Why are Gallardos so expensive...
Discussion
Why are Gallardos so expensive...when compared to Ferrari's?
They didn't really move out of the showrooms against the 360 or CS, now the 430 is coming for 15K less, what will Lambo do with their pricing? Top Marques is full of Gallardo's, all asking list, all with very low mileage (look like pre-regs) but how can they when there are 25 or more for sale at any one time?
Conversely, try and find a 1-2 year old 360 of a particular colour/spec, you'll be lucky! Surely Lambo have to drop 15-20K off their prices soon?
They didn't really move out of the showrooms against the 360 or CS, now the 430 is coming for 15K less, what will Lambo do with their pricing? Top Marques is full of Gallardo's, all asking list, all with very low mileage (look like pre-regs) but how can they when there are 25 or more for sale at any one time?
Conversely, try and find a 1-2 year old 360 of a particular colour/spec, you'll be lucky! Surely Lambo have to drop 15-20K off their prices soon?
thanks for the reply, I can't see how a Gallardo is substantially 'more' than a 360 or 575. With the new gizmos in the 430, it would be fair to say Ferrari have the technological edge. A Gallardo is still more expensive than a 360 Spider, it doesn't seem to add up.
Maybe US pricing is different than UK pricing?
Maybe US pricing is different than UK pricing?
allanlambo said:
Ferrari creates a false market, holds back production.
In the U.S. Gallardos sell very well, and they are priced perfectly as they are substantially more car than a 360 or a 575, and the new 430 is disspointing as well. Ferrari is going straight downhill very quickly.
I can understand you having that perspective as a Lambo owner and fan, but I think that is way off from reality.
No way is the Gallardo more than the 430 or 575. Different, but not more of a car.
Murcialago , granted, has no real Ferrari equivalent IMO.
Objectively, I would say that the 430 is a welcome improvement and upgrade over the 360.
It still leaves the Gallardo looking over priced.
And the market agrees - which is why Gallardo resale value is softening now.
As a Porsche man who is likely to step to either Lambo or Ferrari in the months ahead, the 430 looks very tempting.
I may be a Lambo owner and fan, but im also a Ferrari owner, and have been for quite sometime. Having owned many different Fcars, and driven 1000's of miles in both 360's and 550's, i can tell you that what i feel is that a:
In terms of styling the Gallardo is much more exotic to me. Ive never been a fan of the 550. It looks too supra-ish to me. The 360 is ok, but nothing special. Ferrari is out to make daily drivers, when they should be making exotics. Mercedes makes daily drivers.
In terms of speed, the Gallardo is quicker than both the 550 and 360. It will outhandle and out brake both. Its build quality is better than either one also.
The 430 is now just a massaged over 360, which just as the 360 CS was proven to be over hyped, so will the 430.
Inmo, Ferrari hasnt made a decent car since the 512 and 355, and its only getting worse with cars like the 612 and new 575 replacement.
In the U.S, the Gallardo is 160-170,000.
In terms of styling the Gallardo is much more exotic to me. Ive never been a fan of the 550. It looks too supra-ish to me. The 360 is ok, but nothing special. Ferrari is out to make daily drivers, when they should be making exotics. Mercedes makes daily drivers.
In terms of speed, the Gallardo is quicker than both the 550 and 360. It will outhandle and out brake both. Its build quality is better than either one also.
The 430 is now just a massaged over 360, which just as the 360 CS was proven to be over hyped, so will the 430.
Inmo, Ferrari hasnt made a decent car since the 512 and 355, and its only getting worse with cars like the 612 and new 575 replacement.
In the U.S, the Gallardo is 160-170,000.
<flamesuit on and set to defcon 5>
IMO, the Lambo 'G', is just a hyped up Audi
Hence the daily useability
<flamesuit off>
Aren't supercars nowadays losing their character ?
.. runs for cover
Admittedly haven't driven a 'G', but the 360 I have left me breathless (having to admit though, it was my first 'supercar' drive after a taste of a 996)
IMO, the Lambo 'G', is just a hyped up Audi
Hence the daily useability
<flamesuit off>
Aren't supercars nowadays losing their character ?
.. runs for cover
Admittedly haven't driven a 'G', but the 360 I have left me breathless (having to admit though, it was my first 'supercar' drive after a taste of a 996)
I'm inclined to agree.
