Internet in new loft bedoom
Discussion
Hi, pls escuse some really basic questions.
We current have just 1 WiFi model/router in the house (BT Smarthub) and get good coverage. However we are doing a loft conversion so I am trying to make sure of good Internet connection in the loft. Current router is located in hallway on ground floor.
I was thinking if I can run an external grade ethernet cable (like one below) and plug one end into back of router and the other end into an access point?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VOIETOLT-Ethernet-Outdoor...
In practice does this mean I have 2 separate WiFi networks IDs so will need to.keep switching between the 2 networks around the rest of the house? If so, am I better off with Mesh WiFi unit rather than running ethernet or mixture of both I. E a mesh WiFi and physical cable between ground floor and loft? Any other suggestions welcome. I hear this home networking term a lot but I don't fully understand the benefits and requirements of ethernet switches etc so just trying to keep it simple for now.
Thanks for reading my message.
We current have just 1 WiFi model/router in the house (BT Smarthub) and get good coverage. However we are doing a loft conversion so I am trying to make sure of good Internet connection in the loft. Current router is located in hallway on ground floor.
I was thinking if I can run an external grade ethernet cable (like one below) and plug one end into back of router and the other end into an access point?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VOIETOLT-Ethernet-Outdoor...
In practice does this mean I have 2 separate WiFi networks IDs so will need to.keep switching between the 2 networks around the rest of the house? If so, am I better off with Mesh WiFi unit rather than running ethernet or mixture of both I. E a mesh WiFi and physical cable between ground floor and loft? Any other suggestions welcome. I hear this home networking term a lot but I don't fully understand the benefits and requirements of ethernet switches etc so just trying to keep it simple for now.
Thanks for reading my message.
Cabled is better if you can do it, but can look messy/difficult to hide. You can set the SSID of the access point to be the same as the main network, and it’ll work as one. Devices can be difficult though, not automatically handing off between APs with the stronger signal. Mesh fixes that. Doesn’t matter what type you go for, I have these in my 3 storey house and get strong, reliable WiFi all over. https://amzn.eu/d/76yVaxg
ETA: I have 2 x powerline, wireless APs, both on different sides of the first floor. They broadcast through ceilings/floors well, so the whole house gets a strong signal. I’ve turned off WiFi on my router and the powerlines work it out between them.
ETA: I have 2 x powerline, wireless APs, both on different sides of the first floor. They broadcast through ceilings/floors well, so the whole house gets a strong signal. I’ve turned off WiFi on my router and the powerlines work it out between them.
Edited by Len Clifton on Thursday 22 May 13:05
Mesh doesn’t really do anything about handover between access points it’s really controlled by the devices themselves.
You need to get to WiFi 6e / 7 before there’s some control and often it’s simply if a device drops below a given db level it’s disconnected.
Obviously you can spend thousands to get a better system but bittom to mid devices don’t have this functionality.
You need to get to WiFi 6e / 7 before there’s some control and often it’s simply if a device drops below a given db level it’s disconnected.
Obviously you can spend thousands to get a better system but bittom to mid devices don’t have this functionality.
Captain_Morgan said:
Mesh doesn’t really do anything about handover between access points it’s really controlled by the devices themselves.
You need to get to WiFi 6e / 7 before there’s some control and often it’s simply if a device drops below a given db level it’s disconnected.
Obviously you can spend thousands to get a better system but bittom to mid devices don’t have this functionality.
That’s incorrect. Not all WiFi APs support (IEEE) fast roaming, these do and it’s configurable. It’s called 802.11rYou need to get to WiFi 6e / 7 before there’s some control and often it’s simply if a device drops below a given db level it’s disconnected.
Obviously you can spend thousands to get a better system but bittom to mid devices don’t have this functionality.
https://www.devolo.co.uk/glossary/fast-roaming
Edited by Len Clifton on Friday 23 May 09:11
Quick and cheap go for powerline adapters, you will loose some speed understandably, but probably not significant.
Mesh would be the slickest option, I have several mesh AP around the house and never have any drop outs, plus they have a 1 network port so you can hardwire if required also. You'll need a minimum of 2, one connected to the router and one upstairs (doesn't need to be in the loft, just high enough to get signal into the loft).
Mesh would be the slickest option, I have several mesh AP around the house and never have any drop outs, plus they have a 1 network port so you can hardwire if required also. You'll need a minimum of 2, one connected to the router and one upstairs (doesn't need to be in the loft, just high enough to get signal into the loft).
You're always going to get a better connecting with a cable than with wireless repeaters or mesh, so worth putting one in if you can, but a wireless repeater or mesh setup will do the job if not. Wireless repeaters or mesh nodes are dependent on how good the signal is where you place the device. Wired devices will always have a fast connection.
If you go for the cable approach, and plan to install it permanently rather than just run a cable round behind the furniture, then personally I'd go for a wall socket on either end of the cable, and then use another cable the connect your devices to it. Much neater than a cable just sticking out of a hole in the wall, and if you're DIYing it, it's a lot easier to fit a socket to a cable than is to fit a plug.
