Should i buy a macbook?
Discussion
Globulator said:
Noger said:
Some very defensive fanboy stuff
Touched a nerve?
iLife Rocks, get over it
MS fanboy ? To a certain extent. They allow me to do this. Nobody at Apple does. Yet. When they do I will drop MS devices like a stone. But currently I am a slave to MS.
Until then, you can keep your MacBook balanced on your knee as you pretend your "smallish" huge device can work on the sofa. I will on my back on the sofa surfing the internet with my finger
And to surf in bed you only need ONE hand - now that IS useful
LDNrevs said:
Apple is a hardware manufacturer according to their own PR, but its just not that simple. They bought out eMagic for Logic and they have FinalCut for film making. TBH, I don't like Apple's approach to software. They let Windows users on it if it suits, i.e consumer based (see iTunes - they have no choice) but for the niche software.. they make it Mac only so niche users must buy one if they like that software. If MS did the same there would surely be cries of 'foul play'. I never used Logic but it did used to be available on both platforms. As it happens, Apple apparently make no money from selling music through iTunes - so its the marriage of software and device (iPod) that makes them money.. this is something that they are very good at. There are many better mp3 players on the market but iPod has the 'cool' factor and it also works well with iTunes.
MS could in theory bundle all sorts of stuff with their OS but the amount of times that they've been through the courts.... rightly so in some cases, but wrongly so in others, means they have a fight on their hands if they do (see Google and Vista's default search). MS has begun making their studio video games playable on Mac which I think is a fair play and it should be that way; if only everything worked on everything..... as for Dell; they offer Linux on more than what has been suggested here, but I see the point that most 'average joes' won't even know what Linux is so it's almost irrelevant. With Windows based PC's I think it always best to custom build as you can have a ridiculously fast and powerful machine for peanuts. Again, most people won't bother.
I really want an EEE but I'm going to wait for a bigger screen.. the big black borders around the screen at present just put me off but this kind of affordable ultra portable machine is definetly going to do well.
As for Google apps, they're not up to scratch yet but I think browser based programs will also become the norm. Not sure about having all my docs stored online and at the mercy of Google .. then again they already have all my emails
No point comparing Apple and Microsoft on software.MS could in theory bundle all sorts of stuff with their OS but the amount of times that they've been through the courts.... rightly so in some cases, but wrongly so in others, means they have a fight on their hands if they do (see Google and Vista's default search). MS has begun making their studio video games playable on Mac which I think is a fair play and it should be that way; if only everything worked on everything..... as for Dell; they offer Linux on more than what has been suggested here, but I see the point that most 'average joes' won't even know what Linux is so it's almost irrelevant. With Windows based PC's I think it always best to custom build as you can have a ridiculously fast and powerful machine for peanuts. Again, most people won't bother.
I really want an EEE but I'm going to wait for a bigger screen.. the big black borders around the screen at present just put me off but this kind of affordable ultra portable machine is definetly going to do well.
As for Google apps, they're not up to scratch yet but I think browser based programs will also become the norm. Not sure about having all my docs stored online and at the mercy of Google .. then again they already have all my emails
Microsoft is a legal monopoly, and the rules are different for monopolies. Apple isn't a legal monopoly (unless you start down the frankly weird route of "they have a monopoly on Macs" which, while true, is like pointing out that Ford have a monopoly on Mondeos)
CommanderJameson said:
LDNrevs said:
Apple is a hardware manufacturer according to their own PR, but its just not that simple. They bought out eMagic for Logic and they have FinalCut for film making. TBH, I don't like Apple's approach to software. They let Windows users on it if it suits, i.e consumer based (see iTunes - they have no choice) but for the niche software.. they make it Mac only so niche users must buy one if they like that software. If MS did the same there would surely be cries of 'foul play'. I never used Logic but it did used to be available on both platforms. As it happens, Apple apparently make no money from selling music through iTunes - so its the marriage of software and device (iPod) that makes them money.. this is something that they are very good at. There are many better mp3 players on the market but iPod has the 'cool' factor and it also works well with iTunes.