I am a potential customer. Yet the Gallardo leaves me cold. The interior is poor.
And the car is, somehow, lacking an edge.
I've driven one, and crawled over it for a long time.
It is a magnificent car the Gallardo, but if it did not have Lamborghini badges you would not instantly think " Lamborghini".
Ferrari still hang on to some DNA that links them to their history. When you drive a 360 you are aware of the other Ferrari that have followed it, and you are aware of where the car came from.
In a Gallardo there is no link to the previous generations of Lamborghini. There is no clue that it is a Lambo other than the badge. it could be anything.
The Murcialago is different. You see the relationship to the Diablo in its style and poise, so there is a link to the italian heritage.
The Gallardo falls between two stools in my view, and so it is left a bit on its own. Its Audi heritage makes it as easy to own and drive as a Porsche 996 Turbo as a daily driver , but it is not as practical with a non existent boot.
But as a special weekend car, the Gallardo is too refined and Audi-like to be as special as a Challenge Stradale, which walks over it for charisma even if it is too hardcore as a daily driver.
So I personally favour the 360/430 over Gallardo. But I would take a Murcialago over a 575 every time !
I am a potential customer. Yet the Gallardo leaves me cold. The interior is poor.
And the car is, somehow, lacking an edge.
I've driven one, and crawled over it for a long time.
It is a magnificent car the Gallardo, but if it did not have Lamborghini badges you would not instantly think " Lamborghini".
Ferrari still hang on to some DNA that links them to their history. When you drive a 360 you are aware of the other Ferrari that have followed it, and you are aware of where the car came from.
In a Gallardo there is no link to the previous generations of Lamborghini. There is no clue that it is a Lambo other than the badge. it could be anything.
The Murcialago is different. You see the relationship to the Diablo in its style and poise, so there is a link to the italian heritage.
The Gallardo falls between two stools in my view, and so it is left a bit on its own. Its Audi heritage makes it as easy to own and drive as a Porsche 996 Turbo as a daily driver , but it is not as practical with a non existent boot.
But as a special weekend car, the Gallardo is too refined and Audi-like to be as special as a Challenge Stradale, which walks over it for charisma even if it is too hardcore as a daily driver.
So I personally favour the 360/430 over Gallardo. But I would take a Murcialago over a 575 every time !
toppstuff said:
The Gallardo falls between two stools in my view, and so it is left a bit on its own. Its Audi heritage makes it as easy to own and drive as a Porsche 996 Turbo as a daily driver , but it is not as practical with a non existent boot.
But as a special weekend car, the Gallardo is too refined and Audi-like to be as special as a Challenge Stradale, which walks over it for charisma even if it is too hardcore as a daily driver.
So I personally favour the 360/430 over Gallardo. But I would take a Murcialago over a 575 every time !
You see, I think it's the German-esque coming through. For some reason, in my eyes, a supercar should not be so easy to drive on a daily basis - you should be having to make sacrifices and settling for certain traits the car possesses. It's all part of the ownership of the car.
IMO (again, donning the well used flame-suit), cars such as the 996 Turbo and 'G' are just overblown sportscars, and cannot really adorn the lapel badge of supercar ?
Raks said:
IMO (again, donning the well used flame-suit), cars such as the 996 Turbo and 'G' are just overblown sportscars, and cannot really adorn the lapel badge of supercar ?
Interesting discussion. I think it depends on the criteria you apply to what defines a supercar.
The 996 TT and Gallardo offer a package possessing huge power with composed all weather handling, along with everyday drivability. This to some is like having their cake and eating it, whilst to others it is seen as too much of a compromise for the car to wear the ‘supercar’ label.
Horses for courses in the end. Though if 911 turbos are thought to be overblown sports cars, it is very interesting to look over the results of PH V-max days at Bruntingthorpe.
I'm not saying by the way I wouldn't get one, because I'd bite the seller's hand off if I could afford one 
, but I just think these cars are for the person who only wants to own one car.
Whereas, you will commonly notice that owners of Diablos and Ferrari's alike, will have something else in their garage to compliment. In my observations though..
Anyway, save this for the thread I opened. Don't want to hijack
, but I just think these cars are for the person who only wants to own one car. Whereas, you will commonly notice that owners of Diablos and Ferrari's alike, will have something else in their garage to compliment. In my observations though..
