Ferrari F430 ordering process....
Discussion
Can any of you guys help me out? I put down a deposit on an F430 Coupe just over a week ago and was initially quoted a lead time of 4/5 years (based on 130 confirmed orders in hand). My dealer is Graypaul of Nottingham. Now when I visited them this weekend, they say they made a mistake and they actually have 210 orders for the 430 (roughly split 50:50 between Coupe and Spyder). It seems that many of these orders are from people who have placed an order for 'both' Coupe and Spyder to see which one comes first. Presumably they will cancel one of these orders? or perhaps not?
The dealer suggested that as a safety measure I should send in a Letter of Intent for the next model...! That's ridiculous, I've no idea what the next model will be like and whether I might wish to buy it. I'm wondering if the dealer is implying to me that it's unlikely that I will get a F430.
This might seem normal to those of you that have bought in to the whole Ferrari culture, but it's exactly the sort of thing that's steered me towards Porsche during the past 15 years. I'm not prepared to kiss ass or suck-up to a Ferrari dealer and try and join a club, if that's what it takes then I will happily resign myself to never owning a Ferrari, but what I don't like is being messed around. It seems very difficult to get any clear answers abnout the chance of my order being fulfilled in a reasonable timeframe, or if at all.
Can someone please share their views on this situation, is it normal? should I try and shop around and buy elsewhere? I've got friends who are buying F430s from a dealer in Austria and getting theirs in early 2006. That's the kind of time-period mentioned in Autocar a month ago for cars ordered in the UK. Are they very wrong?
I ordered an F430 because it's the first Ferrari I've actually liked (ever) and the performance, looks and sound really appeal. I'm not a 'fan' so to speak of Ferrari, I've found the driving experience of those I've driven over the years less than I had hoped for, and yet this time it could be different.
Yet again I've found the dealers slightly arrogant, perhaps stuck-up and espousing the attitude that suggests they are doing me a favour.
Can any of you guys confirm the state of play with the F430 order book and what I should expect.
Many thanks,
The dealer suggested that as a safety measure I should send in a Letter of Intent for the next model...! That's ridiculous, I've no idea what the next model will be like and whether I might wish to buy it. I'm wondering if the dealer is implying to me that it's unlikely that I will get a F430.
This might seem normal to those of you that have bought in to the whole Ferrari culture, but it's exactly the sort of thing that's steered me towards Porsche during the past 15 years. I'm not prepared to kiss ass or suck-up to a Ferrari dealer and try and join a club, if that's what it takes then I will happily resign myself to never owning a Ferrari, but what I don't like is being messed around. It seems very difficult to get any clear answers abnout the chance of my order being fulfilled in a reasonable timeframe, or if at all.
Can someone please share their views on this situation, is it normal? should I try and shop around and buy elsewhere? I've got friends who are buying F430s from a dealer in Austria and getting theirs in early 2006. That's the kind of time-period mentioned in Autocar a month ago for cars ordered in the UK. Are they very wrong?
I ordered an F430 because it's the first Ferrari I've actually liked (ever) and the performance, looks and sound really appeal. I'm not a 'fan' so to speak of Ferrari, I've found the driving experience of those I've driven over the years less than I had hoped for, and yet this time it could be different.
Yet again I've found the dealers slightly arrogant, perhaps stuck-up and espousing the attitude that suggests they are doing me a favour.
Can any of you guys confirm the state of play with the F430 order book and what I should expect.
Many thanks,
Doctor D I was told that i would be Circa 72 in the waiting list for the car.
Its my first new ferrari purchase and my lead time would be 2 years then 3 years ! (Would this in crease ? - more than likely!!!)
No brochure , No more information other than reading in magazines and no more information - bearing in mind this is a £115 + purchase , one would expect at least a little more info than hearsay , and magazine info ! ( I would anyway!)
My Dealer is first class and brilliant but from my homework I feel many dealers have their hands tied !
Ferrari have become very very arrogant ( on a number of issues according to my friends and their experiences)
As I understand the initial Deposit is £5,000 refundable which I am told at least %50 of buyers will not follow through.
So perhaps the waiting list will be reduced .
However I am not a patient person and I wanted to see what else is around so I spoke to Bentley .
For what its worth , they were excellent in my experience and within 24 hours the full Brochure (Book!) was delivered to me without delay (take note ferrari)
I have grown up wanting a ferrari and to be honest I have come to a crossroads in my persuit for a new High quality car - even questioning my requirements day to day!
