Weapons-grade home WiFi suggestions

[jimmyjimjim]

random_username said:

+1 on this. I needed to add some coverage to a dead spot in the house which had an ethernet drop so added an Inwall HD. Looks unobtrusive, with some fiddling fits on a UK back box and has the bonus of also being a 4 port switch with a POE port. Just make sure you get the HD version not the older one as I believe that's end of life now...

That part of it does appeal - I looked into this last night, as it would replace a 4 port switch. But, as above, Ifeel it would offer excellent coverage of the 6 cubic feet of cubby it would be in, then blocked by 2 foot of toy filed boxes and BSO TV.

[jimmyjimjim]

stemll said:

AC Lites (and presumably the others) will mesh, that's what mine do. Some combination of the Allow Meshing to and Allow Meshing from settings

https://help.ui.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002262328...

The one I have in the study only has a wireless link to the base and has a switch hanging off its ethernet port with wired devices on it. Not strictly supported by Unifi but it works just fine.

I know it will mesh. Just, as others have said, it can be temperamental about this, and have devices hang on the APs for too long. The point for me is that I can get 3 consumer grade TP-Link devices for less that the cost of a AP Pro (which is probably what I'd add), and likely less hassle. One early comment in the thread is that coverage in the home environment is the most important thing; I've not got enough wireless devices to stretch anything I get. Apart from the crappy wifi router centurylink supplied, but that's long dead.

[jimmyjimjim]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

For a £300 system I would have expect something more "Weapons Grade" that "Blue Peter Grade"....

This is my objection to Orbi - 3 TP-link or one AP Pro for $130. or 1/3 of Orbi.

[jimmyjimjim]

V8RAW said:

As previously mentioned earlier in the thread I would be running ethernet to various parts of the property and using small lower powered access points.

Pruned because I'm quoting a lot...

Largely my thinking. The two 'main' areas would be covered by hardwired devices. I'm thinking of the third as a fill in somewhere.

[paralla]

jimmyjimjim said:

This is my objection to Orbi - 3 TP-link or one AP Pro for $130. or 1/3 of Orbi.

There is a 164 page instruction manual that allows you to deep dive into the settings in a way the mobile app doesn't if you are after the full weapons grade experience. Mobile app is very consumer focused.

https://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/RBK50/...

[dmsims]

jimmyjimjim said:

This is my objection to Orbi - 3 TP-link or one AP Pro for $130. or 1/3 of Orbi.

Don't buy it then

Tenda/Deco/Orbi are all decent but bear in mind the thread title

[jimmyjimjim]

I didn't fancy starting a new thread 'decent wifi that isn't a complete pain in the stter to set up and costs both arms and a leg, but does the job'.

[anonymous-user]

jimmyjimjim said:

I didn't fancy starting a new thread 'decent wifi that isn't a complete pain in the stter to set up and costs both arms and a leg, but does the job'.

Deco is the answer to that question

[jimmyjimjim]

Largely what I thought, now, which bloody one....

[anonymous-user]

jimmyjimjim said:

Largely what I thought, now, which bloody one....

I have the M4 which I am very happy with it, but others have different and are also happy so base it on the area you need to cover I guess

[xeny]

jimmyjimjim said:

Because the unifi install is elderly, doesn't have a cloud key, and efforts last night with newer controller software to administer it, couldn't even find it. I've got the credentials, and was actually downloading the unifi app via the Lite, but could it find it, could it buggery. So it's either some convoluted pissing around ( which I'll try today) or give up and start from scratch..

You need a backup of the original software controller it was set up with, and feed that in to a new controller install look for a file with a .unf file extension, typically named with the controller version and the date e.g. "6.0.28-20201217-0622.unf"

a Unifi AP will only talk to a controller it doesn't know about until it has been "adopted" by a controller and configured. If you can't find a controller backup then hard reset it and start the config from scratch.

Given the physical constraints you're describing, a Flex HD sounds as if it would do the trick, but they're not cheap.

[megaphone]

xeny said:

jimmyjimjim said:

Because the unifi install is elderly, doesn't have a cloud key, and efforts last night with newer controller software to administer it, couldn't even find it. I've got the credentials, and was actually downloading the unifi app via the Lite, but could it find it, could it buggery. So it's either some convoluted pissing around ( which I'll try today) or give up and start from scratch..

You need a backup of the original software controller it was set up with, and feed that in to a new controller install look for a file with a .unf file extension, typically named with the controller version and the date e.g. "6.0.28-20201217-0622.unf"

a Unifi AP will only talk to a controller it doesn't know about until it has been "adopted" by a controller and configured. If you can't find a controller backup then hard reset it and start the config from scratch.

Given the physical constraints you're describing, a Flex HD sounds as if it would do the trick, but they're not cheap.

Jimmy did you originally use a controller to set it up? Or did you set it up in 'standalone' with the app.?

[jimmyjimjim]

xeny said:

jimmyjimjim said:

Because the unifi install is elderly, doesn't have a cloud key, and efforts last night with newer controller software to administer it, couldn't even find it. I've got the credentials, and was actually downloading the unifi app via the Lite, but could it find it, could it buggery. So it's either some convoluted pissing around ( which I'll try today) or give up and start from scratch..