Anyway, save this for the thread I opened. Don't want to hijack
A personal perspective for you....
I looked long and hard having come from an F-car and having enjoyed the experience I wanted to stay with ferrari but a drive in the Gallardo changed all that. My reasons were quite simple:
I drove and lived with both cars - the 360 was great - I really like it and always have (interesting is that my better half thinks its a happy looking car - she thinks that the Gallardo looks evil - that was enough for me to buy it ;-)). BUT - it wasn't as good as my 355 which was a real drivers cars.
I didn't go for a 360 because the 430 was due next year and I didn't want to buy an outgoing model. In looks and in spy shots, the 430 is looked too like the 360 for my liking - I know its got some cracking technology under the skin of it but that's not enough for me.
Doesn't mean I don't like f-cars - I justified my decision based on the driving experience and the total package supported by the many reviews (television and magazine) placing the car at the top of the list.
Now for me, paying £128k for a ford would be reckless but there are people doing it - over 100 in the UK! Doesn't mean that its overpriced and doesn't mean the car is cr@p it just means its not my cup of tea. That's all this thread is about - Here and now, today, my cup of tea is a Gallardo.
And if you want to understand more of my logic - check out this video:
www.norcalevo.net/video/motegibattle.wmv
I looked long and hard having come from an F-car and having enjoyed the experience I wanted to stay with ferrari but a drive in the Gallardo changed all that. My reasons were quite simple:
I drove and lived with both cars - the 360 was great - I really like it and always have (interesting is that my better half thinks its a happy looking car - she thinks that the Gallardo looks evil - that was enough for me to buy it ;-)). BUT - it wasn't as good as my 355 which was a real drivers cars.
I didn't go for a 360 because the 430 was due next year and I didn't want to buy an outgoing model. In looks and in spy shots, the 430 is looked too like the 360 for my liking - I know its got some cracking technology under the skin of it but that's not enough for me.
Doesn't mean I don't like f-cars - I justified my decision based on the driving experience and the total package supported by the many reviews (television and magazine) placing the car at the top of the list.
Now for me, paying £128k for a ford would be reckless but there are people doing it - over 100 in the UK! Doesn't mean that its overpriced and doesn't mean the car is cr@p it just means its not my cup of tea. That's all this thread is about - Here and now, today, my cup of tea is a Gallardo.
And if you want to understand more of my logic - check out this video:
www.norcalevo.net/video/motegibattle.wmv
Well said Felix. I would also say that talking about perceived value when discussing supercars is a bit silly. The only way to enter into ownership of a F car or the Gallardo is with your eyes open - if you are going to weigh up the pros of a f430 versus the Lambo....dont. Come selling time you'll encounter the same response from the same dealers regardless of which car you buy.....deep intake of breath, sucking of teeth, 'its the wrong colour, lots of them around, wrong spec, no heated seats'...... accept you'll lose a bucket of money over 12-24 months and buy the motor YOU like.
I also find it helps to repeat the mantra ad nauseam 'I could die tomorrrow, I could die tomorrow.....'
I also find it helps to repeat the mantra ad nauseam 'I could die tomorrrow, I could die tomorrow.....'
Firstly the Gallardo isn't faster than a 360 all the time. If you look at the figures Autocar UK achieved you'll find;
0-60 4.2 secs (360) 4.1 secs(G)
0-100 8.8 secs (360) 9 secs(G)
60-0 2.4 secs (360) 2.9 secs(G)
The race on the wmv file doesn't prove anything as all the drivers were different and may have been more concerned about crashing than winning. As a yardstick, TopGear(BBC TV) tested all these cars with the same driver. The CS beat both the Murci and the G, it had an equal time to the 911 GT3 RS.
The main reason I would never buy a G, is that of safety, the occupants legs appear to be between the front wheels, together with a very short nose, I doubt you would keep your lower legs in anything but a slow shunt. Audi has a terrible record on safety, remember how many people had to die in TT's before they recalled them?
Another factor is Ferrari's racing history, both past and current, what have Lamborghini won (on land anyway)? Ferrari make their own engines, where as the G has something out of the VAG stable.
Audi really need to price the G against the Porsche turbo, at current prices they just aren't moving in the UK. It appears Lambo UK are pre registering cars, putting a few 100 miles on them then selling them as secondhand.
Some have suggested that some Gallardo's are actually made at the Audi factory in Germany? true or false?
