Nvidia acknowledged it as a "known issue" in recent driver release notes.
DPC latency affects audio streaming in basically anything that relies on realtime audio, and can result in clicking/popping or audio distortion among other things. It is an issue with Nvidia's driver and the fact that it has taken them this many years to simply add it as a known issue in driver release notes means we probably won't see a fix for quite some time.
AMD could leverage that and put a marketing spin on it to their advantage.
DPC latency affects audio streaming in basically anything that relies on realtime audio, and can result in clicking/popping or audio distortion among other things. It is an issue with Nvidia's driver and the fact that it has taken them this many years to simply add it as a known issue in driver release notes means we probably won't see a fix for quite some time.
AMD could leverage that and put a marketing spin on it to their advantage.
FourWheelDrift said:
RTX 2080 Ti was £1200 at launch was it not? That was the start of the big jump as the 1080Ti was £699 I think.
yes indeed. I had a FTW3 Ultra 2080ti and a few ROg Strix 2080ti. The launch price of the rog strix 2080ti was £1500+ So it was already big ticket pricing by then.A smaller RTX 4090.
Asus (yes them) have got a new OG 4090 to launch which utilises the old 3090 Ti cooling, so it's thinner and shorter than the monster 4090s.
https://wccftech.com/asus-equips-og-rtx-3090-ti-tu...
At 326mm long instead of 348mm it'll fit more cases, it's not the shortest air cooled 4090 the FE and MSI's Ventus are still shorter.
Asus (yes them) have got a new OG 4090 to launch which utilises the old 3090 Ti cooling, so it's thinner and shorter than the monster 4090s.
https://wccftech.com/asus-equips-og-rtx-3090-ti-tu...
At 326mm long instead of 348mm it'll fit more cases, it's not the shortest air cooled 4090 the FE and MSI's Ventus are still shorter.
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