You need a backup of the original software controller it was set up with, and feed that in to a new controller install look for a file with a .unf file extension, typically named with the controller version and the date e.g. "6.0.28-20201217-0622.unf"

a Unifi AP will only talk to a controller it doesn't know about until it has been "adopted" by a controller and configured. If you can't find a controller backup then hard reset it and start the config from scratch.

Given the physical constraints you're describing, a Flex HD sounds as if it would do the trick, but they're not cheap.

Hence my comment about flattening it and starting again....

I've got the PC it was configured from, but I'd have to find a graphics card, install that, bring it up, etc, etc.

In all honesty, I'm tending towards the Deco route, as a trial at least - free return through Amazon.

M4 or M5 or S4. It's not a huge house, M4 and S4 are the same price ($130). M5 is $150, but I prefer the look of the 4 series.

[jimmyjimjim]

megaphone said:

Jimmy did you originally use a controller to set it up? Or did you set it up in 'standalone' with the app.?

Standalone; see comment above.

[Gary C]

V8RAW said:

The reason for this is that mobile devices don't roam between access points. If a mobile device can still talk to the access point near your front door it will not switch to the access point you are sat next to in your garden shed.

Not true of a mesh though.

V8RAW said:

Meshing Wi-Fi used to cause a drop in throughput, not sure if it is an issue today.

It depends on the 'backhaul' topography. If it uses the same transmitter, then 1/2 of the capacity will be used for backhaul, a lot of mesh units can use ethernet for the backhaul, and some use a separate transmitter to run it (such as the BT premium disks or the Orbi Pro 6) and don't suffer a drop.

Edited by Gary C on Wednesday 10th February 17:50

[jimmyjimjim]

Ordered a Deco S4 three pack, wall mount, poe injector and splitter.
Also looking into forstner bits, grommets and currently wondering if I can wire from the basement into the garage then up into the master bedroom.

I'll wait to see how it turns out before drilling holes in the house.

Though if I did, i'd be able to reuse them. Tempting.

[ecs0set]

Gary C said:

V8RAW said:

The reason for this is that mobile devices don't roam between access points. If a mobile device can still talk to the access point near your front door it will not switch to the access point you are sat next to in your garden shed.

Not true of a mesh though.

V8RAW said:

Meshing Wi-Fi used to cause a drop in throughput, not sure if it is an issue today.

It depends on the 'backhaul' topography. If it uses the same transmitter, then 1/2 of the capacity will be used for backhaul, a lot of mesh units can use ethernet for the backhaul, and some use a separate transmitter to run it (such as the BT premium disks or the Orbi Pro 6) and don't suffer a drop.

Still lots of ambiguity over the term "mesh", even in the original request of "I just want 2 or more APs that connect via ethernet with poe back to the router and mesh together".

Consumer kit bastardises the terms but IMHO, multiple APs with a wired backhaul, shared SSID and centralised management is not a mesh! In this definition, "mesh" only makes sense with dynamically managed wireless backhaul.

I'm no expert but I also follow the assertion that devices choose to roam (and demonstrably can do so, not sure what's up with your setup V8RAW?), the APs (mesh or otherwise) only encourage them to do so.
See https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-ba...

So for jimmyjimjim, a Wi-Fi system with multiple APs, wired backhaul, shared SSID and centralised management is the same whether it's called "mesh" or if it's a Unifi/Meraki system. You are correct that a consumer system may be simpler to setup and manage, but at the cost of some configurability (which may not be important to you). Personally, I don't see that moving to another system is that much more effort than discovery and reprovisioning the existing Unifi AP (ISTR there is a Windows app which can help discovery).

If any of you ARE experts and are confident this is incorrect, please let me know - I'm about to buy 50k worth of Meraki kit for work!

[xeny]

ecs0set said:

IMHO, multiple APs with a wired backhaul, shared SSID and centralised management is not a mesh! In this definition, "mesh" only makes sense with dynamically managed wireless backhaul.

IMHO, the nature of the backhaul is irrelevant.

[seveb]

xeny said:

ecs0set said:

IMHO, multiple APs with a wired backhaul, shared SSID and centralised management is not a mesh! In this definition, "mesh" only makes sense with dynamically managed wireless backhaul.

IMHO, the nature of the backhaul is irrelevant.

And there we have it !

The nature of the 'backhaul' is very relevant. If you are buying a so called mesh system and it's using your available wifi channels to communicate between mesh devices then it's going to be slow and chew up significant time slots which ought to be available to your end points. This is why most mesh systems are utter rubbish and a waste of time and are never used in professional installations.

If the mesh system uses a different set of frequencies to communicate between mesh devices then you have a better chance to getting something that actually works well but you're still looking at consumer kit which is going to have capacity problems with multiple users/bandwidth etc.

The best option is to use ethernet between mid range access points which haver sufficient horsepower to support multiple users, streaming etc. This guarantees you all of the legal wifi channels will be available to you and you have as near as unlimited 'backhaul' to your router and the internet. This is always the correct answer to the wifi problem.... mesh is always the wrong answer.

Mesh is to wifi what fiberglass filler and Halfords rattle cans is to car restoration.

[dmsims]

In the real world of a domestic setting that's just utter nonsene.

Most people won't notice and don't care