OK, tell me how they arrived at £125K?
0-60 4.2 secs (360) 4.1 secs(G)
0-100 8.8 secs (360) 9 secs(G)
60-0 2.4 secs (360) 2.9 secs(G)
The race on the wmv file doesn't prove anything as all the drivers were different and may have been more concerned about crashing than winning. As a yardstick, TopGear(BBC TV) tested all these cars with the same driver. The CS beat both the Murci and the G, it had an equal time to the 911 GT3 RS.
The main reason I would never buy a G, is that of safety, the occupants legs appear to be between the front wheels, together with a very short nose, I doubt you would keep your lower legs in anything but a slow shunt. Audi has a terrible record on safety, remember how many people had to die in TT's before they recalled them?
Another factor is Ferrari's racing history, both past and current, what have Lamborghini won (on land anyway)? Ferrari make their own engines, where as the G has something out of the VAG stable.
Audi really need to price the G against the Porsche turbo, at current prices they just aren't moving in the UK. It appears Lambo UK are pre registering cars, putting a few 100 miles on them then selling them as secondhand.
Some have suggested that some Gallardo's are actually made at the Audi factory in Germany? true or false?
OK, tell me how they arrived at £125K?
Sjn, Autocar, firstly is the WORST magazine. Their acceleration figures are hardly conclusive. They also rated a Murcielago at 13.00 seconds in the 1/4 (laughable) and a Porsche GT2 at 12.70@ 128mph! The only way the Gt2 could hit 128 mph in the 1/4 if it were thrown from an airplane.
The Top Gear test track is also a joke, you think its fair to test a Gallardo on a completely wet track against a CS on a dry track? If you do, then youll have belief in those numbers since thats what they did. If you look at real tests, the Gallardo and the Murcielago destroyed the 360CS at both the Nurburgring, and Hockenheim. The 360CS was even on race tires, and the Gallardo was 4 seconds faster on the ring.
Ive driven both these cars, the Gallardo is night and day in straightline speed from a 360.It will leave a 360 standing still, in any gear. The 360CS has already to be proven hype, as owners who dynoed did not get the power results advertised from Ferrari, nor the weight savings. I do however feel, that that in the CS, the look of the car has been greatly improved.
Ferrari relies on its racing heritage today. Their cars have gone from awe-inspiring (the TR and F40) to bland and boring.
I have a 355 SPider, which i rarely drive. My wife likes it, its a nice girls car. But even she doesnt care, as she says i can sell it whenever i want, something she did not say about her NSX.
The Top Gear test track is also a joke, you think its fair to test a Gallardo on a completely wet track against a CS on a dry track? If you do, then youll have belief in those numbers since thats what they did. If you look at real tests, the Gallardo and the Murcielago destroyed the 360CS at both the Nurburgring, and Hockenheim. The 360CS was even on race tires, and the Gallardo was 4 seconds faster on the ring.
Ive driven both these cars, the Gallardo is night and day in straightline speed from a 360.It will leave a 360 standing still, in any gear. The 360CS has already to be proven hype, as owners who dynoed did not get the power results advertised from Ferrari, nor the weight savings. I do however feel, that that in the CS, the look of the car has been greatly improved.
Ferrari relies on its racing heritage today. Their cars have gone from awe-inspiring (the TR and F40) to bland and boring.
I have a 355 SPider, which i rarely drive. My wife likes it, its a nice girls car. But even she doesnt care, as she says i can sell it whenever i want, something she did not say about her NSX.
Don't want to turn this into a Gallardo bashing session, as that would be unfair on a fabulous car.
But at a price of £125k - they must be full of margin for VAG.
Notice that Verdi are now selling new Gallardo's at £5k UNDER list price now.
Gallardo will be awesome value in a couple or three years time - £60-70k maybe?
The Gallardo has 500bhp - much more than a 360 , so it is no surprise that it is faster.
The 430 will be closer in power, but maybe lighter without the 4 WD.
It'll be close for performance.
>> Edited by toppstuff on Wednesday 25th August 19:45
But at a price of £125k - they must be full of margin for VAG.
Notice that Verdi are now selling new Gallardo's at £5k UNDER list price now.
Gallardo will be awesome value in a couple or three years time - £60-70k maybe?
