Discussion
I'm slightly surprised (or maybe wrong!) that no one has mentioned this car on here already...
see : www.adr-engineering.co.uk/
It looks like a fantastic opportunity to do seem really quick, close and exciting racing, for not much cash..
It's featured in Ingear Motorsport magazine (back page of issue #2) and looks and sounds like a really good opportunity. Plus at least one article...
Hope it goes on to do really well. If it lasts I'd be interested in having a go in one.
What do others think of it, plus it's chances of surviving? I think it's got quite a good chance and looks way better than the Westie offering..
The car is going to feature in races at&on (from their website) :
Silverstone........July 27/28 2002
Cadwell.............Aug 31/Sep 1 2002
Snetterton.........Sep 14/15 2002
PS
:-)
see : www.adr-engineering.co.uk/
It looks like a fantastic opportunity to do seem really quick, close and exciting racing, for not much cash..
It's featured in Ingear Motorsport magazine (back page of issue #2) and looks and sounds like a really good opportunity. Plus at least one article...
Hope it goes on to do really well. If it lasts I'd be interested in having a go in one.
What do others think of it, plus it's chances of surviving? I think it's got quite a good chance and looks way better than the Westie offering..
The car is going to feature in races at&on (from their website) :
Silverstone........July 27/28 2002
Cadwell.............Aug 31/Sep 1 2002
Snetterton.........Sep 14/15 2002
PS :-)
I was about to post an identical thread when I saw this one!
The Sports 1000 looks brilliant!
It could do with rear wishbones instead of an old Morris Minor rear live-axle though!
I would like to build my own car but I suspect ready built second hand ones to be quite reasonable when they come up for sale.
I doubt I would race it with 750MC, (been there, done that and still have the battles scars!) but some of the local club championships like SEMSEC would be good fun. It would need lots of investigating though, because outside of 750MC I don't know if it would be competitive as the 90BHP BMW engine would be up against 200BHP of Kawasaki/Radical! With some modification though, it could be very serious!
I'd have to sell the Fiesta first though to pay for it which would be a shame as it's been very succesful this season with podium finishes at every race!
Jas.
P.S. Try changing the posting name to 'BMW Le-Mans type racer from £8,500'. That should get more responses!
>> Edited by Paceracing on Tuesday 30th July 23:02
The Sports 1000 looks brilliant!
It could do with rear wishbones instead of an old Morris Minor rear live-axle though!
I would like to build my own car but I suspect ready built second hand ones to be quite reasonable when they come up for sale.
I doubt I would race it with 750MC, (been there, done that and still have the battles scars!) but some of the local club championships like SEMSEC would be good fun. It would need lots of investigating though, because outside of 750MC I don't know if it would be competitive as the 90BHP BMW engine would be up against 200BHP of Kawasaki/Radical! With some modification though, it could be very serious!
I'd have to sell the Fiesta first though to pay for it which would be a shame as it's been very succesful this season with podium finishes at every race!
Jas.
P.S. Try changing the posting name to 'BMW Le-Mans type racer from £8,500'. That should get more responses!
>> Edited by Paceracing on Tuesday 30th July 23:02
I agree! When I showed the Ingear article to my mechanics on the weekend their first comment was "ew! fixed axle".. Which is slightly interesting as they used to work closely with cars with fixed axles...
Can I change the topic heading? Not sure if it's possible to change or if you have to request it..
Agree though - unless you know what it is the ADR1000 is a bit cryptic.
There's a bit more discussion about this on the Kit Cars forum, under the heading "Westfield XTR2"...
PS
Can I change the topic heading? Not sure if it's possible to change or if you have to request it..
Agree though - unless you know what it is the ADR1000 is a bit cryptic.
There's a bit more discussion about this on the Kit Cars forum, under the heading "Westfield XTR2"...
PS
Live axle, not sure where the term comes from, but I'm sure that someone else will/does.. Effectively the rear diff. connecting the two rear wheels is a solid one, therefore both wheels rotate at the same speed. Usually fine until one is on tarmac and one is on grass and things then go wrong, quickly..
The other is independant, with an LSD, Limited Slip Diff, which allows the wheels to rotate at slightly and (temporarily?) different speeds, therefore on different grip level surfaces things are in 'equilibrium' - or something like that!
hth
The other is independant, with an LSD, Limited Slip Diff, which allows the wheels to rotate at slightly and (temporarily?) different speeds, therefore on different grip level surfaces things are in 'equilibrium' - or something like that!
hth
ginettag27 said:If there was no difference between the speeds of the wheels, why would it be called a differential?
Live axle, not sure where the term comes from, but I'm sure that someone else will/does.. Effectively the rear diff. connecting the two rear wheels is a solid one, therefore both wheels rotate at the same speed. Usually fine until one is on tarmac and one is on grass and things then go wrong, quickly..
The other is independant, with an LSD, Limited Slip Diff, which allows the wheels to rotate at slightly and (temporarily?) different speeds, therefore on different grip level surfaces things are in 'equilibrium' - or something like that!
hth
A live axle is when both wheels and the differential are rigidly attached together so that they move as a single assembly. They are inherently unindependent in that one wheel's movement effects the other directly. The de-Dion axle (as found on Caterhams) is similar but the diff is not part of the rear axle assembly and is instead attached directly to the chassis to reduce unsprung weight.
