Engine noisy after oil change

[Dr Imran T]

Afternoon chaps

I recently had an oil change on my old smoker (Honda Legend 2001 3.5 V6)with a fully synthetic oil and genuine Honda oil filter.

First change I put in some valvoline 5w40 fully synthetic oil and changed the oil filter for an OEM one.

After this I found the engine noisy on start up in particular. Sounds more of a top end rattle. So I dropped this oil and put in some 10w40 part synthetic as per Honda recommendation.

It seems somewhat better but not as quiet as before.

Milage is 134,000 and car has had regular changes, however, the last oil that came out was thick and black.

Would it be risky to put in some 10w50 fully synthetic that I have lying around? is there a chance that the oil filter is faulty?

I should add that it does quieten down once the car is up to temp.

Advise please

[Bennachie]

What oil was in it originally?

Sounds like starvation to hydraulic tappets perhaps? due to filter one way - non return - valve faulty. Is the filter a cannister type? Is it sideways upside down or regular etc.

[Dr Imran T]

Bennachie said:

What oil was in it originally?

Sounds like starvation to hydraulic tappets perhaps? due to filter one way - non return - valve faulty. Is the filter a cannister type? Is it sideways upside down or regular etc.

It ran on 10w40 semi synthetic originally. Engine was definitely quieter before as even my wife commented on this!

Good question re. filter I think it is sideways mounted. Yes it is a cannister type?? as opposed to a cartridge then?

Oil filter was from the Honda dealers and costs 3x price of a non Honda one

I will be very annoyed if the oil filter is at fault, already had to drop the oil once already.

Would there be any damage done to the engine if this is the case then?

[nsa]

10W oil is thicker at colder temperatures so it might stick better around the tappets, reducing noise. 10W-50 just means it has higher viscosity at high temperature than 10W-40, so it shouldn't make any difference to noise at start-up.

How many miles did you drive it before changing the 5W oil? It might improve over time, say a few weeks. The tappets on my track car rattle after an oil change (5W-40), but it settles back to normal during the first track day.

One of many sites explaining oil viscosity:

"OK . . .What does a 5W-30 do that an SAE 30 won't?
When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature. For example, a 5W-30 motor oil performs like a SAE 5 motor oil would perform at the cold temperature specified, but still has the SAE 30 viscosity at 210° F (100° C) which is engine operating temperature. This allows the engine to get quick oil flow when it is started cold verses dry running until lubricant either warms up sufficiently or is finally forced through the engine oil system. The advantages of a low W viscosity number is obvious. The quicker the oil flows cold, the less dry running. Less dry running means much less engine wear."

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscos...

[Dr Imran T]

^^ thanks.

I ran the car for about 400/500 miles with the 5w40 oil in. I drove from Bradford to London then came home and changed the oil.

Would it be oil starvation if the noise goes away after the car is up to temp?

How long does it take for the oil pressure to build up?

thanks

[sjwb]

Rather than go into the ins and outs of oil; I believe that this engine was prone to hydraulic tappet failures.

[Dr Imran T]

^^ really? not heard that before. I thought these engines were sturdy and capable of huge miles??

Car has FSH from the main dealer with regular oil changes. Noise came about after last change hence my concern.

[Bennachie]

Is it tappet noise?

Does it go away after a couple of mins?

Change the filter. You can do that without draining the oil.

If it is initial start up rattle then the non return valve in the filter is faulty. Not unheard of from new...

[ch427]

sounds like the wrong viscosity oil to me, cant see a genuine filter at fault

[Dr Imran T]

Bennachie said:

Is it tappet noise?

Does it go away after a couple of mins?

Change the filter. You can do that without draining the oil.

If it is initial start up rattle then the non return valve in the filter is faulty. Not unheard of from new...

I think it is tappets. It does go away once the engine is up to temp but I feel the engine is not as quiet as it was before.

I've got a new oil filter so I will give that a try and report back.

Thanks all

[Vince70]

I had the same problem on my old shed when I had the oil and filter changed at kwik fit.
I drove the car like that for six months with no ill effects till the next oil change when the noise stopped.

I always put it down to the oil filter as a previous poster has already mentioned.

[SMGB]

Yep I would put money on the filter non return valve either non existant , ie its specified that way, or faulty. Once the oil pump fills the filter and all the galleries the rattle will go away. It wont do any harm, but change it for one with a non return valve if it bugs you. I keep the original right way up impossible to change filter on the MGB for this reason, it cant drain while the engine is off.
Someone I know had a hydraulic tappet fail in a shed Vauxhall and ran it on until the camshaft failed it took about 20,000 miles to kill it. Personally I couldnt do that.

[Dr Imran T]

Ok Update - changed the oil filter and it really hasn't made much of a difference. The only thing I think that may have brought about this change is the oil.

The mechanic suggested that they may have used a heavier weight of oil or ran it with an additive to quieten the tappets.

I have changed the oil (10w40) as per Honda recommendations. However, I know some people say to run a heavier as the engine gets older/high mileage.

I have a spare 5 litres of Pro S 10w50 that I have lying about in the shed. Might try that at the next oil change.

Thanks

[ch427]

dont use 10/50 you will make it worse. Find out for sure the recommended oil for your car,it may be need a 5/30 grade.

[Dr Imran T]

ch427 said:

dont use 10/50 you will make it worse. Find out for sure the recommended oil for your car,it may be need a 5/30 grade.

Slippery slope this. As far as I am aware a thicker oil is better for noisy tappets. There is a excellent thread on PH about this somewhere. It was very informative. I shall try and dig it out and post it up.

[Rupert Rigsby]

This might be relevant or not but I shall mention it anyway. My boss had a 2.7 Honda engined Rover 800, and he used to potter about in it, and the tappets used to rattle their heads off. When I used to take it for a thrash round the tappets used to pump up and the engine sounded a lot healthier. Might be something, might be nothing.