The Gallardo has 500bhp - much more than a 360 , so it is no surprise that it is faster.
The 430 will be closer in power, but maybe lighter without the 4 WD.
It'll be close for performance.
>> Edited by toppstuff on Wednesday 25th August 19:45
IMHO (And yes I do respect those with opposing opinions) and like I said above - Ferrari's are great cars and I may well end up returning to the fold as I had so much fun wiht my 355. BUT (and get this - this is what really counts - NOT the 0-60 or the 0-100 or even the 60-0 - No what really counts) is that I (that is, me!) think(s) its a better car and given my driving skills I am confident I would get more from the G-car than I would from the Ferrari.
I don't care where it was made, its heritage (although I defy anyone to stand in front of the G-car and not see more than a passing resemblance to the Countach - is that heritage?) and neither, I suspect, do half the population who admire it more fervantly than I have ever experienced driving a ferrari.
Safety is an interesting one since anyone who has driven a G-car will be able to tell you that despite appearances you are actually no further forward than in an f-car - the cockpit forward stance is an illusion created by the size of the windscreen. The depth of the dash is over twice the size of my F355, consequently my feet are in an almost identical position. I can't comment on people dying in TTs since (despite reading virtually every motor mag I get my hands on) I have yet to discover anything that refers to a driver's death attributed to something later corrected through recall by Audi.
Anyway I digress: my point was that The G-car is stunning AND so is the Ferrari 360 (&CS). I am sure the 430 will be equally stunning and will probably be a much more accomplished car than the G-car. But none of that really matters since here and now I have a Gallardo to pilot around the country roads of the UK.
With the price I paid I don't feel robbed. I am sure I will lose a few quid but so what. If that bothered me I would never have bought a ferrari before my Gallardo, or the porsche before that or the brabus before that.
Nuff said? No.... well incidently - in most professions it soon becomes pretty clear that stats can be made to read any which way so just to skew one more.... the Top Gear 360 CS test was done in the dry and the G-car in the wet. Go figure!
I don't care where it was made, its heritage (although I defy anyone to stand in front of the G-car and not see more than a passing resemblance to the Countach - is that heritage?) and neither, I suspect, do half the population who admire it more fervantly than I have ever experienced driving a ferrari.
Safety is an interesting one since anyone who has driven a G-car will be able to tell you that despite appearances you are actually no further forward than in an f-car - the cockpit forward stance is an illusion created by the size of the windscreen. The depth of the dash is over twice the size of my F355, consequently my feet are in an almost identical position. I can't comment on people dying in TTs since (despite reading virtually every motor mag I get my hands on) I have yet to discover anything that refers to a driver's death attributed to something later corrected through recall by Audi.
Anyway I digress: my point was that The G-car is stunning AND so is the Ferrari 360 (&CS). I am sure the 430 will be equally stunning and will probably be a much more accomplished car than the G-car. But none of that really matters since here and now I have a Gallardo to pilot around the country roads of the UK.
With the price I paid I don't feel robbed. I am sure I will lose a few quid but so what. If that bothered me I would never have bought a ferrari before my Gallardo, or the porsche before that or the brabus before that.
Nuff said? No.... well incidently - in most professions it soon becomes pretty clear that stats can be made to read any which way so just to skew one more.... the Top Gear 360 CS test was done in the dry and the G-car in the wet. Go figure!
felix66 said:
I can't comment on people dying in TTs since (despite reading virtually every motor mag I get my hands on) I have yet to discover anything that refers to a driver's death attributed to something later corrected through recall by Audi.
Nuff said? No.... well incidently - in most professions it soon becomes pretty clear that stats can be made to read any which way so just to skew one more.... the Top Gear 360 CS test was done in the dry and the G-car in the wet. Go figure!
When the TT first came out, it had a handling problem due to the aerodynamics(lift at the back). Over 100 or so, if you braked hard, the car would go into a spin. All TT's were recalled, fitted with a boot spoiler and some electronic stability control.
www.core77.com/news/archive_03_00.html
www.dooyoo.co.uk/motors/cars/audi_tt_quattro/_review/13641/
www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?n=156,173&sid=173&article=403
Topgear also tested a Murci in the dry, both the 360CS and GT3 beat it. So which is faster a Gallardo or Murci?
