Long Range WiFi Hardware?

[TheExcession]

Currently looking into sharing my broadband connection with the old man. Trouble is he's about 4 miles away and round a hill.

So, we're looking at repeating reasonably long range wireless LAN.

Chatting to the 'lads' and the Linksys WRT54GS seems to be the dogs danglies, it runs a Linux OS Firmware which I hear can be modified to up the power a little.

Besides that there is also the choice of antenna. We've agreed an instalation with a neighbour that will give us line of site, and so they'll get to use the broadband access too.

So, question to the PH massive, anyone got any pointers for high gain directional and omni directional antennas? And, anyone got experience of using these access points? Or done something similar?

Needless to say, with 'cheaper is better' being my middle name we are looking for the least outlay possible, however I do want something reliable.

Over to you lot...

best
Ex

[-DeaDLocK-]

4 miles??

I don't have an answer but I have a hard enough time getting a good signal at 15 feet let alone 4 miles!

Very curious to see if what you want done is easy and reliable.

[malman]

I'm sure you could COOK something up from here
www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/

bad-um tis

this one looks pretty good if you want omni directional

http://wireless.gumph.org/articles/homemadeomni.html

[dilbert]

I doubt that you're going to get 4 miles on standard WiFi hardware, but I could be wrong.

I don't know how the regulations work for wifi, but I can garantee that the Hammers won't like it whatever. I doubt that they'll help, but I could be wrong. All this FMCW digital stuff is screwing up their comms. Sprogs, I think they call them.

Depending on the regulations, you may be able to use a spiral for transmit, but that might not be acceptable.

I'm just about to have my tea, but I'll have a look after, and dig out some antenna suppliers.

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

TheExcession said:

Currently looking into sharing my broadband connection with the old man. Trouble is he's about 4 miles away and round a hill.

2.4GHz does not go through hills. No ground wave at that frequency either. Sorry.

[Muncher]

I very much doubt you'd get any signal at all over that length, let about anything usable.

Using most 2.4Ghz kit you'd do well to get a decent signal over 200m let alone 4 miles.

[TheExcession]

ThatPhilBrettGuy said:

TheExcession said: Currently looking into sharing my broadband connection with the old man. Trouble is he's about 4 miles away and round a hill. 2.4GHz does not go through hills. No ground wave at that frequency either. Sorry.

Hence the cooperative neighbour that will give us line of sight.

I've seen reports of wireless LAN going tens of km so a few miles shouldn't be an issue.

Just wondered if anyone had done it and what kit they are using.

best
Ex

btw, don't you lot have jobs to go to? Why are you up so late....

[dilbert]

I think if you put enough grunt behind a signal, have a sensitive enough receiver, you can get all the way to Alpha Centauri.

On the other hand, the Radiocommunications agency might get upset. I think I'll pass on the antenna suppliers.

[TheExcession]

See? You guy's are all doom and gloom....

some antenna guy said:

Apparently, antennas of comparable gain cost upwards of $150. Over a clear line of sight, with short antenna cable runs, a 12db to 12db can-to-can shot should be able to carry an 11Mbps link well over ten miles.

www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448

best
Ex

[TheExcession]

malman said:

I'm sure you could COOK something up from here <a href="http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/">www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/</a>

Ahhh, yes, seen this page before, great stuff but relies on a USB antenna, where unfortunatley our cable run won't support USB. Seen some good antennas built on those little wire frame wok type thingies, very similar.

malman said:

this one looks pretty good if you want omni directional <a href="http://wireless.gumph.org/articles/homemadeomni.html">http://wireless.gumph.org/articles/homemadeomni.html</a>

Just get page forbidden for this link

best
Ex
EFART

>> Edited by TheExcession on Monday 4th April 01:19

[bogie]

technically with retail 2.4Ghz kit you can get out to 24 miles. Ive installed/troubleshooted links up to 10 miles on normal consumer kit.

All kit sold here outputs around 20dBM (the limit), then stick say an 18dBi directional antenna on it. The problem you will have is getting your antennas high enough to get good line of sight - do a search on 'fresnel zone' and get a calculator to work out just how much clearance you will need for a 4 mile link - from memory you may need a 15m diameter cone around your Line of sight to stand a chance.........