We're getting a roof extension done at the moment as as the builders need to run extra power cables up there anyway I've asked them to run an ethernet cable as well.
If you go for the cable approach, and plan to install it permanently rather than just run a cable round behind the furniture, then personally I'd go for a wall socket on either end of the cable, and then use another cable the connect your devices to it. Much neater than a cable just sticking out of a hole in the wall, and if you're DIYing it, it's a lot easier to fit a socket to a cable than is to fit a plug.
We're getting a roof extension done at the moment as as the builders need to run extra power cables up there anyway I've asked them to run an ethernet cable as well.
Our FFTP router is in the back office extension to the garage / house, and there are brick internal walls.
At the router on the router WiFi SSID, I can get 500Mbps down and 70Mbps up:
On the Tenda MW6 mesh WiFi that has it's own SSID, I get a much more disappointing 40Mbps down and 25Mbps up:
I've no idea whether it's the quality of the mesh system generally, the settings of the mesh OS or something else. I'm not impressed with the difference in speeds but I'm not prepared to rip things up to network the house, and I'm reluctant to replace the mesh system needlessly.
I have 5 mesh boxes: 1 at the router, 1 ground, 1 1st floor, 1 loft and 1 office.
I'm not a gamer, but WFH and use data hungry apps and there are times when I have to shut them down to do Teams calls at the same time. Also, running a bunch of smart switches, plus a couple of iPads / smartphones / smart TVs and a VR headset can tax the bandwidth generally.
So, mesh is good....but it depends.
At the router on the router WiFi SSID, I can get 500Mbps down and 70Mbps up:
On the Tenda MW6 mesh WiFi that has it's own SSID, I get a much more disappointing 40Mbps down and 25Mbps up:
I've no idea whether it's the quality of the mesh system generally, the settings of the mesh OS or something else. I'm not impressed with the difference in speeds but I'm not prepared to rip things up to network the house, and I'm reluctant to replace the mesh system needlessly.
I have 5 mesh boxes: 1 at the router, 1 ground, 1 1st floor, 1 loft and 1 office.
I'm not a gamer, but WFH and use data hungry apps and there are times when I have to shut them down to do Teams calls at the same time. Also, running a bunch of smart switches, plus a couple of iPads / smartphones / smart TVs and a VR headset can tax the bandwidth generally.
So, mesh is good....but it depends.
Dr_Rick said:
On the Tenda MW6 mesh WiFi that has it's own SSID, I get a much more disappointing 40Mbps down and 25Mbps up:
The speed of the wifi you can get through the mesh node is completely dependent on the quality of the signal it receives from its parent node. Try using a wifi signal strength app like WiFiman to see how good the signal is around the house, and place the mesh node somewhere with a good signal. I have an access point in my bedroom, and directly above it in the spare room, through a foot or so of concrete, I get a pretty decent signal, however even a couple of meters away in any direction the signal drops off significantly as the signal has to pass through several feet of concrete as the angle increases.
RizzoTheRat said:
The speed of the wifi you can get through the mesh node is completely dependent on the quality of the signal it receives from its parent node. Try using a wifi signal strength app like WiFiman to see how good the signal is around the house, and place the mesh node somewhere with a good signal.
I have an access point in my bedroom, and directly above it in the spare room, through a foot or so of concrete, I get a pretty decent signal, however even a couple of meters away in any direction the signal drops off significantly as the signal has to pass through several feet of concrete as the angle increases.
(Apologies for takeover)I have an access point in my bedroom, and directly above it in the spare room, through a foot or so of concrete, I get a pretty decent signal, however even a couple of meters away in any direction the signal drops off significantly as the signal has to pass through several feet of concrete as the angle increases.
Using WiFiman, on the mesh node in my office I'm seeing 12.6Mbps down and 19Mbps up. Signal strength -33dBm.
When I switch to the mesh node cat5 connected to the router I see 51Mbps down and 33Mbps up. Signal strength -59dBm.
When I switch to the router wifi I see 500Mbps down and 72Mbps up. Signal strength -33dBm.
All of them are with me standing <2m clear space to the emitter in question. The mesh system is setup using the default options, although there does appear to be a 'Bridge' connection type and I've got Dynamic IP ticked. I'm not knowledgeable enough to go changing settings.
Len Clifton said:
Captain_Morgan said:
Mesh doesn’t really do anything about handover between access points it’s really controlled by the devices themselves.
You need to get to WiFi 6e / 7 before there’s some control and often it’s simply if a device drops below a given db level it’s disconnected.
Obviously you can spend thousands to get a better system but bittom to mid devices don’t have this functionality.
That’s incorrect. Not all WiFi APs support (IEEE) fast roaming, these do and it’s configurable. It’s called 802.11rYou need to get to WiFi 6e / 7 before there’s some control and often it’s simply if a device drops below a given db level it’s disconnected.
Obviously you can spend thousands to get a better system but bittom to mid devices don’t have this functionality.
https://www.devolo.co.uk/glossary/fast-roaming
Edited by Len Clifton on Friday 23 May 09:11
https://www.networkcomputing.com/wi-fi/wifi-fast-r...