Edited to add URL's
>> Edited by sjn2004 on Wednesday 25th August 22:54
felix66 said:
IMHO (And yes I do respect those with opposing opinions) and like I said above - Ferrari's are great cars and I may well end up returning to the fold as I had so much fun wiht my 355. BUT (and get this - this is what really counts - NOT the 0-60 or the 0-100 or even the 60-0 - No what really counts) is that I (that is, me!) think(s) its a better car and given my driving skills I am confident I would get more from the G-car than I would from the Ferrari.
I don't care where it was made, its heritage (although I defy anyone to stand in front of the G-car and not see more than a passing resemblance to the Countach - is that heritage?) and neither, I suspect, do half the population who admire it more fervantly than I have ever experienced driving a ferrari.
Safety is an interesting one since anyone who has driven a G-car will be able to tell you that despite appearances you are actually no further forward than in an f-car - the cockpit forward stance is an illusion created by the size of the windscreen. The depth of the dash is over twice the size of my F355, consequently my feet are in an almost identical position. I can't comment on people dying in TTs since (despite reading virtually every motor mag I get my hands on) I have yet to discover anything that refers to a driver's death attributed to something later corrected through recall by Audi.
Anyway I digress: my point was that The G-car is stunning AND so is the Ferrari 360 (&CS). I am sure the 430 will be equally stunning and will probably be a much more accomplished car than the G-car. But none of that really matters since here and now I have a Gallardo to pilot around the country roads of the UK.
With the price I paid I don't feel robbed. I am sure I will lose a few quid but so what. If that bothered me I would never have bought a ferrari before my Gallardo, or the porsche before that or the brabus before that.
Nuff said? No.... well incidently - in most professions it soon becomes pretty clear that stats can be made to read any which way so just to skew one more.... the Top Gear 360 CS test was done in the dry and the G-car in the wet. Go figure!
Very fair points, well made. And all credit to you for actually putting the readies down and buying and enjoying a Gallardo !
They are indeed very special cars and a welcome arrival to the scene.
I think the arrival of the Gallardo has made Ferrari raise their game- the Lambo does indeed outpoint the Ferrari on all counts and this must explain the launch of the 430.
It is great for enthusiasts everywhere that Ferrari and Lamborghini are competing for our attention !
sjn2004 said:
When the TT first came out, it had a handling problem due to the aerodynamics(lift at the back). Over 100 or so, if you braked hard, the car would go into a spin. All TT's were recalled, fitted with a boot spoiler and some electronic stability control.
<a href="http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/motors/cars/audi_tt_quattro/_review/13641/">www.dooyoo.co.uk/motors/cars/audi_tt_quattro/_review/13641/</a>
www.core77.com/news/archive_03_00.html
Topgear also tested a Murci in the dry, both the 360CS and GT3 beat it. So which is faster a Gallardo or Murci?
>> Edited by sjn2004 on Wednesday 25th August 22:47
Yes I remember the recall but I suspect I was being too subtle, I don't remember the deaths.
And yes I suspect the Murci is quicker, LOL a whole new debate that will resurface in another thread on driving styles no doubt.
But that also was not my point. My point subtle as it was relates to the fact that ALL cars are expensive to someone, the G-car is not to me and that in much the same way, we all have our opinions and I suspect can defend them in a resonably robust way.
I chose the Gallardo on merit having driven pretty much everything in that price range - Like I said in my original post - it may have been a different outcome this time next year and no doubt someone would be making a comment about the Fiat switchgear etc etc. But its not this time next year and most importantly, I made the right decision armed with all the information and driving experiences I needed.
like I say, IMHO ;-) (BTW This is an outstanding similie for the Mac vs PC debate of value for money and performance and yes you guessed it, I am posting on a Mac - hey ho, will I never learn LOL)
A very good point you make !
Ferrari vs Lamborghini
PC vs Mac
Nikon vs Canon
Linn vs Naim
All similar debates over a central theme !
And I can understand how Lambo are the cool, alternative angle on a sportscar theme, challenging the mainstream.
As a Mac, Nikon ( and Leica ) , and Linn fan I can relate to that..
Ferrari vs Lamborghini
PC vs Mac
Nikon vs Canon
Linn vs Naim
All similar debates over a central theme !
And I can understand how Lambo are the cool, alternative angle on a sportscar theme, challenging the mainstream.
As a Mac, Nikon ( and Leica ) , and Linn fan I can relate to that..
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