MS could in theory bundle all sorts of stuff with their OS but the amount of times that they've been through the courts.... rightly so in some cases, but wrongly so in others, means they have a fight on their hands if they do (see Google and Vista's default search). MS has begun making their studio video games playable on Mac which I think is a fair play and it should be that way; if only everything worked on everything..... as for Dell; they offer Linux on more than what has been suggested here, but I see the point that most 'average joes' won't even know what Linux is so it's almost irrelevant. With Windows based PC's I think it always best to custom build as you can have a ridiculously fast and powerful machine for peanuts. Again, most people won't bother.
I really want an EEE but I'm going to wait for a bigger screen.. the big black borders around the screen at present just put me off but this kind of affordable ultra portable machine is definetly going to do well.
As for Google apps, they're not up to scratch yet but I think browser based programs will also become the norm. Not sure about having all my docs stored online and at the mercy of Google .. then again they already have all my emails
No point comparing Apple and Microsoft on software.MS could in theory bundle all sorts of stuff with their OS but the amount of times that they've been through the courts.... rightly so in some cases, but wrongly so in others, means they have a fight on their hands if they do (see Google and Vista's default search). MS has begun making their studio video games playable on Mac which I think is a fair play and it should be that way; if only everything worked on everything..... as for Dell; they offer Linux on more than what has been suggested here, but I see the point that most 'average joes' won't even know what Linux is so it's almost irrelevant. With Windows based PC's I think it always best to custom build as you can have a ridiculously fast and powerful machine for peanuts. Again, most people won't bother.
I really want an EEE but I'm going to wait for a bigger screen.. the big black borders around the screen at present just put me off but this kind of affordable ultra portable machine is definetly going to do well.
As for Google apps, they're not up to scratch yet but I think browser based programs will also become the norm. Not sure about having all my docs stored online and at the mercy of Google .. then again they already have all my emails
Microsoft is a legal monopoly, and the rules are different for monopolies. Apple isn't a legal monopoly (unless you start down the frankly weird route of "they have a monopoly on Macs" which, while true, is like pointing out that Ford have a monopoly on Mondeos)
I said that there are indeed comaparions that can be made between MS and Apple when it comes to software. Since Apple is not just a hardware company as they would have people believe.. they do peddle software also.
jamieboy said:
At what point did it tell you you couldn't buy one? A screenshot would be good. Without that the sub-point, as you put it, remains tantalisingly unproven either way.
Apologies to the OP for being so far off-topic.
The last time I tried I followed a link from 'The Register' - a few months ago now.Apologies to the OP for being so far off-topic.
I was shocked by the paucity of choice (2 machines) but could not get through to a UK price checkout.
I've tried this time at www.dell.co.uk - have a look!
Lots of Vista. Lots of XP even. So much for Dell selling PCs with Linux - I can't even find the word 'linux' on their site now!! Not even sure where to start looking (Google is not a valid test
)Post a link?
Globulator said:
jamieboy said:
At what point did it tell you you couldn't buy one? A screenshot would be good. Without that the sub-point, as you put it, remains tantalisingly unproven either way.
Apologies to the OP for being so far off-topic.
The last time I tried I followed a link from 'The Register' - a few months ago now.Apologies to the OP for being so far off-topic.
I was shocked by the paucity of choice (2 machines) but could not get through to a UK price checkout.
I've tried this time at www.dell.co.uk - have a look!
Lots of Vista. Lots of XP even. So much for Dell selling PCs with Linux - I can't even find the word 'linux' on their site now!! Not even sure where to start looking (Google is not a valid test
)Post a link?
I agree, almost impossible to fathom.
jamieboy said:
Go to www.dell.co.uk - once it's redirected you, put 'linux' in the search box.
I agree, almost impossible to fathom.
Impossible to fathom for everyone who doesn't search for 'Linux' I agree, almost impossible to fathom.
Not sure that qualifies really as 'choice'.
i.e. If your mum went to the Dell site - would she have that choice?