The login process is speeded up but it still requires the host device to look for a alternate access point.
There nothing about 802.11r actively redirecting clients to nodes with better throughput, it simply speeds up the process when the are moved to a new node - unless I’ve misunderstood.
xyz123 said:
Hi, pls escuse some really basic questions.
We current have just 1 WiFi model/router in the house (BT Smarthub) and get good coverage. However we are doing a loft conversion so I am trying to make sure of good Internet connection in the loft. Current router is located in hallway on ground floor.
I was thinking if I can run an external grade ethernet cable (like one below) and plug one end into back of router and the other end into an access point?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VOIETOLT-Ethernet-Outdoor...
In practice does this mean I have 2 separate WiFi networks IDs so will need to.keep switching between the 2 networks around the rest of the house? If so, am I better off with Mesh WiFi unit rather than running ethernet or mixture of both I. E a mesh WiFi and physical cable between ground floor and loft? Any other suggestions welcome. I hear this home networking term a lot but I don't fully understand the benefits and requirements of ethernet switches etc so just trying to keep it simple for now.
Thanks for reading my message.
If you are okay installing the ethernet link then that will give you the best performance.We current have just 1 WiFi model/router in the house (BT Smarthub) and get good coverage. However we are doing a loft conversion so I am trying to make sure of good Internet connection in the loft. Current router is located in hallway on ground floor.
I was thinking if I can run an external grade ethernet cable (like one below) and plug one end into back of router and the other end into an access point?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VOIETOLT-Ethernet-Outdoor...
In practice does this mean I have 2 separate WiFi networks IDs so will need to.keep switching between the 2 networks around the rest of the house? If so, am I better off with Mesh WiFi unit rather than running ethernet or mixture of both I. E a mesh WiFi and physical cable between ground floor and loft? Any other suggestions welcome. I hear this home networking term a lot but I don't fully understand the benefits and requirements of ethernet switches etc so just trying to keep it simple for now.
Thanks for reading my message.
Then a wireless mesh system and finally powerlink based system from a throughput perspective.
Obviously a wireless mesh system will go from around £100 and up depending on its specification.
I’ve not looked at powerlink options for a while but I suspect they are around £150 and up.
The least expensive is your existing router which is the cost of the ethernet cable and a access point which starts around £30 and up.
For your case the access point sounds more than reasonable imho.
Dr_Rick said:
RizzoTheRat said:
The speed of the wifi you can get through the mesh node is completely dependent on the quality of the signal it receives from its parent node. Try using a wifi signal strength app like WiFiman to see how good the signal is around the house, and place the mesh node somewhere with a good signal.
I have an access point in my bedroom, and directly above it in the spare room, through a foot or so of concrete, I get a pretty decent signal, however even a couple of meters away in any direction the signal drops off significantly as the signal has to pass through several feet of concrete as the angle increases.
(Apologies for takeover)I have an access point in my bedroom, and directly above it in the spare room, through a foot or so of concrete, I get a pretty decent signal, however even a couple of meters away in any direction the signal drops off significantly as the signal has to pass through several feet of concrete as the angle increases.
Using WiFiman, on the mesh node in my office I'm seeing 12.6Mbps down and 19Mbps up. Signal strength -33dBm.
When I switch to the mesh node cat5 connected to the router I see 51Mbps down and 33Mbps up. Signal strength -59dBm.
When I switch to the router wifi I see 500Mbps down and 72Mbps up. Signal strength -33dBm.
All of them are with me standing <2m clear space to the emitter in question. The mesh system is setup using the default options, although there does appear to be a 'Bridge' connection type and I've got Dynamic IP ticked. I'm not knowledgeable enough to go changing settings.
I recall some tenda systems have a 100Mb network connection rather than a 1Gb connection this means you would never see anything above a 100Mb/s.
The other issues could be the system is dual band rather than tri band this means the network link between mesh nodes also carrys device based data, this generally means each link in the node can halve you throughput. So depending where the nodes are you could go through 2-4 nodes which could have a significant impact on performance.
Obviously you’ll need to look into your devices to confirm that this is the case.
Dr_Rick said:
On the Tenda MW6 mesh WiFi that has it's own SSID, I get a much more disappointing 40Mbps down and 25Mbps up:
Cannot remember if someone has already mentioned earlier MW6 is only dual band with 2 antennas. I have both MW6s and MW12s and recently I’ve upgraded all the MW6s in the house to 12s because they simply perform better with tri-band, and 4 antennas instead of 2. Sizewise the MW12 and MW6s are identical but you just have to pick them up to tell the MW12 have more stuff inside.I had planned on forking out some ££££ on a WiFi6 mesh network, but actually WiFi5 (ac) through the MW12s work perfectly fine for GeForceNow streaming to the Quest 3 headset for 1440P resolution. Our home boardband is ‘fake’ fibre to the junction box, so 70Mbps is the max speed possible, upgrading to WiFi6 at this stage makes no difference to WiFi performance sadly. The cost to upgrade from M6 to MW12s is pretty cheap though for a noticeable performance gain.
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