Hi
I really need diagrams pics of different live axle 5 link set ups ?not interested in independant on this project.
Nothing much about the BMW as mentioned found on any sites yet ?
A live axle is your basic mk2 escort/ capri rear wheel drive axle with a diff to allow the wheels to rotate at different speeds for cornering . its live because what affects the movement on one side will affect the other side also (not desireable),.but can be made into quite a good practical set up.
Cheers
I really need diagrams pics of different live axle 5 link set ups ?not interested in independant on this project.
Nothing much about the BMW as mentioned found on any sites yet ?
A live axle is your basic mk2 escort/ capri rear wheel drive axle with a diff to allow the wheels to rotate at different speeds for cornering . its live because what affects the movement on one side will affect the other side also (not desireable),.but can be made into quite a good practical set up.
Cheers
Not quite Phil - and you should know better!
A live axle is part of the unsprung mass - both wheels, axles and the diff are along the same axis, with no motion between them (crap description I know).
With independent rear suspension , the diff is mounted on the chassis, with universal joints between the diff and the axles, so they can move independent of the diff (if you see what I mean). This allows more scope for suspension setup, and obviously reduces the unsprung mass.
With either setup, a free or limited slip diff can be fitted.
Does look a good concept - but I'll stick with the Ginetta - regardless of how good the car is (and the G20 is a gem), it is the series that governs how much fun the racing is - and there is no better racing at the moment than Ginettas (
OK - slightly biased!)
A live axle is part of the unsprung mass - both wheels, axles and the diff are along the same axis, with no motion between them (crap description I know).
With independent rear suspension , the diff is mounted on the chassis, with universal joints between the diff and the axles, so they can move independent of the diff (if you see what I mean). This allows more scope for suspension setup, and obviously reduces the unsprung mass.
With either setup, a free or limited slip diff can be fitted.
Does look a good concept - but I'll stick with the Ginetta - regardless of how good the car is (and the G20 is a gem), it is the series that governs how much fun the racing is - and there is no better racing at the moment than Ginettas (
OK - slightly biased!)
I followed the development of the ADR since its inception a couple of years ago.There has been teething problems but I think Adrian has addressed most of them.Look at www.adrengineering.co.uk and speak to him.He`s a nice bloke and will be able to help.Was going to get one myself but opted to race formula fords instead.They do look like a mini Le Mans car dont you think?
Er, a live axle is so called because it has drive going through it, the opposite being a 'dead' or 'beam axle' as it is more usually known which just holds the wheels on. It is always a rigid axle. Sort of, in the case of a BMC!
To locate it to the Morris you need to use five links. (Forget the ADR setup it is way too complicated.)
The five links are:- top and bottom fore and aft parallel links each side, these want to be as long as possible and fairly close to the outer ends - an upright will have to be fabricated on to the axle tube at each end to attach these to - and the fifth is usually a Panhard rod to give lateral location. The rod is attached to the axle tube one end and the body/chassis at the other and again as long as possible. There are other lateral locating link types but unless you are racing there is no point. In fact even if you are racing there is no point as the Panhard works very well.
You have to support the rear of the body on slightly inclined coil over damper units - adjustable spring platforms are always best. Use really good adjustable rear dampers and make all the links adjustable for length. (Rose joints) This set up has been used on thousands of racing cars and it works. I have a Morris axle on my racing car and the other mod I have is a pair of triangulation tubes from the diff housing to the bottom of the fabricated uprights to stiffen the axle tube as it is rather lightweight for slick tyres and the subsequent high cornering loads. Could have used a Ford but they are heavy. My race car only has 90bhp and it will see off a GT3 Porsche round most club circuits.
Of course having done the back you'll want to do the front - double unequal length wishbones with inclined coil overs - I don't know what you'll attach them to!
You need to research the design. Expect to spend at least two or three solid weeks just reading, sketching and calculating.
To locate it to the Morris you need to use five links. (Forget the ADR setup it is way too complicated.)
The five links are:- top and bottom fore and aft parallel links each side, these want to be as long as possible and fairly close to the outer ends - an upright will have to be fabricated on to the axle tube at each end to attach these to - and the fifth is usually a Panhard rod to give lateral location. The rod is attached to the axle tube one end and the body/chassis at the other and again as long as possible. There are other lateral locating link types but unless you are racing there is no point. In fact even if you are racing there is no point as the Panhard works very well.
You have to support the rear of the body on slightly inclined coil over damper units - adjustable spring platforms are always best. Use really good adjustable rear dampers and make all the links adjustable for length. (Rose joints) This set up has been used on thousands of racing cars and it works. I have a Morris axle on my racing car and the other mod I have is a pair of triangulation tubes from the diff housing to the bottom of the fabricated uprights to stiffen the axle tube as it is rather lightweight for slick tyres and the subsequent high cornering loads. Could have used a Ford but they are heavy. My race car only has 90bhp and it will see off a GT3 Porsche round most club circuits.
Of course having done the back you'll want to do the front - double unequal length wishbones with inclined coil overs - I don't know what you'll attach them to!
You need to research the design. Expect to spend at least two or three solid weeks just reading, sketching and calculating.
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