So.....
Even though the two cars cannot compare for true driving experience I have have opted for the Bentley GT with a waiting List of 18 months .
obviously this may change but to wait 3 years is too long for me personally.
Ferrari have become arrogant in their recent sucess but as life teaches you , this can be short lived.
I will be buying a secondhand 550 shortly and that I know (after driving this model) will be more than sufficient to feed my Ferrari hunger.
Dont know if these comments are totally appreciated but its how i felt and I dont think in todays age, any comapny can be that arrogant.
Cheers Doctor - hope it works our for you .
Its my first new ferrari purchase and my lead time would be 2 years then 3 years ! (Would this in crease ? - more than likely!!!)
No brochure , No more information other than reading in magazines and no more information - bearing in mind this is a £115 + purchase , one would expect at least a little more info than hearsay , and magazine info ! ( I would anyway!)
My Dealer is first class and brilliant but from my homework I feel many dealers have their hands tied !
Ferrari have become very very arrogant ( on a number of issues according to my friends and their experiences)
As I understand the initial Deposit is £5,000 refundable which I am told at least %50 of buyers will not follow through.
So perhaps the waiting list will be reduced .
However I am not a patient person and I wanted to see what else is around so I spoke to Bentley .
For what its worth , they were excellent in my experience and within 24 hours the full Brochure (Book!) was delivered to me without delay (take note ferrari)
I have grown up wanting a ferrari and to be honest I have come to a crossroads in my persuit for a new High quality car - even questioning my requirements day to day!
So.....
Even though the two cars cannot compare for true driving experience I have have opted for the Bentley GT with a waiting List of 18 months .
obviously this may change but to wait 3 years is too long for me personally.
Ferrari have become arrogant in their recent sucess but as life teaches you , this can be short lived.
I will be buying a secondhand 550 shortly and that I know (after driving this model) will be more than sufficient to feed my Ferrari hunger.
Dont know if these comments are totally appreciated but its how i felt and I dont think in todays age, any comapny can be that arrogant.
Cheers Doctor - hope it works our for you .
Thanks for sharing your experience. Before putting my £5k down on the F430 I had already placed an order for a Porsche 997 GT3 (a few months ago). As I have bought more than a dozen new Porsche's over the years it was a painless process and I fully expect to receive my GT3 by early 2006 at the latest. In my line of business customer service is paramount and no matter how elitist my industry can be, I try hard not to reflect that onto the customer.
From my observation there are a large number of people prepared to patronise the prancing horse moreso for social reasons than those that 'petrol heads' like us would typically have for buying a car. I would like an F430 and would be prepared to wait 3-4 years (since that will give me nearly 2 years in my GT3) but I get the feeling I'm being strung along. After all, my dealer now has more than £1M in deposits in their account (probably earning them more than £60k per year in interest) so what do they care?
From my observation there are a large number of people prepared to patronise the prancing horse moreso for social reasons than those that 'petrol heads' like us would typically have for buying a car. I would like an F430 and would be prepared to wait 3-4 years (since that will give me nearly 2 years in my GT3) but I get the feeling I'm being strung along. After all, my dealer now has more than £1M in deposits in their account (probably earning them more than £60k per year in interest) so what do they care?
DoctorD,
Same here. I've also attempted to order Ferrari's on several occasions in the past - and each time I've been put off by the terrible dealer (service, attitude, and indifference to the customer).
In fairness Ferrari must have recognised this because in my part of the world (North East) they canned the dealer ! - understandable in the circumstances (they were terrible after all) but now the nearest dealer is Leeds!
Frankly it's just so much less hassle to deal with Porsche - I've also got a 997 GT3 on order - Porsche understand customer service - and they know this engenders loyalty within their client base. The local dealer are bloody good as well.
Lamborghini are coming on in leaps and bounds in this department - and to be honest any future Italian exotica I buy will have a raging bull on the hood, NOT a prancing dog meal.
Same here. I've also attempted to order Ferrari's on several occasions in the past - and each time I've been put off by the terrible dealer (service, attitude, and indifference to the customer).
In fairness Ferrari must have recognised this because in my part of the world (North East) they canned the dealer ! - understandable in the circumstances (they were terrible after all) but now the nearest dealer is Leeds!
Frankly it's just so much less hassle to deal with Porsche - I've also got a 997 GT3 on order - Porsche understand customer service - and they know this engenders loyalty within their client base. The local dealer are bloody good as well.