[TheExcession]

bogie said:

technically with retail 2.4Ghz kit you can get out to 24 miles. Ive installed/troubleshooted links up to 10 miles on normal consumer kit. All kit sold here outputs around 20dBM (the limit), then stick say an 18dBi directional antenna on it. The problem you will have is getting your antennas high enough to get good line of sight - do a search on 'fresnel zone' and get a calculator to work out just how much clearance you will need for a 4 mile link - from memory you may need a 15m diameter cone around your Line of sight to stand a chance.........

Good news, thanks!

I was looking at Fresnel Zones earlier and they might cause a bit of a problem, but I guess a few field tests swill sort that. Stil trying to get hold of some detailed maps of the area so we can plot this kind of stuff.

Would you mind indicating what hardware (AP and Antenna) you used to get your links working?

best
Ex

[BrianThePirate]

bogie said:

technically with retail 2.4Ghz kit you can get out to 24 miles.

You serious?

[zumbruk]

Possibly a red herring, but the UK DX record on 24GHz is 391km...

[malman]

TheExcession said:

malman said: I'm sure you could COOK something up from here <a href="http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/"><a href="http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/"><a href="http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/"><a href="http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/">www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/</a></a></a></a> Ahhh, yes, seen this page before, great stuff but relies on a USB antenna, where unfortunatley our cable run won't support USB. Seen some good antennas built on those little wire frame wok type thingies, very similar. malman said: this one looks pretty good if you want omni directional <a href="http://wireless.gumph.org/articles/homemadeomni.html"><a href="http://wireless.gumph.org/articles/homemadeomni.html"><a href="http://wireless.gumph.org/articles/homemadeomni.html"><a href="http://wireless.gumph.org/articles/homemadeomni.html">http://wireless.gumph.org/articles/homemadeomni.html</a></a></a></a> Just get page forbidden for this link best Ex EFART >> Edited by TheExcession on Monday 4th April 01:19

The only reason they used usb devices is because usb cable is cheap compared to 2.4Ghz antenna cable and there is no signal loss. If you can afford the quality cable then the principles still apply. I've seen a page where a guy encased the entire AP in a parabolic and ran cat5 out the back (Dlink AP I think)

Omin - page
Thats weird page still works for me and I'm on a different connection at the moment

>> Edited by malman on Monday 4th April 10:38

>> Edited by malman on Monday 4th April 10:42

[beanbag]

I've actually done this myself already for a client. I used a D-Link hardware. It wasn't cheap and required a bit of fiddling about but it worked in the end.

However, the distance I covered was 1.5miles on the same estate. (This guy is loaded and his mother lives on the other side of his land in a little cottage which cannot get broadband).

You need a compass and it works best if you have some coordinates to work from (GPS is best).

The range of the hardware is actually about 4 miles but that's the limit. Unless your father can get broadband, your better off purchases a broadband connection for him as the hardware cost my client about £850 and then my costs on top to set it up.

If you need any advice, send me an email!

[roop]

I have done this several times. Standard 802.11b/g WiFi hardware and high gain directional antennas can give you a reliable link over 10km+. I have done 4km no probs.

I highly recommend contacting Solwise with your requirements, they are specialists in this kit and they will sort you out. Their pre-sales tech guys are proper techies and know what they are on about rather than some moron reading from a catalogue.

www.solwise.co.uk

The WAP-54G's are pretty good and easy to set up to repeat. Avoid the WAG-54G ADSL WiFi thing though. POS.

Any further questions, feel free to mail me through my profile.

HTH,

Roop

[ErnestM]

LinkSys also do a line of "signal boosters" that you could install along your connection in areas where it starts to drop off (provided you have power available):

www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=38&prid=629



ErnestM

[TheExcession]

roop said:

www.solwise.co.uk|www.solwise.co.uk

Cheers Roop, great site, prices look very reaonable too. Will definately be giving these guys a call.

best
Ex

[bogie]

Yes Im serious with the distance - Im a certified Wireless Systems/Field engineer and do a lot of this stuff for a living

boosters etc are mostly illegal over here - the limit for EIRP is 20dBM, so unless you have unusually long antenna cables then theres no requirement for them - many people think that just by throwing more power at something it will cure their problems, but a properly designed and installed system will work with less power than the legal limit over long distances just fine



Theres a couple of local WISP's I know that use Netgear kit very sucessfully - ME103s and lately WG102s with 18dBi patch antennas, and 9dBi omnis. You can use Cisco or Colubris stuff etc but its very expensive. The Netgear stuff in the blue tin enlclosures is from the business class range and will do the job fine.