Still - for the purposes of experimentation I'll assume I'm a psychic from Enfield whose tea leaves formed the words 'find linux in dell'
LDNrevs said:
Just to re-state the point earlier in the thread - the cost of hardware is very similar to equivalent PC laptops. If you take the mid-range £830 Macbook - a 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, the cheapest PC on dabs with that processor is a Toshiba at £766. But that's a chunky 15.4" screened one that weighs a fair bit more while delivering poorer battery life. Let's refine it to ones with a 13.3" screen like the Macbook. Now the cheapest is a Samsung Q70 at £889. It has more RAM (woo, it costs pennies these days) and a bit more disk but essentially the same thing. Only no camera, it can't run OSX and will be worth about 50p if I sold it on next year.
Edited by sjg on Monday 17th December 23:49
I support offices with PC's, and some with Mac's
They buy the machine for the job, graphic designers and studios have Mac's mostly but have been moving over to PC's of late.
I personally don't like Macs as they dont fit into my way of working, and they make it as difficult as possible to export out to other types of computer. Try exporting out of the Mac email client to a PC and you will know what I mean
However the iphone is a fantastic bit of kit, and their hardware for the laptops is as stated well built and reasonable for the task.
I have not done a repair on a Mac since they switched to Intel, but I do remember the parts being horrendously expensive compared to the equivalent PC manufacturer cost.
As stated by other posters on here, see what features will benefit you in the long run and go for it.
Failing that, I think you can now do an XP / OSX dualboot on them anyway...
TCC
They buy the machine for the job, graphic designers and studios have Mac's mostly but have been moving over to PC's of late.
I personally don't like Macs as they dont fit into my way of working, and they make it as difficult as possible to export out to other types of computer. Try exporting out of the Mac email client to a PC and you will know what I mean
However the iphone is a fantastic bit of kit, and their hardware for the laptops is as stated well built and reasonable for the task.
I have not done a repair on a Mac since they switched to Intel, but I do remember the parts being horrendously expensive compared to the equivalent PC manufacturer cost.
As stated by other posters on here, see what features will benefit you in the long run and go for it.
Failing that, I think you can now do an XP / OSX dualboot on them anyway...
TCC
LDNrevs said:
sjg said:
LDNrevs said:
That screen though....
me, imagine a quadruple sized iPod Touch with that resolution and a full version of OS X What's the battery life like, as a matter of interest, Noger? That sort of device would only make sense to me with iPhone-like battery life i.e. a whole business day, recharge every night. If the machine only works for 2-3 hours before packing in then UMPCs still have a long way to go...
TheCarpetCleaner said:
I personally don't like Macs as they dont fit into my way of working, and they make it as difficult as possible to export out to other types of computer. Try exporting out of the Mac email client to a PC and you will know what I mean
I think you have that bass-ackwards. The issue (and one of the many reasons I hate it) is the difficulty of moving data in and out of Windows.sjg said:
LDNrevs said:
Although to be fair it is exactly the same size as my Apple Newton 2000U, the cases are interchangable ! So not exactly an innovation is formfactor You may mock now, but there is a lot of activity in the area.
McCaslin has been a bit of a nonstarter (bit of a stopgap - performance suffered but 6 hours of battery ain't bad), but Menlow next year is going to very very interesting.
The Intel UbuntuMobile hookup could be good. Maemo/Debian is already on the Nokia MID Devices. You can already get a RedHat UMPC (the Pepper Pad - very nice but tricky to get in Europe).
Microsoft are crapping themselves because Vista is just too bloated for this sort of application. Even with the Origami Experience front end it is still "Windows" through and through. And Windows Mobile isn't up to the job, that is being totally re-written because they know how bad it is (was reading an interview with the WM team recently, where they admit as much).
So unless they figured out a while back that mobile devices need a cut down OS and a different GUI, they are pretty much out of the equation.
That leaves Apple. And the reputed 20% bigger iPod touch device. Just not sure they have the balls to re-invent the Newton.
So if you are interested in non-Microsoft gear then simply looking at the Dell site is a bit pointless. Dell sell to corporations. Corporations want Windows. Or a Linux from someone they can kick when it doesn't do what they want. There are areas, such as the UMPC and MID, that are meant to be cheap, and this is prime country for Linux.