Lamborghini are coming on in leaps and bounds in this department - and to be honest any future Italian exotica I buy will have a raging bull on the hood, NOT a prancing dog meal.
I once remember Marks and Spencer have a very arrogant approach to business...
Not taking credit cards etc..this came back to haunt them!
the point is that no business can afford to be so arrogant as they will always be affected in the future.maybe not now but in the future.
I am stunned on how difficulf some companies make it to part with your cash.
Porsche are so much easier to deal with , I agree but I would also like to add Bentley into this subject.
I am sure each customer has an experience in this field when buying high profile cars but I know a number of poeple who are becomming a little perturbed with the order process from ferrari.
I for one have decided to buy another brand.
Not taking credit cards etc..this came back to haunt them!
the point is that no business can afford to be so arrogant as they will always be affected in the future.maybe not now but in the future.
I am stunned on how difficulf some companies make it to part with your cash.
Porsche are so much easier to deal with , I agree but I would also like to add Bentley into this subject.
I am sure each customer has an experience in this field when buying high profile cars but I know a number of poeple who are becomming a little perturbed with the order process from ferrari.
I for one have decided to buy another brand.
There seems to be two types of reaction to this situation, there are those that seem have an almost masochistic regard for themselves, repeating the mantra that Ferrari are an exclusive brand and the pain and anguish in buying one is part of the suffering required to be included in such a privelleged club. Then there are those that have worked hard to get where they are in life and just won't take any sh*t from someone else no matter how 'special' they claim to be.
I've never subscribed to the fantasy that Ferrari are in a different league to other manufacturers, they're a car company, just like any other, albeit with a strong heritage but then the same is true of Porsche, Lamborghini, Bentley etc...
I like the F430 but I'm not prepared to change my religion to own one. It's a car.
>> Edited by DoctorD on Monday 20th December 09:11
I've never subscribed to the fantasy that Ferrari are in a different league to other manufacturers, they're a car company, just like any other, albeit with a strong heritage but then the same is true of Porsche, Lamborghini, Bentley etc...
I like the F430 but I'm not prepared to change my religion to own one. It's a car.
>> Edited by DoctorD on Monday 20th December 09:11
Doctor D I agree with you on this observation.
Even though I thought I wanted to own a new Ferrari (just once in my life!) I found myself thinking different thoughts after experiencing the process.
If you told me a year ago I would be buying a Bentley GT then I would disagree but after the messing around with Ferrari there were two options for me .
1. Buy Secondhand to save all the waiting, politics etc (not such a bad idea IMO) 550 a good option in this case !
2. Find another car !
As you stated the ferrari is just a car ( albeit a very nice car !) but there are other options.
regards
Peter
Even though I thought I wanted to own a new Ferrari (just once in my life!) I found myself thinking different thoughts after experiencing the process.
If you told me a year ago I would be buying a Bentley GT then I would disagree but after the messing around with Ferrari there were two options for me .
1. Buy Secondhand to save all the waiting, politics etc (not such a bad idea IMO) 550 a good option in this case !
2. Find another car !
As you stated the ferrari is just a car ( albeit a very nice car !) but there are other options.
regards
Peter
Sad to read of these unsatisfactory experiences, but I'm afraid arrogance is all too common nowadays.
The Ferrari 'family' in UK was a very different affair thirty years ago. I had no experience of the motor trade at that time, but took on the first-ever Scottish franchise at the suggestion of Maranello Concessionaires, and passed it on once it was properly established (neglect of my other businesses had to stop)!
The arrogance doesn't originate at the factory - it is down to individuals in this country (often at dealer level) who seem to drift into an unacceptable state of mind, and you will find it in the Porsche world too if you look hard enough.
I have made a few enquiries, and the real lead time for a 430 is nearer two years than four. Anyone who is absolutely serious about the 430 is welcome to email me - I will do my best to explain the situation and help if I can.
On a lighter note, the problem with Ferrari brochures is the plethora of enterprising schoolboys who pinch Dad's notepaper and send off for Ferrari literature. It got so bad in the 1970s that even the importers ran out of stock, and dealers had to print their own!
There comes a time when exasperation sets in, and I think it likely that sheer desperation has led to a situation whereby genuine customers are accidentally 'turned off' by a shortage of glossy pamphlets. These things cost a fortune to produce, and if you respond to requests from 100,000 schoolboys in disguise, plus the inevitable chancers, it makes an unwelcome addition to your operating costs.
The other factor which has come into play is the double or treble order syndrome. It is quite impossible for a dealer to read the mind of every visitor to his showroom, and the result is an artificial order backlog when someone places the same order at three dealerships. There is quite enough cash floating around these days to make a £5,000 deposit relatively painless, and more and more would-be buyers are indulging in this sort of profligacy.
Ferrari could certainly do better, but where do you find a young salesman sufficiently urbane to weigh up each customer? You don't, and I think the time has come for Ferrari/Maserati to institute their own training programme - if they haven't already done so.
>> Edited by McNab on Monday 20th December 11:59
The Ferrari 'family' in UK was a very different affair thirty years ago. I had no experience of the motor trade at that time, but took on the first-ever Scottish franchise at the suggestion of Maranello Concessionaires, and passed it on once it was properly established (neglect of my other businesses had to stop)!
The arrogance doesn't originate at the factory - it is down to individuals in this country (often at dealer level) who seem to drift into an unacceptable state of mind, and you will find it in the Porsche world too if you look hard enough.
I have made a few enquiries, and the real lead time for a 430 is nearer two years than four. Anyone who is absolutely serious about the 430 is welcome to email me - I will do my best to explain the situation and help if I can.
On a lighter note, the problem with Ferrari brochures is the plethora of enterprising schoolboys who pinch Dad's notepaper and send off for Ferrari literature. It got so bad in the 1970s that even the importers ran out of stock, and dealers had to print their own!
There comes a time when exasperation sets in, and I think it likely that sheer desperation has led to a situation whereby genuine customers are accidentally 'turned off' by a shortage of glossy pamphlets. These things cost a fortune to produce, and if you respond to requests from 100,000 schoolboys in disguise, plus the inevitable chancers, it makes an unwelcome addition to your operating costs.
The other factor which has come into play is the double or treble order syndrome. It is quite impossible for a dealer to read the mind of every visitor to his showroom, and the result is an artificial order backlog when someone places the same order at three dealerships. There is quite enough cash floating around these days to make a £5,000 deposit relatively painless, and more and more would-be buyers are indulging in this sort of profligacy.
Ferrari could certainly do better, but where do you find a young salesman sufficiently urbane to weigh up each customer? You don't, and I think the time has come for Ferrari/Maserati to institute their own training programme - if they haven't already done so.
>> Edited by McNab on Monday 20th December 11:59
McNab said:
Sad to read of these unsatisfactory experiences, but I'm afraid arrogance is all too common nowadays.
On a lighter note, the problem with Ferrari brochures is the plethora of enterprising schoolboys who pinch Dad's notepaper and send off for Ferrari literature. It got so bad in the 1970s that even the importers ran out of stock, and dealers had to print their own!
Ian, I understand the problem with brochure collectors and the like but there must be a better way of qualifying a potential customer.
>> Edited by DoctorD on Monday 20th December 16:23
DoctorD said:
Sad to read of these unsatisfactory experiences, but I'm afraid arrogance is all too common nowadays.
On a lighter note, the problem with Ferrari brochures is the plethora of enterprising schoolboys who pinch Dad's notepaper and send off for Ferrari literature. It got so bad in the 1970s that even the importers ran out of stock, and dealers had to print their own!
Ian, I understand the problem with brochure collectors and the like but there must be a better way of qualifying a potential customer.
I am interested in launching a register that would pre-qualify buyers of luxury items (credit checks etc) and perhaps be used for whenever someone places a letter of intent down to buy a new car. That way those that are serious can begin to be identified whilst those that are placing multiple bets can be seen as the speculators they are.
There are ways of pre-qualifying people and a number of car manafacturers already use them at call centres when people call the free phone number in TV and press ads.
It basically will use a segmentation system at either postcode or household level that will give you some idea of what people living in that area are like (both in terms of lifestage and affluence). Mercedes certainly have used this is the past to decide what promotional information you are sent when making an enquiry from a TV ad. For example when you give your postcode/address they will either send you the full on glossy brochure or just a price list and single page promotional piece.
These techniques are never 100% accurate but can go someway into identifying those who should be considered to be viable prospects.
Doctor D said:
I am interested in launching a register that would pre-qualify buyers of luxury items (credit checks etc) and perhaps be used for whenever someone places a letter of intent down to buy a new car. That way those that are serious can begin to be identified whilst those that are placing multiple bets can be seen as the speculators they are.