If you solely focus on the software side of things, you may find you are blindsided by the slow (often painful) growing hardware movement that is coming along behind.
Noger said:
If you solely focus on the software side of things, you may find you are blindsided by the slow (often painful) growing hardware movement that is coming along behind.
What - like the multi-touch iPhone that surprised the hell out of everyone?You're right - will Apple have the balls to re-invent the Newton??? but they've got the tech and the OS to do it. MS don't - apart from their big table demo which I'm not sure is scalable. Is there anything in the Linux space that can do what the iPhone can do?
The ironic thing is that the iPhone (and iPod Touch) *is* all software... yes the multi-touch screen is an advance on existing capacitive devices but the control and input is all software - witness the software upgrade that got double-finger scrolling on old Powerbooks that never originally had that feature...
cyberface said:
That screen though.... me, imagine a quadruple sized iPod Touch with that resolution and a full version of OS X
:drools: me, imagine a quadruple sized iPod Touch with that resolution and a full version of OS X cyberface said:
What's the battery life like, as a matter of interest, Noger? That sort of device would only make sense to me with iPhone-like battery life i.e. a whole business day, recharge every night. If the machine only works for 2-3 hours before packing in then UMPCs still have a long way to go...
6 hours with the extended battery (which came as standard), which actually makes it easier hold and isn't much heavier. The one in the picture has it, can you tell ? That isn't me by the way !No bull, you can surf for 6 hours no worries. The downside is the performance, but as I said, McCaslin is just a stopgap, Menlow will hopefully be the one that delivers the dream.
cyberface said:
You're right - will Apple have the balls to re-invent the Newton??? but they've got the tech and the OS to do it. MS don't - apart from their big table demo which I'm not sure is scalable. Is there anything in the Linux space that can do what the iPhone can do?
The ironic thing is that the iPhone (and iPod Touch) *is* all software... yes the multi-touch screen is an advance on existing capacitive devices but the control and input is all software - witness the software upgrade that got double-finger scrolling on old Powerbooks that never originally had that feature...
Yes, you have Inkwell already (although like the HWR in Vista, most people don't realise it is there, or need it !). So that is sorted.The ironic thing is that the iPhone (and iPod Touch) *is* all software... yes the multi-touch screen is an advance on existing capacitive devices but the control and input is all software - witness the software upgrade that got double-finger scrolling on old Powerbooks that never originally had that feature...
Although perhaps Inkwell needs a tweak or two. http://journals.tuxreports.com/lch/archives/004427...
The bit that has me foxed is how to deal with vectoring whilst handwriting. It is not an issue on a Touch/iPhone sized device, your palm doesn't touch the screen. On the big tablets, you use an active digitiser, so multi-touch is out.
How the heck do you get something to switch in and out of multitouch when you need it (using your fingers to navigate) and when you don't (resting your hand on the screen when writing with a stylus).
You can't ditch the stylus, can you ? Apple must know just how quick switching a Newton on and scrawling some notes and a quick sketch is, compared to typing something in with a virtual keyboard.
Noger said:
You can already get a RedHat UMPC (the Pepper Pad - very nice but tricky to get in Europe).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pad-3-Internet-Tablet-Black/dp/B000G0OKFU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1197972204&sr=1-1 
£426.35 + p&p
I have both those devices sitting on my desk. Although the Q1 I have is the newer version.
The knockout punch was that the original Samsung had a 2 hour battery life. This is now 6 hours. So not so knockout. It probably needs to be more, and will be.
It is fairly pointless excercise to compare the two, what is more interesting is to imagine what the offspring would be like.
The Newton does a lot of things so very very well it makes you wonder whether the people who design Windows ink based apps ever even bother to say "How would the Newton have done this". I doubt they do.
The knockout punch was that the original Samsung had a 2 hour battery life. This is now 6 hours. So not so knockout. It probably needs to be more, and will be.
It is fairly pointless excercise to compare the two, what is more interesting is to imagine what the offspring would be like.
The Newton does a lot of things so very very well it makes you wonder whether the people who design Windows ink based apps ever even bother to say "How would the Newton have done this". I doubt they do.
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