Steve, that is an excellent idea, and a letter to Ferrari/Maserati UK would be very much in order. You would think dealers could co-operate and share information to identify multiple orders - maybe they do, but I haven't heard it mentioned.
Perhaps they fear they might lose a sale to another dealer if they were too open - there's so much competition in this business that they tend to be rather more secretive than we would like.
As to the general attitude in showrooms both my sons (36 and 41 years old) have been incandescent after receiving what they regard as 'brush-off' treatment. One was seriously interested in a Cayenne, and the other was a prospective used Ferrari buyer. I believe both are presentable, and as far as I know (I don't ask!) both can afford the cars they look at.
You would think that sales people would have the nouce to 'capture' this type of prospect, but no, they seem to rely on previous customers alone, unless the prospect is a famous footballer or pop star. All very confusing for the enthusiasts of this world!
Why dont they make the deposit smaller say £3000 and make it none refundable. Will stop all the speculation, and those who want the car get it.
But I suppose it will stop the dealers holding all their customers cash and earning interest. Isnt there some client money rules here, that they should be paying their customers interest on the money they are holding?
But I suppose it will stop the dealers holding all their customers cash and earning interest. Isnt there some client money rules here, that they should be paying their customers interest on the money they are holding?
As you've already heard from others, long lead times are pretty normal in Ferrari-land. What most people end up doing is bung a deposit in, then forget about it and buy another model second hand in the after market. I'm not saying this is right, it's just what others do. It's swings and roundabouts you know: high demand and a long wait means a bouyant after market for the 430.
I can easily understand your frustration though, and in reality it's just an illusion of limited supply. Waiting times are only that long because you can't or won't manufacture more. Your best bet may be to source an LHD one on the continent; the smart money was on those when the 360 first came out (depreciated slower than RHD)and I suspect the same will be true of the 430. There'll be a few around in 2005 and loads of them in '06.
Kevin
I can easily understand your frustration though, and in reality it's just an illusion of limited supply. Waiting times are only that long because you can't or won't manufacture more. Your best bet may be to source an LHD one on the continent; the smart money was on those when the 360 first came out (depreciated slower than RHD)and I suspect the same will be true of the 430. There'll be a few around in 2005 and loads of them in '06.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin. I've got a friend with a Challenge Stradale and he ordered from the Factory and received it (from HR Owen) in less than 2 months (!?!). I could buy one of those but I prefer the F430, and I would want it in RHD. To be honest I don't want to buy a second hand car that someone else has specced, it's unlikely to be what I would have chosen, when I'm spending £120k+ I expect to to choose my own car AND get good customer service. I don't need to buy another Ferrari as a stop-gap as I've got plenty of other cars to play with, I just want to buy a particular car and not be messed around by the retailer. I'll keep my deposit down for the moment at least until after the F430's launch in April. I'm supposed to be invited to sample the car at this time, but I'm not holding my breath. What happens in the next six months will influence what I do next.
Thanks for all your replies.
Thanks for all your replies.
Never been a fan of Ferrari until I got my Maserati and was knocked over by the great dealer service and got to look at a few Ferrari's up close. Got my eye on a silver blue 360 spider (in my dreams). Those guys can make an 01 car look like it's just come out of the factory.
Anyone asked Meridien Modena about the 430 if so what service did you get? - I would be surprised if it were anything other than very helpful
>> Edited by sjp63 on Tuesday 21st December 12:15
Anyone asked Meridien Modena about the 430 if so what service did you get? - I would be surprised if it were anything other than very helpful
>> Edited by sjp63 on Tuesday 21st December 12:15
Hi SJP
Meridien are by far the best Car Dealership I have ever experienced.
Did you drive the 360 Convertible ? The silver / Blue ?
I took that model for a spin and was very impressed with it.
ALl their cars are 1st class IMO.
What Sales person did you deal with ?
The waiting list for the 430 there is quite long and the delay seems to vary month to month but as you mentioned , Meridien are more than helpful.
They were so good to us we are buying from them again in 2 weeks.
Meridien are by far the best Car Dealership I have ever experienced.
Did you drive the 360 Convertible ? The silver / Blue ?
I took that model for a spin and was very impressed with it.
ALl their cars are 1st class IMO.
What Sales person did you deal with ?
The waiting list for the 430 there is quite long and the delay seems to vary month to month but as you mentioned , Meridien are more than helpful.
They were so good to us we are buying from them again in 2 weeks.
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